Eberle for Letang better include an Edmonton 1st rd pick and a prospect as well. Only player on Oilers roster worthy of one for one deal is Hall.
- jwl1643

Not a chance pal.

If you could get that from any team you'd be laughing.

the problem with EDM is simple. they tried to take the Pittsburgh, Washington, and Chicago approach to rebuilding and try to draft a couple top 5 picks and build around them. the problem is that the guys they drafted in the top 5 simply aren't good enough to lead teams like Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, Backstrom, etc. Guys like Hall, RNH, and Yakupov cant touch those guys. The problem is an inferior player problem which causes the current culture of losing on that team. EDM fans can be in denial all they want, I know, trust me I have been a fan of a baseball fan that just had its first winning season in 20 years. The oilers seem to have some young guns waiting to progress, and that's great. but that means another 2-3 years of losing. oilers need to go big or wait for their guys to come up and even then there is no guarantee.

The Letang-Eberle swap has always been a popular discussion but to me it makes little sense for either team. Kris Letang is not a leader. He doesn't like the media and is pretty shy. He wouldn't thrive in the spotlight that EDM would put him under. He is a lot better and comfortable when he is behind 2 other star players and really doesn't have to be "the guy". If EDM would want to trade a star, trade him for a package, not a one guy.

For Pittsburgh it makes no sense but Eberle isn't the problem. You could look at the fact that Dupuis is getting old and Kunitz isn't getting any younger, but right now, our top 6 isn't the problem, our bottom 6 is the problem. We would be better off getting one or two young bottom 6 guys who have the potential to one day play top 6 minutes and maybe get a first round pick or a good forward prospect out of the deal.

Getting Eberle would be the "sexy" more and I know people like it because of the ring behind it, but I just don't think that eberle is the best answer to a kris letang trade.

just my 2 cents.
- SuperHenderson13

You can gain a lot more traction if you don't preface your thoughts with "if you don't agree with me, you're in denial."

I do agree that Eberle <--> Letang doesn't make perfect sense.

Or Crosby. How many games has he missed in his career?
- Ihatebrianburke

I wouldn't put Crosby in a Hemsky discussion. That is funny. One is productive; the other - not so much.

Not a chance pal.

If you could get that from any team you'd be laughing.
- Morris

That is one idea like those geniuses from HFBoards that makes little sense. Even I don't think Letang is worth Eberle plus a first.

Some idiot is saying Pittsburgh needs to send a 1st, Harrington and Maatta to Winnipeg for Blake Wheeler. Yep, that for a guy that has only had one 20-goal season and that was six years ago. Letang for Eberle and a first isn't at that level, but close.

That is one idea like those geniuses from HFBoards that makes little sense. Even I don't think Letang is worth Eberle plus a first.

Some idiot is saying Pittsburgh needs to send a 1st, Harrington and Maatta to Winnipeg for Blake Wheeler. Yep, that for a guy that has only had one 20-goal season and that was six years ago. Letang for Eberle and a first isn't at that level, but close.
- Oneonta Penguin

A 1st that would likely yield Ekblad or Reinhart could, in three years time, be easily the better player than Eberle. There's an argument that it's a bigger asset.

But yeah, that Wheeler deal is silly.

You can gain a lot more traction if you don't preface your thoughts with "if you don't agree with me, you're in denial.

I do agree that Eberle <--> Letang doesn't make perfect sense.
- Morris

that had nothing to do with agreeing with me champ.

from what Ive seen, many EDM fans don't believe that the culture is a problem. they think that if you make a few changes, all will be well.

that is what the "denial" part of my statement meant. if you don't agree with me, you don't agree with me. simple as that.

that had nothing to do with agreeing with me champ.

from what Ive seen, many EDM fans don't believe that the culture is a problem. they think that if you make a few changes, all will be well.

that is what the "denial" part of my statement meant. if you don't agree with me, you don't agree with me. simple as that.
- SuperHenderson13

I think most Oilers fans believe major changes are necessary to the roster. I don't precisely agree that "culture" is the problem as much as the makeup of the team. If you added a Shea Weber to our group, we'd likely start to win more, and as much as you could chalk it up to "character", I'd chalk it up to a team that needed a top pairing Dman getting a top pairing Dman. In that sense, I see the problems as largely mechanical.

Thanks, by the way, for calling me champ!

that had nothing to do with agreeing with me champ.

from what Ive seen, many EDM fans don't believe that the culture is a problem. they think that if you make a few changes, all will be well.

that is what the "denial" part of my statement meant. if you don't agree with me, you don't agree with me. simple as that.
- SuperHenderson13

Lol.. Where do you 'see' this?


Most Oiler fans want a major culture change.. Starting with Lowe

My bold prediction. Shero makes no significant trade
- dbell646

Yup. He'll need to upgrade the bottom 6. Probably bring in another tender too. Letang won't be moved.

the problem with EDM is simple. they tried to take the Pittsburgh, Washington, and Chicago approach to rebuilding and try to draft a couple top 5 picks and build around them. the problem is that the guys they drafted in the top 5 simply aren't good enough to lead teams like Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, Backstrom, etc. Guys like Hall, RNH, and Yakupov cant touch those guys. The problem is an inferior player problem which causes the current culture of losing on that team. EDM fans can be in denial all they want, I know, trust me I have been a fan of a baseball fan that just had its first winning season in 20 years. The oilers seem to have some young guns waiting to progress, and that's great. but that means another 2-3 years of losing. oilers need to go big or wait for their guys to come up and even then there is no guarantee.

The Letang-Eberle swap has always been a popular discussion but to me it makes little sense for either team. Kris Letang is not a leader. He doesn't like the media and is pretty shy. He wouldn't thrive in the spotlight that EDM would put him under. He is a lot better and comfortable when he is behind 2 other star players and really doesn't have to be "the guy". If EDM would want to trade a star, trade him for a package, not a one guy.

For Pittsburgh it makes no sense but Eberle isn't the problem. You could look at the fact that Dupuis is getting old and Kunitz isn't getting any younger, but right now, our top 6 isn't the problem, our bottom 6 is the problem. We would be better off getting one or two young bottom 6 guys who have the potential to one day play top 6 minutes and maybe get a first round pick or a good forward prospect out of the deal.

Getting Eberle would be the "sexy" more and I know people like it because of the ring behind it, but I just don't think that eberle is the best answer to a kris letang trade.

just my 2 cents.
- SuperHenderson13

Haha Hall RNH and Yakupov can't Touch those guys that's so bad.

I think most Oilers fans believe major changes are necessary to the roster. I don't precisely agree that "culture" is the problem as much as the makeup of the team. If you added a Shea Weber to our group, we'd likely start to win more, and as much as you could chalk it up to "character", I'd chalk it up to a team that needed a top pairing Dman getting a top pairing Dman. In that sense, I see the problems as largely mechanical.

Thanks, by the way, for calling me champ!
- Morris

They should have taken Murray over Yak. Every time the Pens play the Jackets, he's excellent.

I think most Oilers fans believe major changes are necessary to the roster. I don't precisely agree that "culture" is the problem as much as the makeup of the team. If you added a Shea Weber to our group, we'd likely start to win more, and as much as you could chalk it up to "character", I'd chalk it up to a team that needed a top pairing Dman getting a top pairing Dman. In that sense, I see the problems as largely mechanical.

Thanks, by the way, for calling me champ!
- Morris

if you added shea weber to any team, they'd probably win more games. that doesn't say much.

I don't watch EDM games nearly as much as you all do so I don't pretend to know more about the oilers than you do. but from what I have seen, it is beyond a talent problem because teams in this league have less talent than your team does but they win more games. to me, the team just quits on itself too easily. once you lose a game, it just snow balls from there. you guys need a bruce bodreau type of coach who will get on your players like he did with the caps in 24/7

just my two cents, and youre welcome

Haha Hall RNH and Yakupov can't Touch those guys that's so bad.
- Oilers42

do you want to add something or are you merely here for constructive criticism?

Read damn near this whole thread, good points, stupid points and really stupid points from both sides.

Immediate change...... I don't believe we have the assets to acquire a big name through trade. I don't believe that any immediate change is necessary as this season is lost,lost,lost, and there is zero hope. The only changes I expect between now and free agency is the removal of assets that might not fit our future plans (Hemsky, Gagner, Belov, Jones, etc..) with minimal return.

Next years needs.....I think that Eakins needs to address his special teams, and he can do that by hiring an associate that specializes in PP and/or Pk. As much as we need a #1 Defenseman, I don't see us getting one. What I do see as a possibility is somehow trading good players outside our "core" group or Fab 5 as they are sometimes called to pick up 2 defensemen that are neither cornerstones or elite, but can take on the big job of solidifying our defense and provide shelter and mentorship to our prospects (Nurse,Klefbom,Marincin and ossiblt Eckblad) over the next 3-4 years. I'm talking any one of Girardi, Coburn, Andy Greene,Brewer, Hjarlmarsson paired up with one of Erhoff, Markov,etc....it will be a monumental challenge for Mac T to get any 2 of these types of players, especially since so few are available in free agency. Mac T added a couple good pieces to our bottom 6 this year, he needs at least that again this off-season. Goaltending will be addressed through Free Agency, I suspect.

Trading one of the "Kids"....I can see this happening eventually, but not right away. Until the Oilers develop a player that can make one of the "small" forwards expendable, they stay. I don't see us digging a hole to fill another. We need more dirt, and that may take a few more years for either of the 2 Russians, Moroz or Khairi to be able to be compete for those spots.When one of them is capable of occupying a spot on the Right Wing, I suspect we will see either Yak or Eberle traded. But not tomorrow.

Lastly, Playoff's. As much as I would like the Oilers make the dance in 2014-15, I think 2016-17 is a more realistic goal. Also, if we stick to that goal, we might be able to spend a decade competing. I think Mac T can make a couple quick fixes to get us there next year, but if all we get a couple years of 1st round exits before we're on the outside looking in again, I would say it isn't worth it.

Sorry about the long ass post...very Hallfan of me I know.

Lol.. Where do you 'see' this?


Most Oiler fans want a major culture change.. Starting with Lowe
- robin_steele264

I'm not on the retarded 'Fire Lowe" bandwagon. It's a waste of time and change will have minimal impact,IMO.

do you want to add something or are you merely here for constructive criticism?
- SuperHenderson13

Well the notion of the Oilers drafting weaker players than Pittisburgh with our top picks as a slight towards the organization is annoying. The Whole "it didn't take Pittsburgh that long" argument is moot. Pretty sure if Crosby or Malkin were available in 2010 and 2011, we would have taken them. It's pure luck, or incredibly great planning, to be so bad when such great prospects were available.

Any fan wanting to get rid of yak should be delighted to get a 2nd for him. His rear end will be playing in the KHL in no time.

if you added shea weber to any team, they'd probably win more games. that doesn't say much.

I don't watch EDM games nearly as much as you all do so I don't pretend to know more about the oilers than you do. but from what I have seen, it is beyond a talent problem because teams in this league have less talent than your team does but they win more games. to me, the team just quits on itself too easily. once you lose a game, it just snow balls from there. you guys need a bruce bodreau type of coach who will get on your players like he did with the caps in 24/7

just my two cents, and youre welcome
- SuperHenderson13

The point of the Shea Weber comment was that changing the makeup of the team, not the culture is key.

What's a bigger contributing factor to the Oilers losing: a losing culture, or not having a dman even 2/3rds as good as Shea Weber? It's definitely the latter.

If we added a top pairing dman (even if he wasn't as good as Weber), what would be the bigger change: the culture of losing, or the fact that filling that gaping hole in our roster gives us more talent to succeed? Again, I'd say the latter.

I see 'locker room issues' as so comparatively minor that it's barely worth talking about.

Second, our team has some players that are overall very talented, but it is devoid of talent in many ways. That has little to do with culture and a lot to do with skillsets. You can teach Gagner or Hall to be wily on the boards, and expect them to be passionate, but even if they're trying their hardest they're not going to win the majority of battles in the corner with Chara. There are certain skillsets that independent of effort, we don't have like most of the other teams in the league. I listed six of them a couple pages back.

Third, I'd actually contest that we're overall more talented on paper than a lot of teams in the league. If I had to think of teams in this league that have worse forwards, defense and goaltending than us, I don't think I could come up with one. A lot of teams have us beat in two categories, and a lot of teams have us beat in 3.

Jury's out on Eakins, but I don't think another coaching change is prudent at this point. Insofar as a culture of losing is present with the oilers. The "blame it on the coach" mentality is really a major contributing factor.

Thanks for your input though. Short of calling me champ in a patronizing matter, this has been a pleasant exchange.

I'm not on the retarded 'Fire Lowe" bandwagon. It's a waste of time and change will have minimal impact,IMO.
- Jeropotato

I sorta thought that and while I don't think he's pulling the strings, he is apparently more hands on than I first would have gleaned.

It's a performance based league so in that sense, Lowe is objectively not performing and should be let go. That being said, I too wonder what it would actually change. After all, all these coaching/management changes also serve to tell the players it's not their fault.

Read damn near this whole thread, good points, stupid points and really stupid points from both sides.

Immediate change...... I don't believe we have the assets to acquire a big name through trade. I don't believe that any immediate change is necessary as this season is lost,lost,lost, and there is zero hope. The only changes I expect between now and free agency is the removal of assets that might not fit our future plans (Hemsky, Gagner, Belov, Jones, etc..) with minimal return.

Next years needs.....I think that Eakins needs to address his special teams, and he can do that by hiring an associate that specializes in PP and/or Pk. As much as we need a #1 Defenseman, I don't see us getting one. What I do see as a possibility is somehow trading good players outside our "core" group or Fab 5 as they are sometimes called to pick up 2 defensemen that are neither cornerstones or elite, but can take on the big job of solidifying our defense and provide shelter and mentorship to our prospects (Nurse,Klefbom,Marincin and ossiblt Eckblad) over the next 3-4 years. I'm talking any one of Girardi, Coburn, Andy Greene,Brewer, Hjarlmarsson paired up with one of Erhoff, Markov,etc....it will be a monumental challenge for Mac T to get any 2 of these types of players, especially since so few are available in free agency. Mac T added a couple good pieces to our bottom 6 this year, he needs at least that again this off-season. Goaltending will be addressed through Free Agency, I suspect.

Trading one of the "Kids"....I can see this happening eventually, but not right away. Until the Oilers develop a player that can make one of the "small" forwards expendable, they stay. I don't see us digging a hole to fill another. We need more dirt, and that may take a few more years for either of the 2 Russians, Moroz or Khairi to be able to be compete for those spots.When one of them is capable of occupying a spot on the Right Wing, I suspect we will see either Yak or Eberle traded. But not tomorrow.

Lastly, Playoff's. As much as I would like the Oilers make the dance in 2014-15, I think 2016-17 is a more realistic goal. Also, if we stick to that goal, we might be able to spend a decade competing. I think Mac T can make a couple quick fixes to get us there next year, but if all we get a couple years of 1st round exits before we're on the outside looking in again, I would say it isn't worth it.

Sorry about the long ass post...very Hallfan of me I know.
- Jeropotato

Hallfan in style only, not in content. You're making a lot of sense.

The only thing I'd disagree with is Gagner for minimal return. If he's open to a trade now, he will be once his NTC kicks in. I'm in no hurry to trade him even if he doesn't fit in anymore. He's bouncing back in play so I'd wait it up to get more value later.

It's hard to show patience as you suggested, but one good middle ground would be acquiring dmen with only a year or two left on their contract, or signing big, short contracts. That way, it bides time for our prospect D to come along, and without counting our chickens before they hatch, we could be ready to slot younger guys in when the acquired players demand too much/retire/ move on.

Any fan wanting to get rid of yak should be delighted to get a 2nd for him. His rear end will be playing in the KHL in no time.
- Genev21

id gladly, and i mean gladly, give a second for yak. i realize his value is down. but it isnt down that much that fast in my eyes. i'd take any potential khl risk or whatever at that minuscule price

First off, not exactly true. Second off, there are at least 30 dmen that would be as good or better than our best dmen. Should we acquire all of them?
- Morris

no, but acquiring one of them in the right deal would be a step in the right direction.

no, but acquiring one of them in the right deal would be a step in the right direction.
- stayinthefnnet

So we've got one Eberle to trade and 30 dmen to choose from. Simply because he'd be our best dman, why is Letang specifically the best guy to acquire?

My point wasn't to stand pat, it was to make sure you get the right guy in a major trade. It may be Letang, it may not be.

You can gain a lot more traction if you don't preface your thoughts with "if you don't agree with me, you're in denial."

I do agree that Eberle <--> Letang doesn't make perfect sense.
- Morris

agreed ... however i think its a mute point... i dont think shero is moving Letang or niskenen... maybe Bortuzzo or depres but im not sure edm and pitt are a match here

id gladly, and i mean gladly, give a second for yak. i realize his value is down. but it isnt down that much that fast in my eyes. i'd take any potential khl risk or whatever at that minuscule price
- stayinthefnnet

I really don't see their being as much KHL risk as portrayed. I see more of a trade demand risk than a KHL risk, as Yakupov has expressed (to his failing with the Russian media) no interest in either playing in the KHL or being seen as a "typical Russian".

And I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be a large number of GMs who would give a 1st for Yakupov, based on potential alone.