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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 20 Minutes Not Enough, Practice Updates
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Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Mar 25 @ 12:43 PM ET
Exactly. And this only further points out the limitations and flaws in all of these stats. As FlyersSteve pointed out, every stat needs another stat to get to the right conclusion. And they all have to be looked at together in the correct context. And then be analyzed properly. And then there are the human elements that come into play with causation vs correlation and confirmation bias. And we've seen on this very forum how they can be mis-used to criticize a player unfairly.

Here's the bottom line. Give the stats the proper weight they deserve, which is very little, and watch the game. An educated and informed fan can come to the proper conclusion without them.

- MJL



jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 12:44 PM ET

- Tomahawk


FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 25 @ 12:45 PM ET
Not really. How is the QoC of any one player compiled? What is the base state that is used to compile that rating?
- MJL


It's pretty much the +/- of a player compared to the team's +/- and weighted for ice team compared to ice time of the average team mate.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 25 @ 12:45 PM ET
It's pretty much the +/- of a player compared to the team's +/- and weighted for ice team compared to ice time of the average team mate.
- FlyersSteve118



It's not really +/-, it's Corsi based is it not?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 12:46 PM ET
It's pretty much the +/- of a player compared to the team's +/- and weighted for ice team compared to ice time of the average team mate.
- FlyersSteve118


So, Steve Downie > Alex Ovechkin?
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Mar 25 @ 12:48 PM ET
So, Steve Downie > Alex Ovechkin?
- jmatchett383

In his own end? Seems that way.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 12:49 PM ET
In his own end? Seems that way.
- jak521


I'm just saying that a weighted +/- to ice time comparison would probably say that Steve Downie is a superior player compared to Alexander Ovechkin.
FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 25 @ 12:54 PM ET
I'm just saying that a weighted +/- to ice time comparison would probably say that Steve Downie is a superior player compared to Alexander Ovechkin.
- jmatchett383


The guy is -31. It can't really be that hard to score against this guy can it?
FlyersGrace
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Pronger "Play the game puffnuts!" , DE
Joined: 07.02.2012

Mar 25 @ 12:54 PM ET
Last night was my fault...
I watched the first two periods and in disgust did something else for the beginning of the third. Walked back in the room and the Kings scored. I left again in the hopes they would rally...


Alas the curse was already firmly in place.
FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 25 @ 12:55 PM ET
It's not really +/-, it's Corsi based is it not?
- MJL


There is a thing called relative corsi which is measured in the same way and QoC but gives a corsi number instead. That might be used when you see Corsi Rel QoC.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 12:55 PM ET
The guy is -31. It can't really be that hard to score against this guy can it?
- FlyersSteve118


He also doesn't play on a line with 2 premier shutdown players.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 12:56 PM ET
Last night was my fault...
I watched the first two periods and in disgust did something else for the beginning of the third. Walked back in the room and the Kings scored. I left again in the hopes they would rally...


Alas the curse was already firmly in place.

- FlyersGrace


Build a bridge out of her!
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Mar 25 @ 12:58 PM ET
The guy is -31. It can't really be that hard to score against this guy can it?
- FlyersSteve118

He has been out on the ice for 57 goals against, OR, 42% of the goals against at ES.
twotoekenn
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: perkasie, PA
Joined: 12.16.2009

Mar 25 @ 1:00 PM ET


He's the cat from Red Dwarf.

"How am I looking? I'm looking nice!"


- wolfhounds


"I'm so excited all six of my nipples are tingling! "
FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 25 @ 1:02 PM ET
He has been out on the ice for 57 goals against, OR, 42% of the goals against at ES.
- jak521


Most players couldn't puck that many pucks in their own net if they were shooting on their own goalie.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 25 @ 1:03 PM ET
There is a thing called relative corsi which is measured in the same way and QoC but gives a corsi number instead. That might be used when you see Corsi Rel QoC.
- FlyersSteve118



I'm aware of all of the subsets of Corsi. Bottom line is that QoC is badly flawed.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Mar 25 @ 1:07 PM ET
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=711109
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 25 @ 1:08 PM ET
"I'm so excited all six of my nipples are tingling! "
- twotoekenn




I need to start rewatching that series.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 25 @ 1:20 PM ET
Jason Lewis blog with a very nice piece on his experience in Philly as a Kings fan.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=58913
-davies-
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: A medical emergency involving you.
Joined: 08.05.2013

Mar 25 @ 1:24 PM ET


I need to start rewatching that series.

- wolfhounds


i got it for christmas, i need to sit down and have a marathon
Flyersgod
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.07.2013

Mar 25 @ 1:56 PM ET
I'd like to see the flyers use MacDonald more on the pp. Let's see what he's got before we give him a bunch of money.

I like him so far. Has helped out the d a ton.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 25 @ 1:58 PM ET
i got it for christmas, i need to sit down and have a marathon
- -davies-


I think you should apologize to the Pens fan
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 25 @ 1:59 PM ET
I'd like to see the flyers use MacDonald more on the pp. Let's see what he's got before we give him a bunch of money.

I like him so far. Has helped out the d a ton.

- Flyersgod


Hes on the 2nd unit. I don't see a place for him on the top unit.
SchennBros
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gettysburg, PA
Joined: 08.06.2012

Mar 25 @ 2:02 PM ET
Advanced stats people =
Flyersgod
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.07.2013

Mar 25 @ 2:03 PM ET
Hes on the 2nd unit. I don't see a place for him on the top unit.
- PhillySportsGuy


Yeah...

Just feel like I never see him on the PP. Maybe cause the second unit stinks or something...
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