Yeah I'm not a longtime suffering Seahawks fan. They're kinda like my Flyers.
- golfingsince

Ive been following seahawks since the lockout a decade ago, not a hardcore fan but loved the shaun alexander days!

They only got 6 didn't they?
- docmorgan

TD and a safety

I think the risk factor in the Schneider deal was infinitely lessened by the fact that Luongo was waiting in the wings to reclaim the start spot. MG knew that he had that cushion when he made the trade, so again I never envisioned that trade as having a high element of risk to either the team's performance this season nor Gillis' job.

And I hate to say this man but there are so many deals/players that I have advocated for Van getting publicly on this site where the player ended up making good somewhere else that it's really got my opinion of what game Gillis is viewing at the low threshold that it is today. Am I lucky that often? I'm not a hockey guru and this is not my career, but just a little bit of insight goes a long way in player assessment and team needs .

I do get your points but I also expect more from a GM in a hockey healthy market. Gillis was a bit of a goon as a player. It often appears he reads the game with the same level of astuteness as a GM.
- AlexF

We didn't really know what was going on with Lou at the time. There was immediate speculation that he wasn't happy about the deal.

I'd say his status made it even more of a risk.

It's all well and good to say "I would have done this" and say it worked out for the team that actually made the move, but it's much easier to say that from the safety of a message board.

There's absolutely no risk or underlying factors for you. You're job isn't on the line.

I can also remember a few of your player suggestions from the summer, and not every one has worked out peachy like you suggest.

Brunner isn't exactly lighting it up, and Mueller (think you suggested him, but I could be wrong) is putting up points in the Swiss league comparable to Canucks' undrafted prospect Ronalds Kenins.

And a some of the moves Gillis did make have helped this team--Santorelli, Richardson, and Stanton.

Again, it's much easier to criticize from the safe confines of a message board, without any risk...

Yup.

But those were both moves that Gillis was almost universally criticized for, which is certainly a reason to play it safe on another deal that could potentially see a young impact player leave the team for entirely question-mark players.

I think Gillis's grapes were drained of "bold" juice after his previous failings.

Also, your point about adding to the future core is valid, but at the time Gillis was likely still considering the Canucks contenders, or was at least advertising them as such to the owners.

Trading Edler for prospects doesn't exactly send that message.
- Fosco

We'll never know for sure but that's pretty scary if that was his sales pitch to the Aquillinis, who aren't idiots. And if Gillis really did believe that then he wasn't watching the same team we've been watching.

Anyway, to 5 and a Game's point, now that the failings are all well-exposed it will be interesting to see if Gillis is capable of changing the one and only approach he's ever had as a GM: stock up on depth, stand pat, patience.

I called that Kick off return to start the half lol... Seen it happen before being a Vikings fan

Doubt that he gets moved. I think either Tanev or Bieksa could have a pretty serious injury or a d-man is on the move.
- Nucker101

I'd be surprised if Bieksa didn't have a small fracture in his foot. Both should be back pretty close to the restart after the Olympics, so they shouldn't miss a tonne of games.

My guess is the Canucks trade a D-man before the trade deadline.

TD and a safety
- golfingsince

You can argue any defensive play (fumble recovery, INT) that leads to a TD/FG can give the D some credit!

They might have the greatest defence in the history of the game. Denver had a record setting offensive season and Seattle's D made them look like a Div. 2 college team.
- fiveandagame

Greatest ever? No way! The Niners were 20 yards from beating that D, take away the bonehead throw. And as far as the donkey who said the Niners window is closing should put the pipe down. Wow!

We'll never know for sure but that's pretty scary if that was his sales pitch to the Aquillinis, who aren't idiots. And if Gillis really did believe that then he wasn't watching the same team we've been watching.

Anyway, to 5 and a Game's point, now that the failings are all well-exposed it will be interesting to see if Gillis is capable of changing the one and only approach he's ever had as a GM: stock up on depth, stand pat, patience.
- AlexF

It's Gillis's job to market this team as a contender. If he doesn't, he likely shortens his tenure as GM by admitting that a rebuild is necessary. Trading Schneider and deciding to stick with Lou supports this.

Again, the job security is something us armchair GMs don't have to worry about when making our proposals and critiques.

Greatest ever? No way! The Niners were 20 yards from beating that D, take away the bonehead throw. And as far as the donkey who said the Niners window is closing should put the pipe down. Wow!
- whipper334

Well being in the same DIV as Seattle has turned them into a wild card team.... I would say that is a decline.

We didn't really know what was going on with Lou at the time. There was immediate speculation that he wasn't happy about the deal.

I'd say his status made it even more of a risk.

It's all well and good to say "I would have done this" and say it worked out for the team that actually made the move, but it's much easier to say that from the safety of a message board.

There's absolutely no risk or underlying factors for you. You're job isn't on the line.

I can also remember a few of your player suggestions from the summer, and not every one has worked out peachy like you suggest.

Brunner isn't exactly lighting it up, and Mueller (think you suggested him, but I could be wrong) is putting up points in the Swiss league comparable to Canucks' undrafted prospect Ronalds Kenins.

And a some of the moves Gillis did make have helped this team--Santorelli, Richardson, and Stanton.

Again, it's much easier to criticize from the safe confines of a message board, without any risk...
- Fosco

Of course it is. And thanks for bolding your entire post to make that point, one which if in fact followed by all internet board posters would likely eliminate posts by 70-80%.

Every GM's ass is on the line and we've all seen others make more insightful deals then MG has. To be sure those can lead to mixed results but job security hasn't stopped them trying to do what they think can help the team.

And how much is Gillis making again? GMs, like players, I don't think are beyond a bit of criticism from some of the their fanbases any more than an Apple or a Costco might be from their customers.

Well being in the same DIV as Seattle has turned them into a wild card team.... I would say that is a decline.
- SMP8719

Yeah 12-4 is definitely on the decline.

Yup.

But those were both moves that Gillis was almost universally criticized for, which is certainly a reason to play it safe on another deal that could potentially see a young impact player leave the team for entirely question-mark players.

I think Gillis's grapes were drained of "bold" juice after his previous failings.

Also, your point about adding to the future core is valid, but at the time Gillis was likely still considering the Canucks contenders, or was at least advertising them as such to the owners.

Trading Edler for prospects doesn't exactly send that message.
- Fosco

I think this D is really good but we need a shakeup. Ideally I would like to see Hammer traded for some offensive help. I think this d core is young can become really good. We need some help on the defensive side of things. We have too many offensive minded D. I think Stanton can be a younger and cheaper Hammius. I would hate to see edler traded even with his gaffes. This year is a year from transition. The whole team is going from AV style over the last 7 years to play Torts style and it is given there will be adjustment period. I honestly don't get tis trade at all. We will not have 9 D with 1 way contract and with only Alberts on LTIR. If we trade a D now we will not get full value as we would during the TDL. If we wait till then, Webber and Diaz will the RFA and UFA respectively. Why trade a roster player(as crappy as Wiese) for a log jam in D only to lose that player in the off season. It would have been better off to trade weise for 7th rounder. That give us a shot at having a future player for Comets.

Greatest ever? No way! The Niners were 20 yards from beating that D, take away the bonehead throw. And as far as the donkey who said the Niners window is closing should put the pipe down. Wow!
- whipper334

You could at least argue greatest ever

If that OL played even half decent yesterday, Lynch would have rushed for at least 80+ yards. 3 holding calls that took away 30 rushing yards from RW and a 25 yard run by Turbin.

OL plays an "A" game ... this game is even more dominating. Should be a scary thought for the rest of the league

Gillis is simply trying to squeak into the playoffs. I dont think he has any notion that we are any type of contenders, but for a rebuild to happen the revenue from another first round exit is better than not making it at all. Hence the deal we just saw.

The writing is that he is going to wait until after the season to make any real moves unless something falls in his lap. Taking away $500k in cap space in this trade (going from $750k to $1.25M) says that he is going to wait since this contract will come off the books at the end of the year as a UFA.

Was Vancouver the one team allowed to talk to Moulson's agent? That would be stupid unless it is for a short term deal with a decent cap hit. If you read Eks (e4) and TSN said one team was allowed to talk to him I would speculate GMMG is looking at him to pair with the Sedins. But this makes no sense if he is trying to do a rebuild of any sort. The oilers should be in the east at they are probably a great trading partner for the canucks.

You could at least argue greatest ever

If that OL played even half decent yesterday, Lynch would have rushed for at least 80+ yards. 3 holding calls that took away 30 rushing yards from RW and a 25 yard run by Turbin.

OL plays an "A" game ... this game is even more dominating. Should be a scary thought for the rest of the league
- kneughter

I really don't think they approach the 1985 Chicago Bears D, but they did have a heck of a game last night at the most important time.

Of course it is. And thanks for bolding your entire post to make that point, one which if in fact followed by all internet board posters would likely eliminate posts by 70-80%.

Every GM's ass is on the line and we've all seen others make more insightful deals then MG has. To be sure those can lead to mixed results but job security hasn't stopped them trying to do what they think can help the team.

And how much is Gillis making again? GMs, like players, I don't think are beyond a bit of criticism from some of the their fanbases any more than an Apple or a Costco might be from their customers.
- AlexF

I think it's pretty obvious the "bold" was a mistake--had code in the quote so it bolded the whole message...

I'm not denying your points.

I'm just acknowledging that there was considerable risk in that deal and that MG was playing it safe for reasons that many of us fans don't always consider.

Gillis is in a tenuous position because he made moves like that in the past that didn't work out.

I understand why he played it safe.

And I still think the Canucks should expect more of an impact player than Nyquist in return for Edler.

The other pieces in that deal are kind of "meh."

Now if DET had agreed to include the 1st that ended up being Mantha, then that's another story.

Other GMs are in different situations than the Canucks/Gillis and have different assets to work with, so I don't think you can make any broad comparisons like that.

Gillis needs/needed to hit a homerun with any Edler deal, because he's one of the only really valuable, expendable roster assets.

At the time, that deal wasn't a homerun.

It does look better considering the season Nyquist is having...

Finally, reset complete.
- golfingsince

Mindset added.

They might have the greatest defence in the history of the game. Denver had a record setting offensive season and Seattle's D made them look like a Div. 2 college team.
- fiveandagame

A buddy of mine posted this a week ago. Everyone thought this was a feeble attempt to justify a large bet on Seahawks. Hindsight.





here is why seahawks will clean out broncos.

this is going to be the coldest Super Bowl ever and that has to favor the Seahawks. It’ll favor the Seahawks even more if there are gusty winds.

Let’s not forget that the Broncos defense is pure garbage. Week after week, they were torched but their league-leading offense masked their deficiencies. The Broncos surrendered 51 points to Dallas, 39 to Indy, 28 to K.C., 28 to Tennessee and 34 to New England. That’s just five games and the Seahawks didn’t give up that many points combined in their final 13 games of the year including playoffs.

When we look at the schedules of these teams throughout the year, what we see is a Broncos team that had it rather easy. Their best win was against New England in the AFC Championship? Kansas City? Truthfully, the Broncos played weakling after weakling that included games against Oakland (twice) Baltimore, the Giants, Jacksonville, Washington, Houston, Tennessee and Philadelphia. Of course Manning is going to put up big numbers against that group. The Broncos toughest games this year were against Dallas, Indy, New England and Kansas City. They lost to the Patriots in the regular season, they lost to Indy and needed a minor miracle to defeat the 'Boys. Denver also defeated K.C both times, by 10 and 7 points respectively. Meanwhile, the Seahawks played San Fran three times, New Orleans twice and Carolina once. They went 4-1 in those games with only loss occurring in San Fran by two points.

Seattle is the 16th team to appear in the Super Bowl as the squad that allowed the fewest points during the regular season. The previous 15 that accomplished the same feat are 12-3 in the championship game. Peyton Manning led the NFL in passing. A regular season passing leader has NEVER won a Super Bowl and only four have been in the SB. They all lost, Dan Marino in 1984, Kurt Warner in 2001, Rich Gannon in 2002 and Tom Brady in 2007. enough said. im taking seatle - OUTRIGHT BABY

I really don't think they approach the 1985 Chicago Bears D, but they did have a heck of a game last night at the most important time.
- AlexF

I wasnt even born yet, so (frank) them!

BEST EVER

A buddy of mine posted this a week ago. Everyone thought this was a feeble attempt to justify a large bet on Seahawks. Hindsight.





here is why seahawks will clean out broncos.

this is going to be the coldest Super Bowl ever and that has to favor the Seahawks. It’ll favor the Seahawks even more if there are gusty winds.

Let’s not forget that the Broncos defense is pure garbage. Week after week, they were torched but their league-leading offense masked their deficiencies. The Broncos surrendered 51 points to Dallas, 39 to Indy, 28 to K.C., 28 to Tennessee and 34 to New England. That’s just five games and the Seahawks didn’t give up that many points combined in their final 13 games of the year including playoffs.

When we look at the schedules of these teams throughout the year, what we see is a Broncos team that had it rather easy. Their best win was against New England in the AFC Championship? Kansas City? Truthfully, the Broncos played weakling after weakling that included games against Oakland (twice) Baltimore, the Giants, Jacksonville, Washington, Houston, Tennessee and Philadelphia. Of course Manning is going to put up big numbers against that group. The Broncos toughest games this year were against Dallas, Indy, New England and Kansas City. They lost to the Patriots in the regular season, they lost to Indy and needed a minor miracle to defeat the 'Boys. Denver also defeated K.C both times, by 10 and 7 points respectively. Meanwhile, the Seahawks played San Fran three times, New Orleans twice and Carolina once. They went 4-1 in those games with only loss occurring in San Fran by two points.

Seattle is the 16th team to appear in the Super Bowl as the squad that allowed the fewest points during the regular season. The previous 15 that accomplished the same feat are 12-3 in the championship game. Peyton Manning led the NFL in passing. A regular season passing leader has NEVER won a Super Bowl and only four have been in the SB. They all lost, Dan Marino in 1984, Kurt Warner in 2001, Rich Gannon in 2002 and Tom Brady in 2007. enough said. im taking seatle - OUTRIGHT BABY
- Linden_4_Capt

Ya my dad said pretty much the same thing (except including stats)

I give credit to those who said it wasnt even going to be close, cause even I didnt feel that way

I'm not denying your points.

I'm just acknowledging that there was considerable risk in that deal and that MG was playing it safe for reasons that many of us fans don't always consider.

Gillis is in a tenuous position because he made moves like that in the past that didn't work out.

I understand why he played it safe.

And I still think the Canucks should expect more of an impact player than Nyquist in return for Edler.

The other pieces in that deal are kind of "meh."

Now if DET had agreed to include the 1st that ended up being Mantha, then that's another story.

Other GMs are in different situations than the Canucks/Gillis and have different assets to work with, so I don't think you can make any broad comparisons like that.

Gillis needs/needed to hit a homerun with any Edler deal, because he's one of the only really valuable, expendable roster assets.

At the time, that deal wasn't a homerun.

It does look better considering the season Nyquist is having...
- Fosco

Tatar is also having a good season. Now that the two of them are getting playing time with the big club on scoring lines they're showcasing the talent that many scouting reports were claiming they had. The original deal I understood to be Tatar, Smith, and Sheehan which I agree was a bit dubious. But with Nyquist in place of Sheehan...I just think it's madness. I read several publications over the summer that were claiming Nyquist was a bonafide top 6 talent was only held back by Detroit's cautious approach and their logjam of vets.

Anyway water under the bridge. One thing I will note also, and to your point, is that we never really have full insight into the conversations taking place in the back end. There are often shackles placed on situations that might not be readily apparent to the outsider. It's possible Gillis is feeling some of those itching his ankles right now.

Diaz has barely played during the Habs recent slump and there's a reason. Soft as wet, one ply toilet paper. Afraid of corners. Can't move anyone. Plus he stopped making good offensive plays. Beaulieu was given his spot and is doing more than Diaz did. I'm very happy to be rid of him for a 4th line checker with size and experience. Oh and he's waaaaay cheaper and is a rfa. Diaz can be a 4-5-6 d man and play 2nd PP IF he finds his game again. It just wasn't happening at all anymore after his concussion. It's like he is a completely dif player free that injury. Now we have almost 7 mill in deadline space
- SmielmaN

Diaz sounds like Torts' new whip(p)ing boy to replace Wiese.

Tatar is also having a good season. Now that the two of them are getting playing time with the big club on scoring lines they're showcasing the talent that many scouting reports were claiming they had. The original deal I understood to be Tatar, Smith, and Sheehan which I agree was a bit dubious. But with Nyquist in place of Sheehan...I just think it's madness. I read several publications over the summer that were claiming Nyquist was a bonafide top 6 talent was only held back by Detroit's cautious approach and their logjam of vets.

Anyway water under the bridge. One thing I will note also, and to your point, is that we never really have full insight into the conversations taking place in the back end. There are often shackles placed on situations that might not be readily apparent to the outsider. It's possible Gillis is feeling some of those itching his ankles right now.
- AlexF

Before we throw Gillis under the bus, we need to treat these rumors just as what they are - rumors. Only The Canucks and Red Wings brass actually know what the offers were......

Before we throw Gillis under the bus, we need to treat these rumors just as what they are - rumors. Only The Canucks and Red Wings brass actually know what the offers were......
- chompsey

It will be interesting to see what happens between now and the draft. What moves Gillis will or won't make.

I thought he was going to be a good gm after his first couple seasons, but we have been lacking many of the same elements for the last couple seasons and it has really shown recently. Maybe it isn't all his fault- ownership may be meddling a bit, who knows. We need more size, scoring and grit along with more offense out of our d.

How we can have so many d with ntc/nmc is beyond me. But it sounds like Tanev and Stanton are the most easy to move and have a bit of value but not the value of a top 6 forward that we need.