A lot of posters, myself included were clamoring for a player like Adam Hall to take some of those hard minutes off of Giroux. Well they have Hall and they aren't using him as much as they should. So Giroux can get more offensive zone starts. Whose fault is that? I think the blame is being incorrectly placed on 4th line players such as Rosehill and Rinaldo. Hall is currently eing scratched. If anyone shoulkd be blamed for how Giroux is being used, it is the Coaching staff who should be blamed.
- MJL

Let's not forget Homer chose to alienate and royally piss off Gagne, a guy who could be the scoring leader on this team right now, who apparently is friends with Vinny, and who is a good 2-way player and can kill penalties.

And continuing to dress guys like Rosehill and Rinaldo after they have bad penalties and scratching Meszaros for 5 for doing the same thing doesn't send the wrong message?

They need to get offense out of Hartnell. If he's not scoring, he's a 4th line albatross on the cap
- Jsaquella

That's what he is when he plays the game like he thinks he's a playmaker. He needs to be going north and south, agitating and standing in front of the net. He can't be trying to throw backhand sauce through the neutral zone. When's the last time you saw a guy on this team drive the net w/the puck?

I completely agree w/you on Rosehill & Rinaldo, but benching guys like that doesn't send a msg to the team. Stapling a Giroux, Voracek, Hartnell, Vinny L to the bench does.

A lot of posters, myself included were clamoring for a player like Adam Hall to take some of those hard minutes off of Giroux. Well they have Hall and they aren't using him as much as they should. So Giroux can get more offensive zone starts. Whose fault is that? I think the blame is being incorrectly placed on 4th line players such as Rosehill and Rinaldo. Hall is currently eing scratched. If anyone shoulkd be blamed for how Giroux is being used, it is the Coaching staff who should be blamed.
- MJL

You and I rarely agree on anything, but I definitely concur with your assessment of the coaching staff making poor lineup decisions. Right now, Hall should be in the lineup and not Rosehill. If Hartnell and Simmons continue to play like they have been, they would spend some time in the pressbox. They make some of the worst decisions I have ever seen pro hockey players make. Mezsaros sat for 5 games and was held accountable, so why not them? Same goes for Rinaldo. McGinn should be in the lineup and possibly be on the top line with G and Vinny. Raffl could play 4th line minutes with Talbot and Hall.

Quick someone take him to lombard street so he can score!
- PhillaBully

Maybe that'll loosen him up...let's do it!

That's what he is when he plays the game like he thinks he's a playmaker. He needs to be going north and south, agitating and standing in front of the net. He can't be trying to throw backhand sauce through the neutral zone. When's the last time you saw a guy on this team drive the net w/the puck?

I completely agree w/you on Rosehill & Rinaldo, but benching guys like that doesn't send a msg to the team. Stapling a Giroux, Voracek, Hartnell, Vinny L to the bench does.
- flyguy12

What purpose does benching G serve? You think the team is bad now, see how pitiful they are by sitting him!

Let's not forget Homer chose to alienate and royally piss off Gagne, a guy who could be the scoring leader on this team right now, who apparently is friends with Vinny, and who is a good 2-way player and can kill penalties.
- wolfhounds

i was real bumbed out about that. i would think he would be a great player to have on the third line.

Maybe that'll loosen him up...let's do it!
- wolfhounds

that street is notorious for loosening people up...g would have a asian hatrick the next game.

You figure 20 goals in a season is about 1 every other game, so G should have 3 to 6 goals right now, taking the streakiness of scoring into consideration. He's been out on every PP we've had (usually losing the opening faceoff), so he's being given every opportunity to put a few home. I don't think anybody is asking he stay on pace with Ovi, Stamkos or Crosby, but he should have 1 by now.
- wolfhounds

I don't disagree Giroux's is a big key area that, if improved, the team would improve. But even if Giroux had 3 goals (assuming it came on a play he didn't end up assisting on this year)... honestly, how different would their record be? I'd like to find that one thing to hang the woes of the team on, but as we all know, the reality is that there's a bunch things adding up to create what we see on the ice.

The reason this topic frustrates me is that it's easy to single out Claude Giroux. He's actually on the ice, playing against some of the best players/defenders the other team, the rest of the NHL, has to offer.

Other guys who aren't even good enough to play? Oh, well, hey. Those fourth-liners who can't do anything at an NHL level that Claude Giroux does? Well, they can't be a problem. Players who can't play who don't do anything as well as Claude Giroux does? Well, just have Giroux pick up their slack!

Jay Rosehill and Zac Rinaldo can't score or kill penalties or be on the ice for a defensive zone draw? Don't worry, folks! Claude Giroux will do it all!

Ridiculous.
- AllInForFlyers

Every NHL top player plays agianst top players, and plays in key situations. It's why you re-sign a guy to a deal with a8M+ Cap hit. There isn't a single player on this team that isn't capable of playing in his role. The Flyers best players aren't playing like their best players. So let's give them a pass because they just have too much to do! If Giroux played any further out on the perimeter, he'd be in the stands with the season ticket holders drinking beers and eating dollar dogs. But let's blame Rinaldo and Rosehill, and give Giroux a pass!

I saw some good things out there last night, but I'll skip over them to what really Irked me.

First, Simmonds has to go. He doesn't fit on this team. While he might not get charged for turnovers like some other players, he has horrible puck control. And this is key. On a second line, Simmonds inability to handle the puck can kill any sustained offense. He is useless on the forecheck because once recovers the puck its headed the other way. But if you put him on the 3rd line, he doesnt fit there either. He isnt good enough defensively for what Berube wants the 3rd line to do, check other top lines. And any offense they do manage will result in the puck going the other way on the other teams top line players. If Berube was using the 3rd line to match-up against other teams 3rd lines he would be fine there, but he is not.

Which brings me to the Second issue from last night. Berube's decisons on the PP. He needed to pull Mason right away to give your team a full 2 minutes of 6-4. With your record you cant afford not to go all out. And his decision to put both Hartnell AND Simmonds out there is mind boggling. Simmonds has no use out there when Hartnell is out there. The lines should have been:

Hartnell-Lecavalier-Giroux-Read
Streit-Voracek

If you dont score fight away and someone starts getting tired throw out Schenn and Raffl. But at no point should Simmonds AND Hartnell been out there. Especially if you wanted any type of puck control.

A lot of posters, myself included were clamoring for a player like Adam Hall to take some of those hard minutes off of Giroux. Well they have Hall and they aren't using him as much as they should. So Giroux can get more offensive zone starts. Whose fault is that? I think the blame is being incorrectly placed on 4th line players such as Rosehill and Rinaldo. Hall is currently eing scratched. If anyone shoulkd be blamed for how Giroux is being used, it is the Coaching staff who should be blamed.
- MJL

Pretty sure that I have been blaming the coaching staff for it. Berube is the one choosing to dress that 4th line. Berube is the one choosing to scratch Hall and who continues to decide to dress a 4th line that can't effectively play, which forces him to use Giroux more than he should in defensive roles.

It's all cause and effect. If he decides to dress Rosehill over Hall, that forces him to use Giroux for defensive zone draws that Hall could otherwise handle. My point about the 4th line is as simple as that. By choosing to dress Rosehill over more capable players, the coach limits his options.

i doubt anyone is saying that the issues are only the 4th line. i think the argument is that since the 4th line is so utterly useless and can't be counted on for anything (compared to say detroit's 4th line most years that could actually shut down other teams, provide energy and score) the load falls up onto the the other players and the load is unevenly distributed, which contributes to the team's myriad issues
- hogweed

The Coaching staff has the ability to play a different 4th line. And do you honestly think if they did, that the outcome of the game would've changed? There are plenty of teams that play 4th line players 5 minutes a night. It was not a factor in the game.

Pretty sure that I have been blaming the coaching staff for it. Berube is the one choosing to dress that 4th line. Berube is the one choosing to scratch Hall and who continues to decide to dress a 4th line that can't effectively play, which forces him to use Giroux more than he should in defensive roles.

It's all cause and effect. If he decides to dress Rosehill over Hall, that forces him to use Giroux for defensive zone draws that Hall could otherwise handle. My point about the 4th line is as simple as that. By choosing to dress Rosehill over more capable players, the coach limits his options.
- Jsaquella

Look at the games where Hall has been in the lineup. Hall still isn't taking many draws, And Giroux is taking the same. Nothing changed last night in terms of how Giroux was used, because they scratched Hall and played Rosehill.

The Coaching staff has the ability to play a different 4th line. And do you honestly think if they did, that the outcome of the game would've changed? There are plenty of teams that play 4th line players 5 minutes a night. It was not a factor in the game.
- MJL

The issue is not just the minutes alone, it's that 2/3rds of the 4th line can't be used for any kind of specialty role. Can't play PP, can't kill penalties, can't slide up to a scoring line...One guy can fight and the other guy can hit...

I don't disagree Giroux's is a big key area that, if improved, the team would improve. But even if Giroux had 3 goals (assuming it came on a play he didn't end up assisting on this year)... honestly, how different would their record be? I'd like to find that one thing to hang the woes of the team on, but as we all know, the reality is that there's a bunch things adding up to create what we see on the ice.
- eayost

No doubt, there's quite a laundry list of problems for this team, one of which being their expected top defenseman playing 15 minutes last night. Not good.

Look at the games where Hall has been in the lineup. Hall still isn't taking many draws, And Giroux is taking the same. Nothing changed last night in terms of how Giroux was used, because they scratched Hall and played Rosehill.
- MJL

Again, I am blaming that on the coach. It's also on the GM for limiting the coach's options. The coach can only dress the players on his roster.

Giroux was invisible or horrible. I don't care about his nice pass on the power play he has done nothing at all this year. He needs to wake up or something he has been nothing but horrible. Hartnell was horrible as well. They pissed me off so much yesterday. they are not the only reason why the flyers have been horrible but its a big part of it. They have been losing games buy one goal and if Giroux scores a tad bit some of those losses would become at least an overtime game. I just don't see anything special with Giroux he really needs a wake up call. He is too good to be playing like this

What purpose does benching G serve? You think the team is bad now, see how pitiful they are by sitting him!
- aantny88

B/c a middle of the road role player says to himself... "poop, if they can bench the captain and the best player on the team for not playing a disciplined game, then I better get my poop together."

It also will motivate a guy like Giroux, who's clearly a competitor.

I'm not saying scratch him or anything like that, but call the (frank)ing guy out. I had coaches in the past call me out in front of the team and the stuff they were calling me out for wasn't even accurate. The coach would come up to me afterwards and say not to worry, that I was doing my job but he wanted to motivate the team by calling out a top player. He knew I had broad shoulders and I would lead by example.

Pretty sure that I have been blaming the coaching staff for it. Berube is the one choosing to dress that 4th line. Berube is the one choosing to scratch Hall and who continues to decide to dress a 4th line that can't effectively play, which forces him to use Giroux more than he should in defensive roles.

It's all cause and effect. If he decides to dress Rosehill over Hall, that forces him to use Giroux for defensive zone draws that Hall could otherwise handle. My point about the 4th line is as simple as that. By choosing to dress Rosehill over more capable players, the coach limits his options.
- Jsaquella

One of the problems is that Hall is a fringe NHL player, too. Neither Lavi nor Berube seem to trust him to do any heavy lifting at ES.

No, that's clearly not my point, but a rehash I would expect from a 12 year old.

Yes, they should get him more help which I think they did by putting Vinny on the line. I can do without Raffl as a better finisher would be a better option. In the end elite players step their game up.
- flyers2001

I agree that Raffl is ot an ideal 1st line Winger. But he was the better player over Giroux last night on that line.

time to blow this (frank)er up

Let's not forget Homer chose to alienate and royally piss off Gagne, a guy who could be the scoring leader on this team right now, who apparently is friends with Vinny, and who is a good 2-way player and can kill penalties.
- wolfhounds

bring in hexy maybe he can make amends with gagne

I agree that Raffl is ot an ideal 1st line Winger. But he was the better player over Giroux last night on that line.
- MJL

seeing raffl on the first line reminds me of seeing mike york and kyle calder on the top line

Again, I am blaming that on the coach. It's also on the GM for limiting the coach's options. The coach can only dress the players on his roster.
- Jsaquella

are we blaming berube yet? or does he get the rest of the season as a gimme

The issue is not just the minutes alone, it's that 2/3rds of the 4th line can't be used for any kind of specialty role. Can't play PP, can't kill penalties, can't slide up to a scoring line...One guy can fight and the other guy can hit...
- Jsaquella

I agree w/this. Hall can take Giroux off the PK or at least alternate PK shifts w/him. Rosehill brings nothing to the table. At least Rinaldo can forecheck and at times draw penalties when he's playing his role well.