I think the rarest are the players who produce points, but don't kill their team defensively.

A player doesn't get to -31 without being bad defensively. Use every advanced stat you want, but no amount of bad luck or bad line mates or bad match ups should result in "one of the best players in the game" being that bad of a +/- player.
- PhillySportsGuy

I would say a part of this as to do with not getting a "plus" on the PP. I would bet if you could give a "plus" for PP then his +/- wouldnt be nearly as poor.

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Alex Ovechkin 2009-10... +45
- Tomahawk

Hes gotten a lot worse defensively. He doesn't even skate hard on back checks and his coverage is very lackadaisical.

Underrated - Mezsaros
Overrated - macdonald

Egg on homer's face

Being the worst 700 goal scorer in a group of 9 guys in NHL history, is like being the ugliest super model.

I admit he's got some quirks to his game that I don't like. Defense responsibility, not busting it on every shift, that said, the hardest thing to do in the NHL is put the puck in the net. Over the last decade no one has done it better than Ovechkin.
- PLindbergh31

Again, like I said, I'd love him to be on the Flyers. He's a superstar player and is (arguably) the best goal scorer in the NHL.

That said, his offensive game might not be enough to offset his game, and that may prohibit his team from performing to its best. So, let me ask you, would you rather have:

1) A guy who scores 35 goals, is well-rounded enough to be on the ice in the final minute of a game with a lead, and is a decent backchecker

2) A guy who scores 50 goals and is a defensive liability

Player #1 makes more money and gets more accolades. Player #2 helps you win more games.

Not a Monty Python fan, eh?

EDIT: As for autocorrect, don't get me started. It ruins everything.
- BulliesPhan87

I am. I live in a world where no one knows them.

Didn't even occur to me!

I would say a part of this as to do with not getting a "plus" on the PP. I would bet if you could give a "plus" for PP then his +/- wouldnt be nearly as poor.
- SchennBros

Yeah. I'm sure the rest of the leagues would be a lot better too. I imagine Giroux's would be pretty high as well and Krejci may be a +65.

What it comes down to for me is this. Take Steve Yzerman for example. Big time point producer in his early career. 150 pts or so a Season. Tremendous offensive player. But it wasn't until he dedicated himself to the all around game and made himself into a top 2 way player, that he truly became a top player. And learned to play the game the right way.
Now I'm not expecting Ovechkin to turn into a Selke level forward like Yzerman did. But you can't tell me that if Ovechkin improved his play away from the puck, that the Caps wouldn't benefit from that.
- MJL

Ditto Mike Modano in same line as Yzerman. Sacrificed some points but became a better player by becoming an all-around guy. Once upon a time, Modano was known as a scorer but a defensive liability. Hitchcock changed that.

That was Bergeron's 3rd season and he was on a bad team. Look at Ovechkin's +/- compared with the rest of his team. His is way worse than anyone else.
- PhillySportsGuy

It is, because fully half of his production is on the PP, where he doesn't get a + for his scoring.

Ovechkin has been on the ice for 96 Washington goals, and for 70 against. His GF%(which is goals for %) is at 57.8, which puts him second on the team, behind Brouwer, who is 0.2% higher at 58%

Both Datsyuk & Bergeron have scored 30 goals one time in their careers.

I agree, all other things being even, I'd take them before Ovechkin. But if I already had Toews, then give me Ovechkin
- Jsaquella

That is incorrect, concerning Datsyuk.

Underrated - Mezsaros
Overrated - macdonald

Egg on homer's face
- funmaster18

7/10 solid post; would chuckle again

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When playing operation, what should I take out first? The knee or the head? #askneal

James, do you get the biggest thrill out of kneeing someone in the head or cross checking them in the head? #AskNeal

Big fan Mr. Neal, one question, how do you deal, emotionally and physically, with Sean Couturier's beard? Other than blindsiding it #AskNeal

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- feelingkettle

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Underrated - Mezsaros
Overrated - macdonald

Egg on homer's face
- funmaster18

Agreed! Since we are talking +/- what is MacDonald's +/- since joining the Flyers? And where is the offense? 1 assist in 8 games? Stiff!

Both Datsyuk & Bergeron have scored 30 goals one time in their careers.

I agree, all other things being even, I'd take them before Ovechkin. But if I already had Toews, then give me Ovechkin
- Jsaquella

If I had Toews, I would take Bergeron or Datsyuk in a second. This is assuming age doesn't matter.

Give me Datsyuk and Bergeron, who will (if healthy) pot 30 goals and can stop one-trick ponies like Ovechkin over the guy who scores a lot of goals but can't stop a player well.
- jmatchett383

I dont care if you have Ovechkin, Crosby, or Datsyuk, you have to build the right team around your star players depending on thier strenghts and weaknesses. If you have the right players playing with Ovechkin, then there is no problem having him on your team.

How hard did you laugh when Adam Banks had his wrist slashed by Iceland? #AskNeal

Sammy Carchidi @BroadStBullpoop
Blackeyed peas are just regular peas that have been elbowed by James Neal #AskNeal
- BulliesPhan87

Hes gotten a lot worse defensively. He doesn't even skate hard on back checks and his coverage is very lackadaisical.
- PhillySportsGuy

Common, that's BS. He had Backstrom Green and Semin scoring like 90+ goals in support that year, that was the difference. Those Caps teams from back in the day were damned scary... if McPhee did a better job of choosing support players and hiring coaches to complement his roster, they wouldn't be a fringe team today, despite OV's two-way issues.

How hard did you laugh when Adam Banks had his wrist slashed by Iceland? #AskNeal

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Blackeyed peas are just regular peas that have been elbowed by James Neal #AskNeal
- BulliesPhan87

7/10 solid post; would chuckle again
- Giroux_Is_God

Again, like I said, I'd love him to be on the Flyers. He's a superstar player and is (arguably) the best goal scorer in the NHL.

That said, his offensive game might not be enough to offset his game, and that may prohibit his team from performing to its best. So, let me ask you, would you rather have:

1) A guy who scores 35 goals, is well-rounded enough to be on the ice in the final minute of a game with a lead, and is a decent backchecker

2) A guy who scores 50 goals and is a defensive liability

Player #1 makes more money and gets more accolades. Player #2 helps you win more games.
- jmatchett383

How many defensive stalwarts up front are there that score 35 goals per season?

7/10 solid post; would chuckle again
- Giroux_Is_God

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Did you take the fine money from your cat fund?
#AskNeal

Do you use a nutcracker at holiday parties? Or do you just use your knee/elbow? #AskNeal

What it comes down to for me is this. Take Steve Yzerman for example. Big time point producer in his early career. 150 pts or so a Season. Tremendous offensive player. But it wasn't until he dedicated himself to the all around game and made himself into a top 2 way player, that he truly became a top player. And learned to play the game the right way.
Now I'm not expecting Ovechkin to turn into a Selke level forward like Yzerman did. But you can't tell me that if Ovechkin improved his play away from the puck, that the Caps wouldn't benefit from that.
- MJL

I agree with your premise: Certainly, the Caps benefit if Ovechkin is a better defensive player. Your analogy is correct.

But they've won President's Trophies during his tenure, too. Is he really and truly hurting them, as a franchise?

I just don't think he is. I'm not saying he's helping them as much as Yzerman did when he changed his game, but is he truly the worst 700-goal scorer ever?

I just don't see that. I like guys like Patrice Bergeron and you certainly need them to win, but Ovechkin, as has been noted, isn't the only guy out there when they get scored upon -- Nicklas Backstrom could bear down a bit more in the D-Zone, too.

Mark Howe '85-'86... +85
- 77rams

But even there, there is context.

Howe was +85 and partner McCrimmon was +83. They played about 30-35 minutes a game, every game and the staggering +/- doesn't even reflect the power play.

Then look at the rest of the defensemen that year who played the other 25-30 minutes. Marsh was even and EVERY other D-man on the team (whether regulars, semi-regulars or short-term guys for more than 1-2 games) were minuses.

While a plus-minus number can be deceptive, in that particular case, it told you exactly what you needed to know.

FWIW, Nicklas Backstrom, who plays on the same team as Ovechkin, has less goals but the same amount of points as Ovechkin, is a -20. But not even looking at his +/-, Backstrom is a player who, while not being a Selke candidate, at least gives an honest effort defensively. Personally, I'd rather have him that Ovechkin.