i said all along i would rather trade him and take a step back and rebuild the D from scratch.

this one wont be hoisting a cup anytime soon.

but captain caveman is here to stay so YAAAAAY CAPTAIN CAVEMAN
- Dozzer

I'd like to see that also.

Unfortunately, you almost have to do it through the draft which takes a long time and often doesn't work. Quality Dmen are near impossible to find. They just don't make it to UFA any more and even with RFA's there seems to b an unwritten rule that guys don't get offer-sheeted much (how else do you explain Stamkos and Doughty not getting offersheets)...

I think the Offersheets will start to happen though, which will only mean the quality guys get re-upped sooner.

nope.. not at all

i think i was responding to LM
- Dozzer

True so leafman started it. Dammit Lou.

This is the third monster contract the Leafs now have. As a fan that would really discourage me, especially since I don't think any of those 3 players are worth nearly as much as they're being paid.
- Tsyolin

All things considered...meh...he's still somewhat young and has a lot of hockey to offer yet. The Leafs could stand to find him some better partners and perhaps things could look better defensively....he's not a guy that is going to carry the backend, thats for usre.

dion wont fight... clarkson might go him tho

especially if bert touches the water bottle

know what would be awesome? bert on the bench taking a swig from the bottle and clarkson skates by and smacks it out of his mouth... that there would be entertaining
- Dozzer

He needs to lose the C, and get back to fighting, and bone crushing hits. Oh, and needs to learn to play D

Imo, he gets moved before the playoffs. No sense in just letting him walk for free, they know right now that they cant or wont want to afford him at $3M+ if he continues on pace.
- Colin Dambrauskas

i get the whole not letting guys walk, but you need all hands on deck for a playoff run (kule, raymond, etc). Depth is huge in the playoffs and i think it's a reason we took boston to 7. We need 3 if not 4 capable lines to compete. Moving raymond for a mid level pick won't be as valuable as having him on a solid 3rd line or filling in on the 2nd if (when) injuries strike in the playoffs.

There is no market for a soon to be UFA, and to move him while in a playoff position is just plain wrong. We need to add 1 top end Defensive dman, the east is wide open so i'd say go for it this year.

Dion, Reilly, Gunnar, Franson, and a top guy if you package Gardiner is a young and capable D core.
- clark_griswold

that D core has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

that D core has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
- Dozzer

compared to any other Eastern team outside of boston? Plus i did say add a top shutdown guy.

dion wont fight... clarkson might go him tho

especially if bert touches the water bottle

know what would be awesome? bert on the bench taking a swig from the bottle and clarkson skates by and smacks it out of his mouth... that there would be entertaining
- Dozzer

i said all along i would rather trade him and take a step back and rebuild the D from scratch.

this one wont be hoisting a cup anytime soon.

but captain caveman is here to stay so YAAAAAY CAPTAIN CAVEMAN
- Dozzer

The thing with that is. You tell Bernier, Clarkson, Bolland, Kessel, Lupul and JVR we are rebuilding? 1 won't re-sign, 1 will leave in a couple of years and the rest would/could/should be pissed.
Unfortunately i really do't think we are crap enough to get a high draft pick. Trying to be worse than Edm, Buff and NYI over the next few years is a tough ask.

i get the whole not letting guys walk, but you need all hands on deck for a playoff run (kule, raymond, etc). Depth is huge in the playoffs and i think it's a reason we took boston to 7. We need 3 if not 4 capable lines to compete. Moving raymond for a mid level pick won't be as valuable as having him on a solid 3rd line or filling in on the 2nd if (when) injuries strike in the playoffs.
- clark_griswold

Yeah I think we lose Raymond in the off-season.

He was a great pickup, and it works out for him also, but I don't see him in the Leafs plans, or budget, moving forward and he doesn't get enough return in a trade to make it worthwhile if the Leafs are still battling for a playoff spot.

that D core has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
- Dozzer

I've seen less holes to fill between a "lady of the night"s legs.

i get the whole not letting guys walk, but you need all hands on deck for a playoff run (kule, raymond, etc). Depth is huge in the playoffs and i think it's a reason we took boston to 7. We need 3 if not 4 capable lines to compete. Moving raymond for a mid level pick won't be as valuable as having him on a solid 3rd line or filling in on the 2nd if (when) injuries strike in the playoffs.
- clark_griswold

Still convinced the Leafs are looking to improve their roster though, and Raymond is clearly an expendable. I dont mean to trade him for a draft pick/prospect..but perhaps someone is willing to take him in a package for a player Toronto can use in exchange...just a thought.

Stafford, Leino, and John Scott for Kadri?

Because the straight facts are that he is doing a heck of a job defensively. A plus 13 even though he leads the league in quality of competition. Trolls will never admit it but Dion has been great in his own end this year, his game just keep maturing.
- dionschenn

Oh great, a the +/- stat, the most relevant in the game.

Listen, Phaneuf may have improved his defensive game but he's still responsible for many costly turnovers and is far from being so good that you're not worried when he's on the ice and you need to protect a lead.

He needs to lose the C, and get back to fighting, and bone crushing hits. Oh, and needs to learn to play D
- IRON.MAIDEN

Why? There aren't many C's in the League that fight often. There are a few, but everyone expects Dion to fight becuase he's the C and should show some heart. I wanna see Zetterberg fight, the heartless twat.

Edit: OMG you can say twat. AWESOME.

Stafford, a second, and a first for Kadri?
- LandlordTom

Still convinced the Leafs are looking to improve their roster though, and Raymond is clearly an expendable. I dont mean to trade him for a draft pick/prospect..but perhaps someone is willing to take him in a package for a player Toronto can use in exchange...just a thought.
- Colin Dambrauskas

i'd be up for that. I think raymond is expendable as long as we get someone to match (or come close to) his speed. I like damigo's game and think he can fill in for raymond.

Oh great, a the +/- stat, the most relevant in the game.

Listen, Phaneuf may have improved his defensive game but he's still responsible for many costly turnovers and is far from being so good that you're not worried when he's on the ice and you need to protect a lead.
- Scabeh

And he really cant skate...

and there ya have it
- Dozzer

Awesome...let's let fans of other teams decide what's best for the Leafs. Great idea!

Oh great, a the +/- stat, the most relevant in the game.

Listen, Phaneuf may have improved his defensive game but he's still responsible for many costly turnovers and is far from being so good that you're not worried when he's on the ice and you need to protect a lead.
- Scabeh

so is PK. Just ask your coach

Already went through with my suggestions countless times, I no longer give a poop about this team, they will forever stay in mediocrity.
- LeafMan

Good...so you'll stop spouting your nonsense then?

that D core has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
- Dozzer

At least they made sure another hole didn't open up.

Yeah I think we lose Raymond in the off-season.

He was a great pickup, and it works out for him also, but I don't see him in the Leafs plans, or budget, moving forward and he doesn't get enough return in a trade to make it worthwhile if the Leafs are still battling for a playoff spot.
- Aetherial

There are a few players that they can give a look next year, Abbott, Leivo and Biggs (or whoever makes an impression at camp) to take a third line role, they have Holland as well that can switch to wing or they can pick a player off the leftover pile at UFA like Raymond this year. Someone who wants to prove themselves at a bargain price for one year.

so is PK. Just ask your coach
- clark_griswold

So after the +/- I get the "yeah but that habs player sucks too" argument?

Seriously?

Yeah I think we lose Raymond in the off-season.

He was a great pickup, and it works out for him also, but I don't see him in the Leafs plans, or budget, moving forward and he doesn't get enough return in a trade to make it worthwhile if the Leafs are still battling for a playoff spot.
- Aetherial

Agree