Real question is this. They deem the Bortuzzo hit on D'Amigo to be a non suspendable offence because D'Amigo was reaching and lowered himself.

Then how about Engelland hit to the head of Abdelkader. Wasn't it almost the exact same play?
- ILoveLamp

Completely different plays... Bortuzzo hit D'Amigo straight on, full body. He just happened to be leaning forward a bit, and his head took some contact.

Engelland's was more of one of those hits that "pick" the head. He got some of Abdelkader's shoulder after that, but he hit mostly head.

[quote=rival22]Bortuzzo has that irritatingly trolling smile too when he's in the middle of crap.

Yes, it screams..."I'm badass and I know it, please try to come eff with me"

I agree his ceiling is likely not much higher than a 3rd pairing guy, but quality 3rd pairs are often what makes the difference on a championship team.

Real question is this. They deem the Bortuzzo hit on D'Amigo to be a non suspendable offence because D'Amigo was reaching and lowered himself.

Then how about Engelland hit to the head of Abdelkader. Wasn't it almost the exact same play?
- ILoveLamp

In my view, Engelland flipped his elbow out to clip Abdelkader's jaw or head. In otherwords, Engelland lunged to make contact as Abdelkader looked like he otherwise would avoid the hit. That is the kind of hit that has no place in the NHL.

Completely different plays... Bortuzzo hit D'Amigo straight on, full body. He just happened to be leaning forward a bit, and his head took some contact.

Engelland's was more of one of those hits that "pick" the head. He got some of Abdelkader's shoulder after that, but he hit mostly head.
- rival22

Exactly. Engo chickenwings Abdelkader. While Bortuzzo just flat out brick walled D'Amingo.

Wanted to comment on something from the last thread. Someone was saying something about all the cap space the Pens are saving right now with all of the players on the IR. It doesn't work that way, once the players come back we are right up against the cap again. We are not currently accruing space while those guys are out. I am pretty sure that with the exception of Vokoun, every guy that is currently on IR will be back and therefore the only cap space we will have come deadline time will be Vokoun's cap space if he ends up being out for the rest of the season. If he comes back, the Pens will have little cap space, I think roughly $800,000.
- PensFan1103

This is true... If completely healthy to start the season, the Pens were over the cap (although they thought they could fit it somehow). If they get completely healthy again (pipe dream), they will be over the cap as well (or right up against it depending on other roster spots).

You don't get future credit for LTIR relief. Any deadline deal will have to mostly be a dollar for dollar type of trade, not prospects/picks for players like last season.

[quote=rival22]Bortuzzo has that irritatingly trolling smile too when he's in the middle of crap.

Yes, it screams..."I'm badass and I know it, please try to come eff with me"

I agree his ceiling is likely not much higher than a 3rd pairing guy, but quality 3rd pairs are often what makes the difference on a championship team.
- Emperor Filonius

And if one of your third pairing guys can irritate and take an opponent's skill guy off their game in the playoffs, even better.

- canadianpenfan

Guilty as charged. No appropriate counter gif found.

Bortuzzo has that irritatingly trolling smile too when he's in the middle of crap.

I'm not 100% sold on his ceiling being that much higher than he is now, but he can be a solid 3rd pairing guy in the NHL, with underrated puck skills and that mean streak.

I hate making comparisons to hall of fame players, but as far as playing style, Bortuzzo could be a VERY poor man's version of a Chris Pronger-type player. Nowhere even in the same ballpark as far as talent, but the combination of size, nastiness, and skill kind of reminds me of Pronger's game.
- rival22

I think we went back and forth on this before. I believe he has the potential of being a solid top 4 shutdown d-man getting 20+ minutes a night. Not saying he will be a top pair d-man, but a second pairing defensive compliment to one of the Pens up and coming offensive minded guys is a huge possibility.

Real question is this. They deem the Bortuzzo hit on D'Amigo to be a non suspendable offence because D'Amigo was reaching and lowered himself.

Then how about Engelland hit to the head of Abdelkader. Wasn't it almost the exact same play?
- ILoveLamp

I think the two hits were completely different. If D'Amigo wasn't leaning forward, head first, Bortuzzo would have hit him squarely in the chest. With the angle Engelland was taking, the only part of the body he could hit was Abdelkader's head. Engelland deserves a couple games. Bortuzzo's hit was clean.

I think the two hits were completely different. If D'Amigo wasn't leaning forward, head first, Bortuzzo would have hit him squarely in the chest. With the angle Engelland was taking, the only part of the body he could hit was Abdelkader's head. Engelland deserves a couple games. Bortuzzo's hit was clean.
- mw630

Engo's getting at least 5 based on his in person hearing and it's probably going to cost him his spot in the line up. Engo is tougher but Borts is far tougher to play against. I don't see any way Engo takes his spot back if Borts keeps playing like he did last night.

Guilty as charged. No appropriate counter gif found.
- BulliesPhan87

I find this impossible to believe. Impossible.

I find this impossible to believe. Impossible.
- canadianpenfan

Engo's getting at least 5 based on his in person hearing and it's probably going to cost him his spot in the line up. Engo is tougher but Borts is far tougher to play against. I don't see any way Engo takes his spot back if Borts keeps playing like he did last night.
- canadianpenfan

I agree - would like to see Engelland traded for what they can get. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past HCDB to put him back in the lineup at some point. Every time I think there is no way he should be playing ahead of Borts/Despres, there he is, right back in the lineup. HCDB has a soft spot for him

Edit - I don't think he is definitely getting at least 5 games. I thought I read somewhere, when you get a match penalty, you automatically get an in person meeting. With what we saw from Clarkson, 2-3 games would be the standard.

I agree - I would like to see Engelland traded for what they can get. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past HCDB to put him back in the lineup at some point. Every time I think there is no way he should be playing ahead of Borts/Despres, there he is, right back in the lineup. I think HCDB has a soft spot for him

Edit - I don't think he is definitely getting at least 5 games. I thought I read somewhere, when you get a match penalty, you automatically get an in person meeting. With what we saw from Clarkson, I would think he gets 2 - 3 games.
- mw630

Engelland has actually played well in the last few weeks with the injuries piling up, but there just is no way that he should actually be playing over guys like Bortuzzo or Despres at all.

I said before that there is a demand for guys like Engelland in the league, with 4-minute a game fighters being phased out for guys like Engelland who can fight and play a contributing role. I just don't see him on this roster when they are anywhere near healthy.

A Match penalty gets an automatic League review, not necessarily an in-person hearing. Him getting an in-person hearing gives Shannahan the option of going over 5 games, but doesn't necessarily mean that he will get more than 5.

I agree - would like to see Engelland traded for what they can get. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past HCDB to put him back in the lineup at some point. Every time I think there is no way he should be playing ahead of Borts/Despres, there he is, right back in the lineup. HCDB has a soft spot for him

Edit - I don't think he is definitely getting at least 5 games. I thought I read somewhere, when you get a match penalty, you automatically get an in person meeting. With what we saw from Clarkson, 2-3 games would be the standard.
- mw630

I'm in the minority because i like Engo but the team is better with Borts. I think Engo would be a perfect #7 that could be played on the wing in certain match ups if we need the added toughness. I wouldn't trade him for peanuts.

Yes, i think you are correct about the suspension, i just guessed 5 or more but it could be less.

I find this impossible to believe. Impossible.
- canadianpenfan

It's concerning, I know.

Despres, Bortuzzo, Doumolin, Poilliott, Harrington, Michellsson, Samuelsson are the Pens future D, complimented by Letang and Niskanen
- allaboutpens

So you are getting rid of Maatta?

So you are getting rid of Maatta?
- Marc D

I presume he's traded to the Flyers for Rinaldo.

I think we went back and forth on this before. I believe he has the potential of being a solid top 4 shutdown d-man getting 20+ minutes a night. Not saying he will be a top pair d-man, but a second pairing defensive compliment to one of the Pens up and coming offensive minded guys is a huge possibility.
- cap1681

Quite possible that he's going to be better than I think... what does set him apart is his style of play. It seems like none of the other D prospects has the edge that he does.

So you are getting rid of Maatta?
- Marc D

Dude can flat out play. Sharp as a tack too.

I presume he's traded to the Flyers for Rinaldo.
- BulliesPhan87

Nope, for Laughton.

I'm in the minority because i like Engo but the team is better with Borts. I think Engo would be a perfect #7 that could be played on the wing in certain match ups if we need the added toughness. I wouldn't trade him for peanuts.

Yes, i think you are correct about the suspension, i just guessed 5 or more but it could be less.
- canadianpenfan

I think Engo is useful player. He was actually playing pretty well prior to that hit. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a spot with the embarrassment of riches they currently have on the blue line.

I could see him being moved if they ever get healthy. The one good thing about all these injuries is the team is learning they have plenty of good options.

I think Engo is useful player. He was actually playing pretty well prior to that hit. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a spot with the embarrassment of riches they currently have on the blue line.

I could see him being moved if they ever get healthy. The one good thing about all these injuries is the team is learning they have plenty of good options.
- madmike71

I would rather trade one of the other 6 guys that could become top 4 for a better return and play Engo at #7 instead of wasting that spot on a talented kid.

So you are getting rid of Maatta?
- Marc D

Haha, somebody made a glaring omission. Anyway you cut it, the Pens are going to have some interesting/tough decisions to make in the near future regarding their defensemen. With how well, Maatta, Despres, and Bortuzzo have been playing, how would they not be permanent fixtures on the D going forward? And granted it's a very, very small sample size, but Dumoulin seems ready and Samuelson didn't look bad either. And then you have Harrington and Pouliot still to come. Just looking at next year with Niskanen and Orpik UFAs, I think Niskanen is gone for sure, if he isn't traded at the deadline, which I personally think he will be considering how well the younger guys are doing. It is so hard to think about the Pens having the cap space to resign Orpik, but yet not resigning him, yet that seems like the right thing to do, unless they plan on letting Martin walk the following year. But then you have the same top 4 next year with probably Bortuzzo getting hosed as the 7th d man sitting in the press box most nights, while guys like Dumoulin, Samuelson, and Harrington are down in Wilkes-Barre not getting a chance. Like we have all said it is a great problem to have, but it sure will be interesting.

All those who have said, nice to have more size on the backend are so right. I know the Pens have been targeting size with D but we have what appears to be an embarrassment of riches. I hear Glass and Scuds are soon to come back, any word on Martin?

Also, Bortuzzo brings in the fear factor. He is mouthy too which I like. It takes players off their game and in his head. Good qualities to have in at least one mean D man on the squad. Just happy with how these guys stiffened to resistance last night.