the Flyers beat the Isles and something like 12 pages of comments. they lose to Anaheim.....33

Ive been watching every game this season and I will tell you this. Im as tired of them losing and top players struggling as anyone else, but I think they are getting better with every game and they are still learning Berubes system. They had a hiccup against Anaheim in which they failed to close the game out, Anaheim is a good team and have their 'Ducks' in a row, no pun intended. lol So they knew what to do to get back in the game and how to to execute it. Flyers are still learning in a way. I think they will turn the corner fairly soon and progresssively get better as the season goes on. In reality.... how long can players like Giroux, Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, Timonen, Voracek remain for the most part ineffective on offense? Once they get going we'll be fine. I mean its not like Giroux is gonna finish the season with 0g 40a 40pts in 82 games. Hartnell and Timonen remain pointless all year??? No way in hell.........

the Flyers beat the Isles and something like 12 pages of comments. they lose to Anaheim.....33
- nastyflyergirl

I thought 33 was low

Sure I do. You look at the moves they made, and you know what they wanted to do. In the 12/13 off season they made UFA offers of over 100M to Suter and Parise. They sent an offer sheet for a contract of over 100M for Weber. They singed Bryzgalov to a huge UFA deal in the recent past. This past off season they signed Lecavalier and Streit to big free agent deals. But were led to believe that cap mismanagement is stopping the Flyers from making the moves they want to make.
- MJL

no. you don't. you didn't have conversations with anyone in management. you have no idea that the moves they made were the ones that were the initial plan and desire all along. it's also entirely possible they in fact did make the intended moves they wanted. but the truth is you don't know. it's amusing to me that you're standing ground here because you've said countless times in the past regarding various situations to others that we as a fan base don't know what's going on behind closed doors and it's all speculation. but in this case, because the flyers managed to operate under the cap and make moves, that equates to you knowing these are in fact the ones they wanted to make...again, wanted meaning first choice.

to say that the 3.5 million dollars of wasted contracts on 3 players had no ramifications simply because they were able to make moves is naive. i'm not suggesting that kind of money gets in the way of them making a huge offer to a player they've targeted, like weber. it clearly doesn't. but once a player like that gets signed, they have to figure out how to make it work within the rest of the structure, and that little teeny tiny miniscule 3.5 million dollars can come into play in making other moves...not ones they would like to make. nothing exists in a vacuum.

this all goes back to the conversation of trusting flyers management to identify and stick to a plan moving forward now while the team is experiencing growing pains. i have 40 years of evidence that suggest they won't.

Knock yourself out! We've discussed this many times previously. As a fan, emotions are involved with a trade and an initial spontaneous reaction is made. That's only human. After that, you sit back and with clarity and objectivity, you look at a deal from a different perspective. And you gain an understanding on why a deal was made.
- MJL

No...this is about not getting a puck mover. this is you questioning why they acquired this type of dman specifically. we're not even discussing the value of the respective plyrs. your defence of homer at this point is right there w/ Baghdad Bob...

"...Now if the Flyers had a big hole for that level of D man, I'd be okay with it. But they didn't. So it's a little puzzling. So we'll see what else happens."

" I like Schenn as a young defenseman. But now I'm wondering what else is going to happen. Because I don't understand it if there aren't some dominoes here."

"I think when you have Coburn, Grossmann, And Schenn, they're all about the same. Especially the latter two."

Ive been watching every game this season and I will tell you this. Im as tired of them losing and top players struggling as anyone else, but I think they are getting better with every game and they are still learning Berubes system. They had a hiccup against Anaheim in which they failed to close the game out, Anaheim is a good team and have their 'Ducks' in a row, no pun intended. lol So they knew what to do to get back in the game and how to to execute it. Flyers are still learning in a way. I think they will turn the corner fairly soon and progresssively get better as the season goes on. In reality.... how long can players like Giroux, Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, Timonen, Voracek remain for the most part ineffective on offense? Once they get going we'll be fine. I mean its not like Giroux is gonna finish the season with 0g 40a 40pts in 82 games. Hartnell and Timonen remain pointless all year??? No way in hell.........
- GOA88

i think most expected growing pains this season, and we're seeing that. it's going to take time. their best players need to be significantly better.

Heres my opinion, why is everybody so upset that we traded JVR? He sucked as a flyer, he wasnt going to pan out in Philly. JVR was traded for Schenn because we had a hole on defense with Carles absence. Schenn is still young and rounding into form, it takes more time for young d-men to develop, I mean does anyone notice that he is among the league leaders in hits and blocked shots? The moment we traded JVR, he started to have success. Some players play better in different organizations. Richards and Carter were not going to deliver a Stanley Cup as the top players and the Flyers had a better player in Giroux that they would rather invest in. This team we have currently assembled is young, with a good mix of grit and skill with plenty of speed up front, they have (2) very good puck moving defensemen and powerplay QB's in Timonen and Streit, Even Coburn can skate well. This is not the GM's fault. We have a bunch of players on this team that were 1st rd draft picks at one point. The skill is there. On paper this team is deadly, on the ice they are unorganized and have no chemistry. No team in the league is going to win much without chemistry. Does anyone discount how Laviolette failed to have this team prepared at the start of the season? Totally unacceptable. Holmgren made moves that he needed to make at the time to fill certain holes.
- GOA88

we still had carle when we made the trade and JVR earned his contract by his showing vs BOS in the plyoffs. he had an injury plagued yr the nxt season at the same time that schenn was barely hanging on in TOR.

this is a poorly constructed team of mismatched parts that that has a mainly young forward core combined w/ an aging, expensive d core and a gamble in goal.

they went from 2010 finalist to where they are at now and if they don't turn things around drastically in the nxt 7-8 gms, they will likely miss the playoffs 2 yrs in a row...this is a re-tool gone off the rails. do you really want homer making more deals to get them out of their fix?

I imagine there's a room in your home full of broken chairs
- funmaster18

Ive been watching every game this season and I will tell you this. Im as tired of them losing and top players struggling as anyone else, but I think they are getting better with every game and they are still learning Berubes system. They had a hiccup against Anaheim in which they failed to close the game out, Anaheim is a good team and have their 'Ducks' in a row, no pun intended. lol So they knew what to do to get back in the game and how to to execute it. Flyers are still learning in a way. I think they will turn the corner fairly soon and progresssively get better as the season goes on. In reality.... how long can players like Giroux, Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, Timonen, Voracek remain for the most part ineffective on offense? Once they get going we'll be fine. I mean its not like Giroux is gonna finish the season with 0g 40a 40pts in 82 games. Hartnell and Timonen remain pointless all year??? No way in hell.........
- GOA88

No...this is about not getting a puck mover. this is you questioning why they acquired this type of dman specifically. we're not even discussing the value of the respective plyrs. your defence of homer at this point is right there w/ Baghdad Bob...

"...Now if the Flyers had a big hole for that level of D man, I'd be okay with it. But they didn't. So it's a little puzzling. So we'll see what else happens."

" I like Schenn as a young defenseman. But now I'm wondering what else is going to happen. Because I don't understand it if there aren't some dominoes here."

"I think when you have Coburn, Grossmann, And Schenn, they're all about the same. Especially the latter two."
- isaiah520

And I've explained my line of thinking there. And I was wrong in my initial reaction to the trade. You can go back in time and look at old posts all you want. And please let me know if that's what we're going to be doing for now on. Because I can do the same. I addressed this topic on a previous post on this thread not that long ago. Just as a GM can change his mind on a player, so can a fan! It's called looking at things objectively after the initial emotion has worn off.

no. you don't. you didn't have conversations with anyone in management. you have no idea that the moves they made were the ones that were the initial plan and desire all along. it's also entirely possible they in fact did make the intended moves they wanted. but the truth is you don't know. it's amusing to me that you're standing ground here because you've said countless times in the past regarding various situations to others that we as a fan base don't know what's going on behind closed doors and it's all speculation. but in this case, because the flyers managed to operate under the cap and make moves, that equates to you knowing these are in fact the ones they wanted to make...again, wanted meaning first choice.


- hammarby31

I know what moves they made and attempted to make as fact. I know that they've thrown boatloads of money at players, traded for players. And they've made huge moves involving lots of cap space in player transactions and attempted player transactions. So what should I base my opinion on? What we do know, or what we think might have happened? Should we base it on facts that we know, or the pure speculation that is floating around? If you or others want to base criticism on what you think might have happened, knock yourself out. My opinion is completely based on what has happened. I find it humorous that you think I've applied any other line of thinking on this issue

to say that the 3.5 million dollars of wasted contracts on 3 players had no ramifications simply because they were able to make moves is naive. i'm not suggesting that kind of money gets in the way of them making a huge offer to a player they've targeted, like weber. it clearly doesn't. but once a player like that gets signed, they have to figure out how to make it work within the rest of the structure, and that little teeny tiny miniscule 3.5 million dollars can come into play in making other moves...not ones they would like to make. nothing exists in a vacuum.


- hammarby31

It's not naive at all. It's based on my understanding of how the Cap works, and what mechanisms are available to a team to make moves. And I know it inside and out. There is a lot of misunderstanding out there in the fan world on the Cap and the Philosophies on how to work in it. That is clear in reading the discussions on it.

this all goes back to the conversation of trusting flyers management to identify and stick to a plan moving forward now while the team is experiencing growing pains. i have 40 years of evidence that suggest they won't.
- hammarby31

Most of the current Flyers management wasn't in a management position for the last 40 years. The current evidence to this point from the Carter/ Richards trades until now suggests that they are sticking to the plan.

we still had carle when we made the trade and JVR earned his contract by his showing vs BOS in the plyoffs. he had an injury plagued yr the nxt season at the same time that schenn was barely hanging on in TOR.

this is a poorly constructed team of mismatched parts that that has a mainly young forward core combined w/ an aging, expensive d core and a gamble in goal.

they went from 2010 finalist to where they are at now and if they don't turn things around drastically in the nxt 7-8 gms, they will likely miss the playoffs 2 yrs in a row...this is a re-tool gone off the rails. do you really want homer making more deals to get them out of their fix?
- isaiah520

I have complete trust in Holmgren. And again, there is a failure to include things that have happened that is beyond the GM's control such as the Pronger injury. Shows a lack of objectivity.

And I've explained my line of thinking there. And I was wrong in my initial reaction to the trade. You can go back in time and look at old posts all you want. And please let me know if that's what we're going to be doing for now on. Because I can do the same. I addressed this topic on a previous post on this thread not that long ago. Just as a GM can change his mind on a player, so can a fan! It's called looking at things objectively after the initial emotion has worn off.
- MJL

so you don't look at schenn and grossmann as similar plyrs? and the flyers still don't need a puck mover? certainly you can't argue either of those points, so therefore...

I have complete trust in Holmgren. And again, there is a failure to include things that have happened that is beyond the GM's control such as the Pronger injury. Shows a lack of objectivity.
- MJL

like Bill said...a lack of a succession plan on D...homer's on borrowed time...

so you don't look at schenn and grossmann as similar plyrs? and the flyers still don't need a puck mover? certainly you can't argue either of those points, so therefore...
- isaiah520

I think it's irrelvant that Schenn and Grossmann are similar players when looking at the trade. And I've made enough posts on the subject of the Flyers defense and what the need is, that you shouldn't need to ask that question. There is no therfore.

like Bill said...a lack of a succession plan on D...homer's on borrowed time...
- isaiah520

I disagree with that. I'd love to know what a succession plan is to replace Pronger. And I'd love to know what detroit's succession plan is to replace Lidstrom. And how Boston is going to replace Chara when he's done. Losing a franchise #1 defenseman to a career ending injury is a huge blow. There's no such thing as a succession plan to replace that. And as ususal, a GM is limited to what is available. Either on the open market, or trade market.

the Flyers beat the Isles and something like 12 pages of comments. they lose to Anaheim.....33
- nastyflyergirl

weekend blogs get less posts across the board though don't they?

a lot of the long discussuments go on in here on weekdays

I disagree with that. I'd love to know what a succession plan is to replace Pronger. And I'd love to know what detroit's succession plan is to replace Lidstrom. And how Boston is going to replace Chara when he's done. Losing a franchise #1 defenseman to a career ending injury is a huge blow. There's no such thing as a succession plan to replace that. And as ususal, a GM is limited to what is available. Either on the open market, or trade market.
- MJL

you're retooling your team w/ the big trades...draft hamilton....make a trade, something. he's the GM and he's failed to get it done...bottom line, we don't have the d we need in 13-14 do we? what's he done to position this team better on d for the nxt 2-3 yrs? when do results matter for you?

I think it's irrelvant that Schenn and Grossmann are similar players when looking at the trade. And I've made enough posts on the subject of the Flyers defense and what the need is, that you shouldn't need to ask that question. There is no therfore.
- MJL

no, therefore is you've contradicted your argument on the limited scope of the type of plyr he is and what we needed at the time...what we still need now.

oh but i know you could go 20+ pgs demonstrating your "complete trust" of homer, but I'll pass...cause by the end of this season, the tale will be told and i don't think your trust will be complete anymore...

you're retooling your team w/ the big trades...draft hamilton....make a trade, something. he's the GM and he's failed to get it done...bottom line, we don't have the d we need in 13-14 do we? what's he done to position this team better on d for the nxt 2-3 yrs? when do results matter for you?
- isaiah520

You act like the door is closed and there won't be any other opportunities to make other moves. A perfect example is the Bobrovsky/Bryzgalov situation. He blew that also, but here are now with a Goalie who looks very good in Mason who is still young at 25. A lot changes in a year, and even more so in the next 2-3 years. You act like it's a done deal. And here we are again back on the Organizational savior in Hamilton. I just wonder of the Flyers will ever be able to overcome not drafting Hamilton. Might as well fold up and sell the team!

no, therefore is you've contradicted your argument on the limited scope of the type of plyr he is and what we needed at the time...what we still need now.

oh but i know you could go 20+ pgs demonstrating your "complete trust" of homer, but I'll pass...cause by the end of this season, the tale will be told and i don't think your trust will be complete anymore...
- isaiah520

I didn't contradict anything. This Season is not the only season that matters. Again some forget that this wasn't expected to be an overnight re-tooling. If you think the tale will be told at the end of this Season with this team and it's future, you're kidding yourself. Again, way on the narrow scope side of things. This is not a window closing situation for this team, the window is just beginning to open. What a poor perspective on the situation

Paul MacLean. He did an amazing job with the Senators last year, and also Skip picked my first choice and you took my second
- Jsaquella

You're the walrus