Nope, don't think so.
Never -- never -- never have seen any of those guys other than Roszival spending any time talking to Nick about the game (you can pretty much tell when that's happening versus asking the guy where he's going to eat after the game).

Game is quite different from high school.
Even more different in junior (which Nick NEVER played but the rest have).
Of course, each step up is more difficult -- it's the best of the best.

If you for a moment believe that just because he came out of high school and 4 years later has 100+ games in the NHL and should be or is all he can be as an NHL defenseman, I've got a few bridges I'd like to sell you . . . .
- savvyone-1

Award for worst development of a young defenceman goes to the Buffalo Sabres with Tyler Meyers.

Young kids playing on the blueline take years to learn the position. Leddy is doing fine at this stage of his career and has a Cup and plenty of experience with a winner. The Hawks have him in a place he can succeed instead of rushing him into something they know he can't handle yet.

What I do agree on is about the decision between him and Johnny Oduya. Can't say I'm unhappy with O's play but he's what, 10 yrs older than Nick? Al's point the other day was O at 22 was a far cry from the level Leddy is at today at 22. No way he's reached the pinnacle as a player, we're probably 2 to 4 yrs away from really knowing what he will be.
- savvyone-1

Regardless of what everyone thinks about Leddy - whether he's this or that is not what I based my earlier post on. I think it comes down to what the organization has in the pipeline talent wise as a replacement (possibly Clendening and to a lesser degree Kostka) with possible cap constraints on the horizon.

Leddy is going to need another contract at the same time Toews, Kane & Saad will need one. How will Leddy effect getting everyone under the cap when that time comes?

There is the discussed possibility of trading either Oduya or Leddy. Leddy would clearly fetch a bigger return. Could a trade package around Leddy possibly get the Hawks a top draft pick? If it can, there's something that can be used to possibly replace Hossa or Sharp a few seasons down the road.

Young kids playing on the blueline take years to learn the position. Leddy is doing fine at this stage of his career and has a Cup and plenty of experience with a winner. The Hawks have him in a place he can succeed instead of rushing him into something they know he can't handle yet.
- RickJ

Agreed.

There is the discussed possibility of trading either Oduya or Leddy. Leddy would clearly fetch a bigger return. Could a trade package around Leddy possibly get the Hawks a top draft pick? If it can, there's something that can be used to possibly replace Hossa or Sharp a few seasons down the road.
- EKolb13

Eli, can't disagree with your entire post at all, especially this part.
As I said earlier, I'll be disappointed if it happens and wish Nick the best. I'd like to see what's in store for him in a few years -- like everyone, they are a product of not only their own skills but the impact of his teammates and coaches.

I think the plan all along has been to have Leddy replace Oduya at the end of Oduya's contract, leaving Oduya a UFA to find a home elsewhere.

Unless...

Leddy does not develop the way they want him to. This is where having both contracts expire at the same time gives the FO options to evaluate. It also creates an additional incentive for Leddy to improve.

I think the plan all along has been to have Leddy replace Oduya at the end of Oduya's contract, leaving Oduya a UFA to find a home elsewhere.

Unless...

Leddy does not develop the way they want him to. This is where having both contracts expire at the same time gives the FO options to evaluate. It also creates an additional incentive for Leddy to improve.
- Return of the Roar

This is also a possibility. Also, Clendening will be do for a contract at the same time as the other two.

Depending on how much the cap goes up next summer, it might be a possibility to hold onto both Oduya & Leddy.

He had an outstanding record against the bears, i think it was 22-10. Hated that guy, Corey Wooten has a permanent spot in my heart for FINALLY putting him to rest
- BlazinMike

He feasted on the Bears during the 90s, but started to really lose it near the end of his tenure with the Packers. Personally I try to block out many of the 90s and early 2000s Bears teams, even if they weren't as bad as some of the other Chicago teams.

Since I have no life, how's this for a cap calculation for 2015-2016 (and I'm sure everyone will jump all over my errors):

Kane - 9,000
Toews - 9,000
Sharp - 5,900
Hossa - 5,275
Bickell - 4,000
Kruger - 2,500
Saad - 2,500
Morin - 1,250
Pirri - 1,250
Shaw - 2,000
Bollig - 750
Smith - 750
Mills - 750
One - 1,000
14 Forwards = 45,925

Seabrook - 5,800
Keith - 5,538
HJ - 4,100
Leddy - 3,000
Kostka - 1,000
Clendenning - 750
One - 750
7 Defensemen = 20,938

Crawford - 6,000
One = 1,000
2 Goalies = 7,000

23 players = 73,863

Am I dramatically off anywhere?

This is a thing...

This is a thing...


- prd797

Classic.

I reconciled myself the fact that there are a bunch of fans that don't get it and so if Stanley trades Nick, I'm fine with it. I'll be sad but I'll follow his progress.

My hope, once again, is that he would land somewhere where he will get the proper tutoring/mentoring -- much like Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook were beneficiaries of from Trent Yawney.

Think about it . . . Leddy has had NONE of that. He sure ain't getting any of that from Dumb and Dumber (Mike Kitchen and Jamie Kompon) and Q was a journeyman at best in the NHL and is not known for bringing along young talent (he's always been known more of a vet's coach)

So, if he's traded and goes somewhere where he can finally get good direction, I'm fine with it.

6628 isn't around here much and there's only a few that really recognize Leddy's talents. I've been around the rink myself for well over 40 years. Guys that skate like Leddy are truly far and few between. Hands-down the best skater on the Hawks and easily one of the top 10 skaters in the NHL. And I am NOT simply talking speed cause if that's what people think, they have it all wrong.

Anyway, you boys go on about your various trade scenarios for Nick. Doubt they will happen as Leddy is Stanley's biggest prize so far and I am pretty sure he is not letting him go. Al has tried to provide the most rational points about Leddy, his development and age. But I don't think most really process what's said. I love Nik Hjalmarsson (both daughters had me get them an official Nik sweater, back before the 1st CUP was won). But he had AHL time. Leddy came right out of HS effectively (played a few college games if I recall right). I think he's done quite well and continues to show improvements.

We should all be pulling for this kid because if he can make something out of the tools he has, the Hawks as a team will be much better for it.
- savvyone-1

Hey Savvy, I'm around. Just busy. And for what it's worth I've been around the game for 50+ years now, played, coached, and worked the game. In the past I have been paid for my services to multiple teams from learn to skate up to NHL teams and the league itself. And I totally agree with you about Nick Leddy. I have called him the best technical power skater the hawks have ever had. But I also agree with Elbows that there is a lot more to playing hockey than skating. I agree with you that Leddy is too young to make a final decision on and disagree with Elbows that he has reached his peak or that Trent Yawney wasn't an effective coach. I agree with the guy who said Leddy could take Oduya's place, and I agree with Ekolb about decisions having to be made with the timing of the end of his contract. Only the naive think the NHL is about hockey first these days. It's money first. So time will tell all. And Savvy I'm with you about hoping Leddy gets the direction he needs, be it here or elsewhere. For me he's going to be a treat to watch. Wherever.

Take care.

Hey Savvy, I'm around. Just busy. And for what it's worth I've been around the game for 50+ years now, played, coached, and worked the game. In the past I have been paid for my services to multiple teams from learn to skate up to NHL teams and the league itself. And I totally agree with you about Nick Leddy. I have called him the best technical power skater the hawks have ever had. But I also agree with Elbows that there is a lot more to playing hockey than skating. I agree with you that Leddy is too young to make a final decision on and disagree with Elbows that he has reached his peak or that Trent Yawney wasn't an effective coach. I agree with the guy who said Leddy could take Oduya's place, and I agree with Ekolb about decisions having to be made with the timing of the end of his contract. Only the naive think the NHL is about hockey first these days. It's money first. So time will tell all. And Savvy I'm with you about hoping Leddy gets the direction he needs, be it here or elsewhere. For me he's going to be a treat to watch. Wherever.

Take care.
- 6628

Very nicely written/worded -- you said it much better than I could have, thank you for adding your voice to the conversation! Please post more as you have time, it's always good to have you around.

Kane & Toews I think you have to leave out of the conversation simply because with their talent they would have succeeded no matter what. Saad and Shaw spent time in Juniors, Kruger overseas in the top league, Bickell and Shaw spent time in the AHL and really Bicks only emerged last yr's CUP run. Before (and since), most of us are saying he's an enigma much like Buff, but the size and potential is there.

We've had the Stalberg conversation before too, and it's clear much of his success due to the personnel here and not simply Vik's talents.

Don't know about the smarts -- I keep hearing that but that doesn't pass the eye test IMO. I don't see a whole lot on ice demonstration that he's hockey dumb as many here say and repeat over and over. I see plenty of hockey dumb from our other D men so to single out Leddy is pretty funny. Guy's got the least giveaways this year so I'd say he's doing some things right. Yeah, I know he's not got the TOI as the other 4 but still, he's not at 1/2 TOI of the top 4.

What I do agree on is about the decision between him and Johnny Oduya. Can't say I'm unhappy with O's play but he's what, 10 yrs older than Nick? Al's point the other day was O at 22 was a far cry from the level Leddy is at today at 22. No way he's reached the pinnacle as a player, we're probably 2 to 4 yrs away from really knowing what he will be.
- savvyone-1

For argument sake let's take Toews & Kane out of the discussion. The point was about you making the point Q doesn't handle rookies or young players well but based on the names and performance of some of the players I mentioned he actually does.....

I think there are a few issues with Leddy.....He was probably brought up a year to soon..but he has improved every year.....except this year. Meaning, I don't see much difference in his play from a year ago....it's only the first month though.

'61 Hawks had talent: should have won a couple.

''69 Cubs had talent: should have won a couple (excellent pitching, excellent balance).

Even after blowing the NLCS in 1984, the Cubs had the best pitching in the league going into 1985: Eckersley, Trout, Sutcliffe, Sanderson, Ruthven. Every one got hurt in 1985.

It's hard to put together a good string - the margin of error - even for the best teams - is so narrow that it doesn't take much to throw it all off track.
- StLBravesFan

Agree generally except for Richard Ruthven. The only good thing he ever did was to give Mel Hall a well-deserved attitude adjustment.

A job isn't about loyalty.

It is about having a high level of production and as a free individual maximizing (and balancing convenience if that is your prerogative) compensation.

It is a silly notion to think they are immoral for wanting market value. Now maybe they like the city and enjoy the organization and are willing to count those as benefits that negate more dollars but that is THEIR personal decision and I don't think you or I are in a position to pass judgment on that.

It is presumptions and arrogant to make that statement.
- fattybeef

Somewhere, a proud tear wells in the eye of Friedrich Engels. Socialist theory on a hockey board ...

Somewhere, a proud tear wells in the eye of Friedrich Engels. Socialist theory on a hockey board ...
- Q...argh

Sports owners like socialism - on the labor cost side.