They will have to be smart about making moves. As a whole the pieces don;t fit. But individually they should be able to move them to get some assets.

They might not get their full perceived value in some or most of those deals, but it's what they face.
- Jsaquella

Two questions:

Would you aggressively look to move 24-year-old Wayne Simmonds?

Would you aggressively look to move 28-year-old Braydon Coburn?

To me, those are the two questions that determine where we're going -- both because they are at the age, salary-level and skillsets that mean we would get the most return -- yet those are also two players you can win with and would likely have to replace when you are good.

No doubt. I hope the Flyers have some sort of plan, but they are definitely stuck between ice and a hard place. They don't want to play certain players very much, then bring up some kinds, but then trading that player (Mesz for instance) becomes h=harder, and you certainly don't get full market value.
- wolfhounds

They might have to face that they won't get market value. Timonen looks like he's dead on his skates. I can't see anyone giving up much for him. Hartnell has 12 point in his last 39 games. With a lot of years and money left on his deal, it's hard to see teams lining up there. Meszaros has been on the block for months...nobody wants him.

Fortunately two of those deals are off the books in July anyhow.

Two questions:

Would you aggressively look to move 25-year-old Wayne Simmonds?

Would you aggressively look to move 28-year-old Braydon Coburn?

To me, those are the two questions that determine where we're going -- both because they are at the age, salary-level and skillsets that mean we would get the most return -- yet those are also two players you can win with and would likely have to replace when you are good.
- AllInForFlyers

I'd be open to moving either one of them, but it would have to be a case of maximizing a return. Those are the kind of guys you need to get full value for, whereas others, you have to see losing their contract as part of the benefit.

Reading through the first few pages, it seems esentially everyone is getting blame on this team, to some degree, which they do deserve to.

The one thing I havent heard mentioned once is management. The biggest consistency for years now, and the big wig crew that put together this sack of poop on ice.

It starts at the top, with Holmgren/Snider's ass. They have screwed this team into cap hell, been horrible with cap management, made stupid deals and left two coaches now, without the weapons needed to compete at an NHL level.

Its frustrating to say the least. Management is the #1 issue to me, they built this poop.
- flyer_nutter

This team isn't in Cap hell. Right now they can take on a player or players totaling a $3,829,573 AAV. There are 8 teams who currently have less available Cap space to use then the Flyers do. Including Boston, Anaheim, Toronto, Montreal, San Jose, and Detroit. That they've mismanaged the Cap is a myth.

We all have our drums we like to beat

Edit: Sometimes its good to listen to other fans. Of diffent teams to be specific. Say what you will about the Flyers being hated, but I am pretty damn sure Holmgren is thought of as a moron around the league. He started out hot, with a bunch of cap space, but doesnt know how to function/build properly in a cap enviroment.

Most expensive D in the NHL, cant even roll a 4th line. The line goes on and on.
- flyer_nutter

Who exactly around the League thinks that Holmgren is a moron, and where are you getting this information from?
The Cap has zero to do with how they use their 4th line.

This team isn't in Cap hell. Right now they can take on a player or players totaling a $3,829,573 AAV. There are 8 teams who currently have less available Cap space to use then the Flyers do. Including Boston, Anaheim, Toronto, Montreal, San Jose, and Detroit. That they've mismanaged the Cap is a myth.
- MJL

ok....their getting the least value for their cap dollars in the league

They might have to face that they won't get market value. Timonen looks like he's dead on his skates. I can't see anyone giving up much for him. Hartnell has 12 point in his last 39 games. With a lot of years and money left on his deal, it's hard to see teams lining up there. Meszaros has been on the block for months...nobody wants him.

Fortunately two of those deals are off the books in July anyhow.
- Jsaquella

So many typos last post...

But if they have no faith in certain players, and don't plan on playing much or at all, package them up for players and/or draft picks and bring some kids up for experience. I'm not talking about dumping the whole team, but I'm not a fan of half-measures or passive/aggressive handling of players. Make a decision, execute, move on.

I'd be open to moving either one of them, but it would have to be a case of maximizing a return. Those are the kind of guys you need to get full value for, whereas others, you have to see losing their contract as part of the benefit.
- Jsaquella

Timonen and Meszaros...they don't matter as much because they're UFA. I can honestly say the Lecavalier's been better than I thought, and Mark Streit's been exactly what I thought. Hopefully, they will continue to at least be neutral-to-positive for another couple of years.

But Hartnell, and the combination of Grossmann/Luke Schenn...right now, they are struggling in some crucial areas of the game. All three of them on the roster just isn't working.

So many typos last post...

But if they have no faith in certain players, and don't plan on playing much or at all, package them up for players and/or draft picks and bring some kids up for experience. I'm not talking about dumping the whole team, but I'm not a fan of half-measures or passive/aggressive handling of players. Make a decision, execute, move on.
- wolfhounds

I'm sure there are guys that they're trying to get rid of, like Meszaros, that they simply can't move because other teams have little or no interest.

Using numbers or that good teams generally roll four capable lines?
- Jsaquella

I should have winked.

Timonen and Meszaros...they don't matter as much because they're UFA. I can honestly say the Lecavalier's been better than I thought, and Mark Streit's been exactly what I thought. Hopefully, they will continue to at least be neutral-to-positive for another couple of years.

But Hartnell, and the combination of Grossmann/Luke Schenn...right now, they are struggling in some crucial areas of the game. All three of them on the roster just isn't working.
- AllInForFlyers

Hartnell would be a deal that you'd have to work on, probably take back an equally bad contract or situation, to get another team to take him right now.

Luke Schenn or Grossmann might be able to be packaged with a more desirable asset to acquire needed pieces.

I should have winked.
- hammarby31

I figured. I been home sick all day, so I'm dehydrated and a little loopy

There was no puck battle on the Cogliano goal. There was a giveaway by Grossmann.
- MJL

I'm talking about the winning goal.

Hartnell would be a deal that you'd have to work on, probably take back an equally bad contract or situation, to get another team to take him right now.

Luke Schenn or Grossmann might be able to be packaged with a more desirable asset to acquire needed pieces.
- Jsaquella

grossman and couturier for eberle?

Anyone have confidence in a proper re-build in the cap era with Holmgren at the helm, or more importantly Snider?
- flyer_nutter

Absolutely.

Absolutely.
- MJL

Why?

the sharks were able to send douglas murray to the pens for 2 2nd rounders. the flyers have to be patient, suck, and they will be able to move some of these contracts

I'm sure there are guys that they're trying to get rid of, like Meszaros, that they simply can't move because other teams have little or no interest.
- Jsaquella

Not playing him for a while likely didn't help...

Anyway, here's to hoping the Flyers make smart moves, and not just in potential trades but in who they sit, who they play and how they use them.

Not playing him for a while likely didn't help...

Anyway, here's to hoping the Flyers make smart moves, and not just in potential trades but in who they sit, who they play and how they use them.
- wolfhounds

His contract is awful for trading, besides his level of play. He's not appealing to teams looking for help getting to the cap floor and saving money because his cap hit is lower than his salary.

Conversely, his cap hit isn't low enough to attract a bigger budget team that could use defensive depth. It's a catch 22.

It's not as dire as some would have you believe, and it is fixable...but they have to be smart about it.

I just want them to win, or at least give themselves the best opportunity to do so.

Mistakes are made all the time, and some of them can cost people their jobs. That happens. You won't win every trade you make, and some draft picks won't pan out. Some young players will never develop.

But what frustrates me about this team is that they don't give themselves the best chance to do anything well.

If you say, "Come hell or high water, we're not trading Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier, they are our future," then you double-down and give them wingers. You support them. You don't move Schenn out of the middle and only put him back when Vincent Lecavalier gets hurt.

Sean Couturier's looked much better with Read and Simmonds as his wingers, right? No one would dispute that, I would think?

If we can't do anything about the defense right now, fine. I get it. But is it such a crime, then, to keep playing Gus? I don't want to start in on Andrej Meszaros again, but if Gus can't play, is Meszaros really the answer? We already know the answer to that, right?

If we're going young, then go young and support the young players as best you can. If you want to win now, then make everybody available for trade and address the issues you have.

But don't sign Lecavalier and Streit to long-term deals, bring back Timonen at $6 million per, play Meszaros, then tell us that the young players are untouchable.

Either get better with the young players performing, or use the young players to get better by cashing them in.

But this unholy mix of trying to do both simply is not working.
- AllInForFlyers

You cannot have a team of all young players without veterans to support the mix of players. You need experienced leadership on the ice. And we also don't know that Gustafsson is the answer, but they should find out. Nothing wrong with having competition for ice time. And if you intend to try and trade Meszaros at some point. You can't just let him wither and die in the press box.

It's better than using a slap dash, knee jerk approach.

Had the Flyers planned better they have Matt Carle at a $4.75mm cap hit and don't have 4 defensemen who are primarily stay at home, less mobile guys with questionable puck skills.

They have either Luke Schenn or they have Nicklas Grossmann. Not both.
- Jsaquella

How would they have gotten Carle at 4.75M cap hit?

grossman and couturier for eberle?
- Just5

Don't see that being possible.

This.

With every shortcut/leap forward they tried to make, they shortened the window of that original rebuild group by a good margin. That window then basically slammed shut after they traded Richards/Carter and Pronger went down.

The present squad is just a mess... I'd like to think a new window is about to open for this group, with all the youngsters on the team and the ones on the horizon, but then I look at the unmovable commitments they've made to post-apex players and I wonder how the hell they're going to be able to make improvements and retain players moving forward.
- Tomahawk

So far both Streit and Lecavalier look like very good signings by Holmgren. I don't see how bringing those two in is going to prevent them from improving in the future.

Trade the entire back end (except for Luke Schenn) for Oliver Ekman-Larsson lol wishful thinking

When you think about the amount of players on the team that aren't in the prime years of their career on this team. It's easier to see why they're so bad. What is the plan though?
- Just5

Look at all the top teams currently. They all have players that aren't in their prime years.