bring in hexy maybe he can make amends with gagne
- 2Real

hopefully trade everyone over 25

Again, I am blaming that on the coach. It's also on the GM for limiting the coach's options. The coach can only dress the players on his roster.
- Jsaquella

Do you think Giroux is being used any differently than Richards when he was here?

The issue is not just the minutes alone, it's that 2/3rds of the 4th line can't be used for any kind of specialty role. Can't play PP, can't kill penalties, can't slide up to a scoring line...One guy can fight and the other guy can hit...
- Jsaquella

I agree with you, I like some of my 4th line players to be able to help out in areas such as the PK. They have a player who can do that in Hall. My issue is that the 4th line is even being brought up as a factor in the outcome of the game last night. I think it's incredibly off base.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Third Period Woes Strike Again
- bmeltzer

a great start. a bad end. they won't go anywhere until they can figure out how to lock a game down, and get better efforts from more of their key players.

mason was outstanding again. sure he had a chance to stop the breakaway, and i thought his positioning on the winner was a hair off to the right on the initial attack - but i don't blame him on any of the goals. they were quick, grade A chances. he gave them a chance to win.

kimo and schenn....eesh. and G...need to bury one. same for hartnell. he's at least around the net causing some havoc, but he's usually turned the wrong way or off balance or a stick length away from getting to a loose puck. none of it is really working.

One of the problems is that Hall is a fringe NHL player, too. Neither Lavi nor Berube seem to trust him to do any heavy lifting at ES.
- Tomahawk

That's been proven to be true, as well...I'd rather see them recall Holmstrom. Sure he might end up being just another fringe guy, but right now we don't know that...we do know that about Rosehill, Hall et al.

Look at the successful teams in the NHL. Most of them have have a guy or two under ten minutes a night. Most of them have nobody under eight minutes a night.

The Flyers have three regulars under nine minutes per game. Hall is at 8:25, Rinaldo 7:10 and Rosehill at 4:18.

Contrast that with Anaheim, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles & Pittsburgh (zero guys under 8 minutes per game), and Detriot (1 guy, Jordin Tootoo, who is at 7:26)

I agree with you, I like some of my 4th line players to be able to help out in areas such as the PK. They have a player who can do that in Hall. My issue is that the 4th line is even being brought up as a factor in the outcome of the game last night. I think it's incredibly off base.
- MJL

Considering that Rosehill blew coverage on Cogliano's goal, I disagree. That's a pretty big factor in a one goal game

B/c a middle of the road role player says to himself... "poop, if they can bench the captain and the best player on the team for not playing a disciplined game, then I better get my poop together."

It also will motivate a guy like Giroux, who's clearly a competitor.

I'm not saying scratch him or anything like that, but call the (frank)ing guy out. I had coaches in the past call me out in front of the team and the stuff they were calling me out for wasn't even accurate. The coach would come up to me afterwards and say not to worry, that I was doing my job but he wanted to motivate the team by calling out a top player. He knew I had broad shoulders and I would lead by example.
- flyguy12

I wouldn't say Giroux is playing an undisciplined game, with the exception of the diving last night. No he isn't shooting like he should be and isn't getting to the "dirty" areas like normal, but I tend to think he is still not 100% from the surgery.

Benching a player may motivate that player and others, but if it hurts the team more than it helps, which in this case benching G would be more detrimental than uplifting.

Do you think Giroux is being used any differently than Richards when he was here?
- wolfhounds

Nope. The issue there is that they are different players. Richards is capable of being a Selke level defensive player. Giroux isn't.

a great start. a bad end. they won't go anywhere until they can figure out how to lock a game down, and get better efforts from more of their key players.

mason was outstanding again. sure he had a chance to stop the breakaway, and i thought his positioning on the winner was a hair off to the right on the initial attack - but i don't blame him on any of the goals. they were quick, grade A chances. he gave them a chance to win.

kimo and schenn....eesh. and G...need to bury one. same for hartnell. he's at least around the net causing some havoc, but he's usually turned the wrong way or off balance or a stick length away from getting to a loose puck. none of it is really working.
- hammarby31

Mason did stop the first breakaway when Jake made another turnover on the PP, but for the 2nd, I give all the credit in the world to the shooter...he made a sweet move, opened Mason up, and slipped the puck through the 5-hole. It was damn near perfect. Can't fight that. You can, however, work to prevent breakaways on your goalie.

Raffl getting a bad rap playing above his level. The guy would look good on a 3rd line but lacks the finishing ability to play on a 1st. That being said, he looked better last night than both Simmonds and Hartnell so I really don't understand all the hate going his way.

That's been proven to be true, as well...I'd rather see them recall Holmstrom. Sure he might end up being just another fringe guy, but right now we don't know that...we do know that about Rosehill, Hall et al.

Look at the successful teams in the NHL. Most of them have have a guy or two under ten minutes a night. Most of them have nobody under eight minutes a night.

The Flyers have three regulars under nine minutes per game. Hall is at 8:25, Rinaldo 7:10 and Rosehill at 4:18.

Contrast that with Anaheim, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles & Pittsburgh (zero guys under 8 minutes per game), and Detriot (1 guy, Jordin Tootoo, who is at 7:26)
- Jsaquella

And most of those said guys can skate.

Considering that Rosehill blew coverage on Cogliano's goal, I disagree. That's a pretty big factor in a one goal game
- Jsaquella

I think we all agree there is absolutely no reason for Rosehill to be anywhere near the ice, especially when he's not actually getting any time on it, let alone when there are players like Hall and McGinn waiting to take his spot.

I don't disagree Giroux's is a big key area that, if improved, the team would improve. But even if Giroux had 3 goals (assuming it came on a play he didn't end up assisting on this year)... honestly, how different would their record be? I'd like to find that one thing to hang the woes of the team on, but as we all know, the reality is that there's a bunch things adding up to create what we see on the ice.
- eayost

Considering how many games they have lost by 1 goal, perhaps a big difference.

And most of those said guys can skate.
- flyguy12

Exactly. The most successful teams, generally, have 4 lines that they can roll and play regularly throughout the game. Sure there are outliers, like the Maple Leafs, who dress limited guys like Orr and MacLaren.

But for the most part, if you're good, you roll four lines that can play and skate

Every NHL top player plays agianst top players, and plays in key situations. It's why you re-sign a guy to a deal with a8M+ Cap hit. There isn't a single player on this team that isn't capable of playing in his role. The Flyers best players aren't playing like their best players. So let's give them a pass because they just have too much to do! If Giroux played any further out on the perimeter, he'd be in the stands with the season ticket holders drinking beers and eating dollar dogs. But let's blame Rinaldo and Rosehill, and give Giroux a pass!
- MJL

He doesn't get a pass, but he contributed last night as much as Ryan Getzlaf did: One point. Playing in all situations, as Getzlaf did.

The Ducks' other scorers weren't Corey Perry or Teemu Selanne.

It was Andrew Cogliano and Kyle Palmieri and Nick Bonino. While their fourth line was deployed more and more useful than our fourth line, a third-liner and two second-liners beat us.

How is Claude Giroux more culpable for this loss than the 14 other guys who didn't produce?

We clearly disagree, and that's fine. I simply don't believe Claude Giroux's salary means that he should pick up the slack for two other guys who can't get on the ice.

Raffl getting a bad rap playing above his level. The guy would look good on a 3rd line but lacks the finishing ability to play on a 1st. That being said, he looked better last night than both Simmonds and Hartnell so I really don't understand all the hate going his way.
- TheHype

The zambonis look better than Hartsy and Simmer do right now

Raffl getting a bad rap playing above his level. The guy would look good on a 3rd line but lacks the finishing ability to play on a 1st. That being said, he looked better last night than both Simmonds and Hartnell so I really don't understand all the hate going his way.
- TheHype

Exactly. Raffl is giving more than what was expected - hell, most didn't think he'd get out of the AHL this year - whereas most of the other players are giving a lot less.

Raffl getting a bad rap playing above his level. The guy would look good on a 3rd line but lacks the finishing ability to play on a 1st. That being said, he looked better last night than both Simmonds and Hartnell so I really don't understand all the hate going his way.
- TheHype

The "hate" isn't about Raffl, per se.

It's more frustration that Raffl (a guy they signed as a FA from a 2nd tier Swedish league) seems to be their best alternative on hand at the moment.

I wouldn't say Giroux is playing an undisciplined game, with the exception of the diving last night. No he isn't shooting like he should be and isn't getting to the "dirty" areas like normal, but I tend to think he is still not 100% from the surgery.

Benching a player may motivate that player and others, but if it hurts the team more than it helps, which in this case benching G would be more detrimental than uplifting.
- aantny88

There's 71 games left in the season. Berube is a new coach. Now is his opportunity to hold every player accountable and set that precedent moving forward. If I have to bench Giroux for 3 shifts in game 10 to make a point that may last the entire season, then I do it. I'm using G as an example. Could be Timonen, Vinny, Voracek, Hartnell. Any of the veteran top players. Berube did this to a point by moving Timonen of top PP and he had lowest TOI last night amongst Dmen if i remember correctly.

I hear you. Flyers had about 44 minutes to find a third goal and came up empty.
- PLindbergh31

for the the 10th time in 11 games.

The "hate" isn't about Raffl, per se.

It's more frustration that Raffl (a guy they signed as a FA from a 2nd tier Swedish league) seems to be their best alternative on hand at the moment.
- johndewar

Fair enough, I just see people taking it to Mike York/Kyle Calder levels and that's just uncalled for lol

Considering that Rosehill blew coverage on Cogliano's goal, I disagree. That's a pretty big factor in a one goal game
- Jsaquella

i agree with your disagreement.

There's 71 games left in the season. Berube is a new coach. Now is his opportunity to hold every player accountable and set that precedent moving forward. If I have to bench Giroux for 3 shifts in game 10 to make a point that may last the entire season, then I do it. I'm using G as an example. Could be Timonen, Vinny, Voracek, Hartnell. Any of the veteran top players. Berube did this to a point by moving Timonen of top PP and he had lowest TOI last night amongst Dmen if i remember correctly.
- flyguy12

I misunderstood...when you said "benching" I thought you were indicating making G a healthy scratch. However if you are going to hold Mez and Kimmo accountable, by scratching or reducing their ice time, then the same damn thing should be done to other players who are having a wank instead of playing smart hockey, ala Rosehill, Rinaldo, Hartnell and Simmonds.

Mason did stop the first breakaway when Jake made another turnover on the PP, but for the 2nd, I give all the credit in the world to the shooter...he made a sweet move, opened Mason up, and slipped the puck through the 5-hole. It was damn near perfect. Can't fight that. You can, however, work to prevent breakaways on your goalie.
- wolfhounds

he made a nice move and executed. credit to the shooter. mason stayed with him, but his mistake was technical. when he pushed right and opened the five hole his left arm didn't follow the rest of his body. it stayed left and the stick blade never traveled to help cover the five hole. even if it had come across it's possible the puck still would have slipped through. it was a stoppable shot, but it wasn't like he played it horrendously. the flyers need to limit these chances. he's seeing too much of this night in and night out.

mason's been near perfect. the shots getting by him have been of last night's variety...not soft.

Exactly. The most successful teams, generally, have 4 lines that they can roll and play regularly throughout the game. Sure there are outliers, like the Maple Leafs, who dress limited guys like Orr and MacLaren.

But for the most part, if you're good, you roll four lines that can play and skate
- Jsaquella

if a 4th line wasn't needed and was unimportant, there wouldn't be one.