Interesting stat lines for people saying that trading Letang would hurt the team (granted, small sample size)

2013-14 Season

With Letang in the lineup - 13-8-1, 3.00 gf/g average, 3.125 ga/g average
without Letang in the lineup - 9-2, 3.27 gf/g average, 2.00 ga/g average

Interesting stat lines for people saying that trading Letang would hurt the team (granted, small sample size)

2013-14 Season

With Letang in the lineup - 13-8-1, 3.00 gf/g average, 3.125 ga/g average
without Letang in the lineup - 9-2, 3.27 gf/g average, 2.00 ga/g average
- cap1681

hey, I'll be the first to agree Letang hasn't had the best of years... but he has the potential to be one of the better defenseman in the league. pittsburgh is 6th in goals per game despite the injuries to it's players. I wont deny a lack of scoring on the bottom 6, but that can be remedied in the offseason in FA. trading Letang would be shortsighted. I think his contract, compared to similar d-men in the coming years, will be considered a deal. if nisk signs for 4.5 as some say next year... what will d-men sign for in the year after that... patience is needed

I think Letang will be traded by the midpoint of his contract unless he gains some more consistency. I don't think he'll be traded for the next 2 years though.

Funny how I keep seeing the same things repeatedly from the blind pro-Letang faction..."can be elite", "potential to be", and "breakout passes...blah blah" yet absolutely dismiss any of our young D as suitable replacements because potential and can be's are not guaranteed. Funny how that doesn't go both ways. Alexandre Daigle came into the league with all the talent in the world, did ok for a while and then regressed badly. Despite his all world skills and potential, he never got his game back. Who can say that the Letang of the past year isn't the level at which he will remain? The PP the past year has been noticeably better with Martin at the point, and over the same time I'll admit Letang has been deadly accurate with his breakout passes...60% to Penguins and 40% directly to the other team, most leading to good scoring chances against. I'll bet any of the kids can duplicate that easily.

Looking at the whole picture, if Letang does ever play up to all he's capable of, then no, we don't have an exact replacement. What we do have are several kids who easily could be 80-85% of Letang and I'll gladly take that drop off in exchange for a 50% better 3rd line, a 50% better 4th line and maybe a replacement for Kunitz in a couple of years. One lineup spot is slightly lessened to improve multiple areas making the team better as a whole, which is how good G.M.'s would look at things.

Funny how I keep seeing the same things repeatedly from the blind pro-Letang faction..."can be elite", "potential to be", and "breakout passes...blah blah" yet absolutely dismiss any of our young D as suitable replacements because potential and can be's are not guaranteed. Funny how that doesn't go both ways. Alexandre Daigle came into the league with all the talent in the world, did ok for a while and then regressed badly. Despite his all world skills and potential, he never got his game back. Who can say that the Letang of the past year isn't the level at which he will remain? The PP the past year has been noticeably better with Martin at the point, and over the same time I'll admit Letang has been deadly accurate with his breakout passes...60% to Penguins and 40% directly to the other team, most leading to good scoring chances against. I'll bet any of the kids can duplicate that easily.

Looking at the whole picture, if Letang does ever play up to all he's capable of, then no, we don't have an exact replacement. What we do have are several kids who easily could be 80-85% of Letang and I'll gladly take that drop off in exchange for a 50% better 3rd line, a 50% better 4th line and maybe a replacement for Kunitz in a couple of years. One lineup spot is slightly lessened to improve multiple areas making the team better as a whole, which is how good G.M.'s would look at things.
- Pags

no promise any of the youngsters could even replace 80-85% of Letang. And most of the arguments about trading Letang seem to center on improving the 3rd, 4th lines.... which we can do without trading Letang... the cap is going up.. a lot. and is supposed to continue to do so. that argument makes sense IF the pens had to trade letang to improve those areas. they dont need to next off season. good gm's know when to hold onto their best players, which is why they signed him to the deal they did. and the daigle thing was a real stretch... I could make that stretch and say that the great ones trade for futures seemed to work better for la than oilers. letang has proven he can do the things people argue about... the kids have yet to do so...

what people seem to forget is how much of our new cap space next year will be lost to the raises of Malkin and Letang.

Trading Letang, to me, is a very smart thing to do for this organization.

I like Letang, his heart is usually in the right place but his brain is often not.

Given the way we play and the talent we have, we don't need a guy like Letang to score for us on the backend.

We could take that 7+ million and put it somewhere better. Plus the return we would get for Letang is not small. Probably a quality NHLer, a young prospect with upside, and 2 draft picks... we would probably get 4 quality assets for him. and we've proven that we can play without him. With these young guys and the system we are playing right now, we don't need Letang.

Now I'm saying lets just tell the whole world that we don't want him, of course we want him, but if you can find a great deal for him, trade him.

what people seem to forget is how much of our new cap space next year will be lost to the raises of Malkin and Letang.

Trading Letang, to me, is a very smart thing to do for this organization.

I like Letang, his heart is usually in the right place but his brain is often not.

Given the way we play and the talent we have, we don't need a guy like Letang to score for us on the backend.

We could take that 7+ million and put it somewhere better. Plus the return we would get for Letang is not small. Probably a quality NHLer, a young prospect with upside, and 2 draft picks... we would probably get 4 quality assets for him. and we've proven that we can play without him. With these young guys and the system we are playing right now, we don't need Letang.

Now I'm saying lets just tell the whole world that we don't want him, of course we want him, but if you can find a great deal for him, trade him.
- SuperHenderson13

go back and read gunners blog on the cap situation next year and you see the thought that letang and malkins raises significantly impact our signing ability isnt accurate. again, why trade a good player for futures... thats bush! Bush league! this thread is (not you specifically) starting to resemble the old cloutier threads... people complaining about a player and pining to get rid of him... and then expecting some great deal in return... it doesnt work both ways.

Gibbons for Megna.... Pens have 32 players on their NHL roster, that's a lot of paychecks to cut lol

no promise any of the youngsters could even replace 80-85% of Letang. And most of the arguments about trading Letang seem to center on improving the 3rd, 4th lines.... which we can do without trading Letang... the cap is going up.. a lot. and is supposed to continue to do so. that argument makes sense IF the pens had to trade letang to improve those areas. they dont need to next off season. good gm's know when to hold onto their best players, which is why they signed him to the deal they did. and the daigle thing was a real stretch... I could make that stretch and say that the great ones trade for futures seemed to work better for la than oilers. letang has proven he can do the things people argue about... the kids have yet to do so...
- ChrisMS

Your last line just proved exactly what I was saying..."can do". If that said does or is doing we would be arguing about the colors of the outdoor jersey, not this. Simply put it comes down to some here willing to pay his large salary hoping he becomes elite, while others here would rather take the chance on a Despres or Maatta becoming very good and making the team instantly better overall now. Nothing to do with Letang not being talented or disliking him...simply asset management and belief in what will happen in the future. We traded both Whitney and Gogo when they looked to be top notch offensive d-men simply because of Letang's potential.

And nothing for nothing, but if comparing Letang to Daigle is a stretch, the English language doesn't have an appropriate word for comparing a Letang trade to the Gretzky trade

go back and read gunners blog on the cap situation next year and you see the thought that letang and malkins raises significantly impact our signing ability isnt accurate. again, why trade a good player for futures... thats bush! Bush league! this thread is (not you specifically) starting to resemble the old cloutier threads... people complaining about a player and pining to get rid of him... and then expecting some great deal in return... it doesnt work both ways.
- ChrisMS

I think you're a little off base here. I don't see many people knocking Letang's abilities. Yes, he had really bad playoff performance last year. And yes, he has been hot and cold this year. But his overall play over the last 3 years has been very good. I fully expect him to return to his normal high caliber play.

I think much of the argument for trading him isn't people selling low, it is looking at the possibilities of what this team could be if you moved him. The Pens are at a place where they have a stockpile of talented, young, puck moving defensemen in their system. They can move Letang and see little to no drop off in defensive production. Also, people who think his trade stock is low have no idea what they're talking about. The vast majority of the league would be interested in acquiring him. If Vanek can get Moulson, a first and a second, Letang can easily get a solid top 6 - 9 winger, a top end prospect, a middle prospect and a first round pick.

This isn't trading all for futures. They would be solidifying their 3rd line (a big need), adding depth their system to replace the D that would become regulars, and adding a pick to a deep draft class.

Not saying it is going to happen, but it should be explored if the right deal is there to be made.

go back and read gunners blog on the cap situation next year and you see the thought that letang and malkins raises significantly impact our signing ability isnt accurate. again, why trade a good player for futures... thats bush! Bush league! this thread is (not you specifically) starting to resemble the old cloutier threads... people complaining about a player and pining to get rid of him... and then expecting some great deal in return... it doesnt work both ways.
- ChrisMS

Malkin and Letang's cap hits are rising by over 4 million... im not saying it's a problem, but its something you cant ignore.

no it isn't bush league. you trade your unneeded valuable assets for valuable assets that you do need. what valuable assets do the penguins have? good puck moving defensemen. what valuable assets do the penguins not have? top forward prospects. It's not bush league, it's economics.

the penguins will get a great deal in return if they decide to trade him. we aren't calling for letang's head because we think he's bad, we think it would be a good idea to trade him because we could allot our funds and assets to a better cause to make our team better.

simple as that.

I think you're a little off base here. I don't see many people knocking Letang's abilities. Yes, he had really bad playoff performance last year. And yes, he has been hot and cold this year. But his overall play over the last 3 years has been very good. I fully expect him to return to his normal high caliber play.

I think much of the argument for trading him isn't people selling low, it is looking at the possibilities of what this team could be if you moved him. The Pens are at a place where they have a stockpile of talented, young, puck moving defensemen in their system. They can move Letang and see little to no drop off in defensive production. Also, people who think his trade stock is low have no idea what they're talking about. The vast majority of the league would be interested in acquiring him. If Vanek can get Moulson, a first and a second, Letang can easily get a solid top 6 - 9 winger, a top end prospect, a middle prospect and a first round pick.

This isn't trading all for futures. They would be solidifying their 3rd line (a big need), adding depth their system to replace the D that would become regulars, and adding a pick to a deep draft class.

Not saying it is going to happen, but it should be explored if the right deal is there to be made.
- mw630

I really doubt the pens get close to that deal... first they need to find a buyer... one with cap space, one willing to spend money on letangs contract, be willing to send all that for one player... who would be interested? and have the assets? I feel that the players to go in a trade would have to be one or someof the younger players. we have an asset, signed long term in Letang whos abilties we know... in the prime of his career... trade one of the many young prospects over letang... again... his cap hit is irrelevent starting next off season and will become increasing so in the seasons ahead.

Your last line just proved exactly what I was saying..."can do". If that said does or is doing we would be arguing about the colors of the outdoor jersey, not this. Simply put it comes down to some here willing to pay his large salary hoping he becomes elite, while others here would rather take the chance on a Despres or Maatta becoming very good and making the team instantly better overall now. Nothing to do with Letang not being talented or disliking him...simply asset management and belief in what will happen in the future. We traded both Whitney and Gogo when they looked to be top notch offensive d-men simply because of Letang's potential.

And nothing for nothing, but if comparing Letang to Daigle is a stretch, the English language doesn't have an appropriate word for comparing a Letang trade to the Gretzky trade
- Pags

if some here were able to pay his large salary I wuold wonder what said millionaires are doing blogging about hockey... I've said it before, if they had to trade a d-man... which they dont... I think the best long term option is martin... he has an obvious successor in Maata, Letang, unless Pouliot really develops, has no obvious successor... and if Pouliot does develop, there are 15 teams the pens could trade him too at that point. lastly, and this has been a good debate without bumholery etc, those trades you described didnt involve norris finalists, and an obvious successor was already in place.

Malkin and Letang's cap hits are rising by over 4 million... im not saying it's a problem, but its something you cant ignore.

no it isn't bush league. you trade your unneeded valuable assets for valuable assets that you do need. what valuable assets do the penguins have? good puck moving defensemen. what valuable assets do the penguins not have? top forward prospects. It's not bush league, it's economics.

the penguins will get a great deal in return if they decide to trade him. we aren't calling for letang's head because we think he's bad, we think it would be a good idea to trade him because we could allot our funds and assets to a better cause to make our team better.

simple as that.
- SuperHenderson13

The pens dont need top forward prospects... their top 6 is relatively set for years... and all the allot funds stuff doesnt really matter... not with the cap rising... I really do understand the arguments put forth, I just dont think they trump keeping letang... pens have a core to go after the cup for the next 7-8 years... picking up prospects and picks should be in the back of our minds... pens can spend on FA, use their own picks to develop futures, etc. Now if Bennett becomes a injury bust... Letang may have to go to one of 15 teams at that time

I love the faultiness of this logic - Letang sucks, so let's trade him for a huge return.

And then the idea of trading him to shore up the 3rd and 4th lines just makes it even more delicious.

Letang is going nowhere. Those of you advocating it are wasting keystrokes, just like folks three years ago who wanted to trade Malkin to the Kings.

Letang is given responsibilities and freedom that these rookie d men don't have to deal with right now. They're playing a very simple game, a system game. That's great in December against depleted Red Wing and Maple Leafs teams that I didn't think much of to begin with. But it remains to be seen how Maata/Despres, etc. react in the playoffs.

Letang makes big mistakes, but they're often because he can make plays few other players can make. Just like Karlsson. Just like Paul Coffey back in the day. Letang's defensive game is light years better than those guys, physical, fast, good stick. And he's what, two years older than Bortuzzo? Sky's the limit for Letang, and he works hard enough that it's not really taking a risk betting on a big payoff, which is why Shero re-signed him when most here were sure that he'd be traded on draft day.

The pens dont need top forward prospects... their top 6 is relatively set for years... and all the allot funds stuff doesnt really matter... not with the cap rising... I really do understand the arguments put forth, I just dont think they trump keeping letang... pens have a core to go after the cup for the next 7-8 years... picking up prospects and picks should be in the back of our minds... pens can spend on FA, use their own picks to develop futures, etc. Now if Bennett becomes a injury bust... Letang may have to go to one of 15 teams at that time
- ChrisMS

set for years? really?

kunitz is 34 years old and isn't getting any younger. dupuis is already showing signs of losing his touch from the past few years.

so no, this team is not set for years with their top 6.

I love the faultiness of this logic - Letang sucks, so let's trade him for a huge return.

And then the idea of trading him to shore up the 3rd and 4th lines just makes it even more delicious.

Letang is going nowhere. Those of you advocating it are wasting keystrokes, just like folks three years ago who wanted to trade Malkin to the Kings.

Letang is given responsibilities and freedom that these rookie d men don't have to deal with right now. They're playing a very simple game, a system game. That's great in December against depleted Red Wing and Maple Leafs teams that I didn't think much of to begin with. But it remains to be seen how Maata/Despres, etc. react in the playoffs.

Letang makes big mistakes, but they're often because he can make plays few other players can make. Just like Karlsson. Just like Paul Coffey back in the day. Letang's defensive game is light years better than those guys, physical, fast, good stick. And he's what, two years older than Bortuzzo? Sky's the limit for Letang, and he works hard enough that it's not really taking a risk betting on a big payoff, which is why Shero re-signed him when most here were sure that he'd be traded on draft day.
- hardnosed

Save your breath, I've tried to spell it out too. It's hopeless. I don't think Letang is untouchable but after Sid and Geno, he is likely the 3rd that won't be heading out anytime soon.

I hate seeing him struggle, but clearly he is not healthy and was probably never 100% so far this season. A great point about the kids playing a very simple game, luckily they are doing a fantastic job.

Olli, looks like gold. Despres is really finding his game. Bortuzzo can anchor the 5-6 spots anytime. Too early to seriously say anything about little Ulf and Dumoulin.

Should be fun to watch the kids play at MSG.

And then the idea of trading him to shore up the 3rd and 4th lines just makes it even more delicious.

- hardnosed

This right here is absolute crazy talk, agreed. I can understand trading Letang, but you just don't do it for spare parts like bottom six forwards (unless they're the finishing touches on a package you're getting in return).

set for years? really?

kunitz is 34 years old and isn't getting any younger. dupuis is already showing signs of losing his touch from the past few years.

so no, this team is not set for years with their top 6.
- SuperHenderson13

kunitz having his best season ever... bennett is young, developing, neal signed for several more years... so yeah... set for years... dupuis is gonna be a third liner soon, but we will have money to sign another top 6... they are absolutely set in the top 6 for at least 3 years

This right here is absolute crazy talk, agreed. I can understand trading Letang, but you just don't do it for spare parts like bottom six forwards (unless they're the finishing touches on a package you're getting in return).
- BulliesPhan87

sorta... would have to be an asolutely mind-boggling trade, which of coarse isnt going to happen this season with the depleted cap... maybe in a few years though

Save your breath, I've tried to spell it out too. It's hopeless. I don't think Letang is untouchable but after Sid and Geno, he is likely the 3rd that won't be heading out anytime soon.

I hate seeing him struggle, but clearly he is not healthy and was probably never 100% so far this season. A great point about the kids playing a very simple game, luckily they are doing a fantastic job.

Olli, looks like gold. Despres is really finding his game. Bortuzzo can anchor the 5-6 spots anytime. Too early to seriously say anything about little Ulf and Dumoulin.

Should be fun to watch the kids play at MSG.
- Sell My Monkey

its good to know there are some wise individuals here... sometimes I wonder if its just that some fans are spoiled and need to constantly find something to complain about... now letang, previously fleury, martin, bylsma, etc. I'm not talking normal criticism, but absolutely trying to find a scapegoat. somebody always needs traded or fired and its silly. I like the attitude of sitting back and relaxing watching the young kids and enjoy the "problem" of having to many d-men

its good to know there are some wise individuals here... sometimes I wonder if its just that some fans are spoiled and need to constantly find something to complain about... now letang, previously fleury, martin, bylsma, etc. I'm not talking normal criticism, but absolutely trying to find a scapegoat. somebody always needs traded or fired and its silly. I like the attitude of sitting back and relaxing watching the young kids and enjoy the "problem" of having to many d-men
- ChrisMS

At least we don't have to worry about anyone in this blog actually making or influence ing the moves the Pens make as I'm sure Shero doesn't read this blog.

At least we don't have to worry about anyone in this blog actually making or influence ing the moves the Pens make as I'm sure Shero doesn't read this blog.
- Bradlee3

Next time I eat across from him at TGIF in consol (twice now, once on deadline day eve last year) I'll let him know that he doesnt need scouts and assistants anymore... he can just come right here! If I can work up the courage to express opinions like this not in front of a computer

Lets Go Pens. Beat the Rags!

Another nignt, three more bad hits... Those 2 game suspension are really teaching guys.