The Sharks drafted Pat Falloon ahead of Scott Niedermayer
- Jsaquella

fat balloon

If Craig Button is to be relied upon, Morin was their guy at 11 all along. If one feels that the whiteboard in their pre-draft meetings on "Flight Plan" was accurate, Morin was their 7th rated guy, behind the obvious big 5 and Sean Monahan
- Jsaquella

I am inclined to believe one of their more influential scouts was enamored with Morin and convinced the rest he was the guy and Homer trusted his scouting and went with it.

If Craig Button is to be relied upon, Morin was their guy at 11 all along. If one feels that the whiteboard in their pre-draft meetings on "Flight Plan" was accurate, Morin was their 7th rated guy, behind the obvious big 5 and Sean Monahan
- Jsaquella

They clearly didn't target him because of the points he's put up in previous seasons, but obviously they saw something the really like in him. I hope they're right.

that proposed deal that someone said was floating around of pouliot, bennett, despres, and a first makes me absolutely sick
- stayinthefnnet

That's incorrect. Rossi said that the Pens best would likely be Pouliot, 1st and Sutter(maybe Bennett instead). He said they might expand it to 4 pieces if the Canucks added another roster player(I'm assuming he's talking about one of Hansen/Higgins/Richardson, to bolster your weak bottom 6), but said that it was more likely at the draft if the deal is that big.

I personally think Kesler moves at the draft.

I am inclined to believe one of their more influential scouts was enamored with Morin and convinced the rest he was the guy and Homer trusted his scouting and went with it.
- exlund

That seems to be a trend of sorts in Philly. A past example would be Simon Gagne. Simon Nolet stumped for Gags when he was on the board, and Clarke agreed.

I just know that weeks before the draft, Button was calling Morin to Philly and on the first episode of the Flyers Flight Plan web show they showed the Flyers board, and they had Morin listed 7th.

Whether that was one scout driving the discussion or a group decision, it was apparently made well in advance

Yeah, you seriously missed the point.

We're not talking about being able to produce points at the top level... we're talking about being top-4 caliber period, or making the NHL period.

Guys like Vlasic, Hamhuis, Gorges... they were elite point producers in junior... that puck skill has allowed them to crack NHL top-4's, even if they haven't translated their point production to the pros.

Guys who couldn't put up the points in junior tend to be like Mark Fistric, Ryan Parent, Luke Schenn and the like.
- Tomahawk

Luke Schenn has been a top 4 defenseman in the NHL and I think that he will be again. I haven't missed anything. And I think comparing Luke Schenn to Ryan Parent and Mark Fistric misses the boat badly.
This is so far off I don't even know where to start. Let's just say that the Flyers didn't draft Morin with the 11th pick if they feel he's a question mark if he can even become a top 4 NHL defenseman. Nor would they have done so if Morin actually does fit the profile being given here.
They obviously feel he has a great deal of upside.

That's incorrect. Rossi said that the Pens best would likely be Pouliot, 1st and Sutter(maybe Bennett instead). He said they might expand it to 4 pieces if the Canucks added another roster player(I'm assuming he's talking about one of Hansen/Higgins/Richardson, to bolster your weak bottom 6), but said that it was more likely at the draft if the deal is that big.

I personally think Kesler moves at the draft.
- Nucker101

i still think value wise that pouliot first and sutter deal is pretty damn close. if the canucks are set on that bona fide forward prospect. the pens simply dont have it.

if im going all in on kesler, id rather it be now than the draft. i think the pens have too many issues this year to make a serious run, but id want the most possible time with the investment as possible. who knows. maybe he could be the difference.

That's incorrect. Rossi said that the Pens best would likely be Pouliot, 1st and Sutter(maybe Bennett instead). He said they might expand it to 4 pieces if the Canucks added another roster player(I'm assuming he's talking about one of Hansen/Higgins/Richardson, to bolster your weak bottom 6), but said that it was more likely at the draft if the deal is that big.

I personally think Kesler moves at the draft.
- Nucker101

and youd get absolutely no complaints out of me if somehow hansen was involved.

That's incorrect. Rossi said that the Pens best would likely be Pouliot, 1st and Sutter(maybe Bennett instead). He said they might expand it to 4 pieces if the Canucks added another roster player(I'm assuming he's talking about one of Hansen/Higgins/Richardson, to bolster your weak bottom 6), but said that it was more likely at the draft if the deal is that big.

I personally think Kesler moves at the draft.
- Nucker101

The first Rossi article I saw said Sutter, two draft picks(believed to be 1st & 3rd) and the Canucks choice of Despres or Dumoulin. Obviously that doesn't fit a ton of the Canucks stated or visible needs

The first Rossi article I saw said Sutter, two draft picks(believed to be 1st & 3rd) and the Canucks choice of Despres or Dumoulin. Obviously that doesn't fit a ton of the Canucks stated or visible needs
- Jsaquella

nope. i have no problem admitting that if thats the issue with the offer. but then it hinges on what else is possibly being offered, combined with the actual (as opposed to perceived) pressure on Van to move him.

nope. i have no problem admitting that if thats the issue with the offer. but then it hinges on what else is possibly being offered, combined with the actual (as opposed to perceived) pressure on Van to move him.
- stayinthefnnet

There's really no pressure on the Canucks to do anything. He's got two years left on his deal, he'll be able to join the new team without pressure of jumping in at the TDL and could easily be moved at the draft.

The first Rossi article I saw said Sutter, two draft picks(believed to be 1st & 3rd) and the Canucks choice of Despres or Dumoulin. Obviously that doesn't fit a ton of the Canucks stated or visible needs
- Jsaquella

I saw that as well, Rossi's tone changed pretty quickly today though which is weird. Gillis would get run out of town if he accepted that. I'd hate to package Hansen into this deal, still realtvely young, good contract and an ideal third liner

There's really no pressure on the Canucks to do anything. He's got two years left on his deal, he'll be able to join the new team without pressure of jumping in at the TDL and could easily be moved at the draft.
- Jsaquella

That's my thinking as well.

There's really no pressure on the Canucks to do anything. He's got two years left on his deal, he'll be able to join the new team without pressure of jumping in at the TDL and could easily be moved at the draft.
- Jsaquella

i understand that some teams may be more interested at the draft than midseason when the cap is easier to maneuver. but if i am a team in the hunt now, i would offer more now than i would at the draft due to the additional stretch run.

I saw that as well, Rossi's tone changed pretty quickly today though which is weird. Gillis would get run out of town if he accepted that. I'd hate to package Hansen into this deal, still realtvely young, good contract and an ideal third liner
- Nucker101

Yeah, it could be that Rossi was being used by an agent or team to attempt to drive conversation.

It happens. Agents certainly will leak info to help their clients get more money or spur a trade if their guy wants out.

That's my thinking as well.
- Nucker101

my perspective is based on the canucks actively trying to move him. if this was just the pens randomly approaching the canucks mid season with an out of the blue offer, then i change my tune slightly in the evaluation of potential deals.

should vancouver consider themselves under no pressure whatsoever to move him, then i probably wouldnt accept that sutter deal either. even if it is in the ballpark of fair reason, id hold out and wait until either 1. someone gave me a deal i couldnt refuse or 2. the need to trade him became so pressing that you take fair value when its offered.

Let's just say that the Flyers didn't draft Morin with the 11th pick if they feel he's a question mark if he can even become a top 4 NHL defenseman. Nor would they have done so if Morin actually does fit the profile being given here.
They obviously feel he has a great deal of upside.
- MJL

We're talking post-draft growth and production... not pre-draft. Pre-draft, most of these kids aren't playing top minutes and getting prime special teams roles yet, since they're still behind the previous drafts' prospects on the depth chart.

Pre-draft, it's still by and large a prediction game for most prospects. Post-draft is when things start getting interesting, and the wheat starts separating from the chaff.

Yeah, it could be that Rossi was being used by an agent or team to attempt to drive conversation.

It happens. Agents certainly will leak info to help their clients get more money or spur a trade if their guy wants out.
- Jsaquella

Damien Cox @DamoSpin
Starting to sound like its Philly or Pitt for Kesler. Van Province reporting Kesler won't waive for Columbus. And he's a Buckeye grad.

Hockey Buzz Eklund @Eklund
Are the Flyers in on Kesler? No, but if the Penguins WANT Kesler, the Flyers will play the game to make sure they give up ALOT for him.

Not the most reliable sources, but FWIW


Thank you Homer, you dity bastard

i understand that some teams may be more interested at the draft than midseason when the cap is easier to maneuver. but if i am a team in the hunt now, i would offer more now than i would at the draft due to the additional stretch run.
- stayinthefnnet

That's obviously what the Pens are hoping, but in the summer there will be less teams with cap issues who can maybe drive the bidding higher, plus the Canucks will know where the picks will be if any are involved.

Damien Cox @DamoSpin
Starting to sound like its Philly or Pitt for Kesler. Van Province reporting Kesler won't waive for Columbus. And he's a Buckeye grad.

Hockey Buzz Eklund @Eklund
Are the Flyers in on Kesler? No, but if the Penguins WANT Kesler, the Flyers will play the game to make sure they give up ALOT for him.

Not the most reliable sources, but FWIW


Thank you Homer, you dity bastard
- Nucker101

Dude spent one season there... I love how suddenly that year should hold a ton of weight, lol.

That's obviously what the Pens are hoping, but in the summer there will be less teams with cap issues who can maybe drive the bidding higher, plus the Canucks will know where the picks will be if any are involved.
- Jsaquella

true. but then you have to wonder just how much control kesler will have in deciding his destination. i dont know the full extent of his NTC. that could play a role in depressing value as well. if he has the ability to essentially whittle it to a choice few, then the cap flexibility of other teams wont have that much of an impact if he wouldnt waive to go there any way.

Damien Cox @DamoSpin
Starting to sound like its Philly or Pitt for Kesler. Van Province reporting Kesler won't waive for Columbus. And he's a Buckeye grad.

Hockey Buzz Eklund @Eklund
Are the Flyers in on Kesler? No, but if the Penguins WANT Kesler, the Flyers will play the game to make sure they give up ALOT for him.

Not the most reliable sources, but FWIW


Thank you Homer, you dity bastard
- Nucker101

if it got to the point that the flyers were willing to move schenn, laughton, and a first or something like that, i would gladly back away from the table and let them have him. in my opinion, he fills more of a need for the pens than he does the flyers, and the flyers will miss those assets more than the pens will theirs.

Yeah, that's all that anybody is saying, and that's a lot more of a pragmatic view than poop like Panotch's been throwing out... casual Pronger comparisons that aren't rooted in anything but "somebody told me".
- Tomahawk

I can see how some can draw comparisons to Pronger in terms of his size and his mean streak...two things you really can't teach. So yeah, he's got that goin' for him.

We're talking post-draft growth and production... not pre-draft. Pre-draft, most of these kids aren't playing top minutes and getting prime special teams roles yet, since they're still behind the previous drafts' prospects on the depth chart.

Pre-draft, it's by and large a prediction game for most prospects. Post-draft is when things start getting interesting, and the wheat starts separating from the chaff.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. So then I wonder why a player like Hamhuis, who played 4 Junior Seasons is being compared to an 18 year old who is in his second year of Junior Hockey. Or with Vlasic, who played 3 Junior Seasons, and really didn't put up top offensive numbers until the 3rd season. So let's compare apples to apples, instead of already labeling what Morin is going to be, based on his low offensive output to this point.

Damien Cox @DamoSpin
Starting to sound like its Philly or Pitt for Kesler. Van Province reporting Kesler won't waive for Columbus. And he's a Buckeye grad.

Hockey Buzz Eklund @Eklund
Are the Flyers in on Kesler? No, but if the Penguins WANT Kesler, the Flyers will play the game to make sure they give up ALOT for him.

Not the most reliable sources, but FWIW


Thank you Homer, you dity bastard
- Nucker101

They've done it in the past. Why do you think the Rangers gave up 2nd & 3rd round picks for a guy with a $3.65mm cap hit and ZERO goals?