I agree... but they also have to know how to close out games. Again, keep in mind that they've entered the third period of all 11 games this year in position to come away with one or two points if they had won the final stanza.

Do you have confidence that even if they are playing from ahead against the Caps on Friday that they won't resort to standstill/ throw away the puck in panic mode come crunch time? Right now, I don't.
- bmeltzer

They need thier 3rd and 4th lines to be checking lines. Let the top 2 lines get the lead early, then let the bottom 2 lines shut them down at the end. We shouldn't be sending out Giroux's and Schenn's line and asking them to hold the lead.

I thought Vorachek looked fairly good last night. He was strong in the first period and when he screwed up and got poke checked from the blueline on our powerplay allowing a breakaway he chased him down, didn't cause a penalty but DID keep his stick on the shooters forehand side so he was forced to go backhand, giving Mason a much better chance of the save.
I was actually impressed he put his heart into it, and it appeared that he thought it through. With so many dumb things hapening on the ice it's refreshing to see some intelligent plays... Even if it did begin with a moment.

Yeah for Coburn! Thanks Bill for pointing out that he had a decent game. He gets so much flak and he's been quietly improving.

And I know Grossmann had a rough game but overall I think he's still one of our better D. I am horribly biased so don't listen to me though.
- FlyersGrace

I thought JV was our best player last night.. Mason aside.

its true. how many grade A scoring chances has Raffl gotten? goose egg for goals. hes not a fit on the top line
- Just5

I thought Raffl played well last night, probably deserved a goal or two.

That being said, the pass that Giroux gave him when he was coming down the slot -- that's gotta be a goal! You're on the first line. That's gotta be a goal -- you can't miss the net when you could deliver the killshot...then have everybody else blame the center who set you up for not doing enough!

Somebody in the front office needs to realize that they're not buying/trading their way out of this problem... patience and prudence are the only ways out.
- Tomahawk

The only thing that would make this possible are two words. Dirt nap.

They need thier 3rd and 4th lines to be checking lines. Let the top 2 lines get the lead early, then let the bottom 2 lines shut them down at the end. We shouldn't be sending out Giroux's and Schenn's line and asking them to hold the lead.
- youarewrong

What we need is committed two way play from all 4 lines. No two offensive two defensive. If its a one goal game with 4 minutes left.. My two centers for those last two shifts would be Couts and G.

The only thing that would make this possible are two words. Dirt nap.
- PLindbergh31

That's horrible...

I thought Raffl played well last night, probably deserved a goal or two.

That being said, the pass that Giroux gave him when he was coming down the slot -- that's gotta be a goal! You're on the first line. That's gotta be a goal -- you can't miss the net when you could deliver the killshot...then have everybody else blame the center who set you up for not doing enough!
- AllInForFlyers

Not defending Raffl... but Giroux isnt doing enough, and there isnt anyone to blame but giroux.

And who would EVER have thought that would be the case before the season?
Absolute head scrtacher. Good for him.
- FlyersGrace

Once he's signs his name on the dotted line to the tune of 5 years 25 million, the wheels will fall off.

That's horrible...
- FlyersGrace

Is it true?

You figure 20 goals in a season is about 1 every other game
- wolfhounds

The new math?

Once he's signs his name on the dotted line to the tune of 5 years 25 million, the wheels will fall off.
- PLindbergh31

He'll be terrified of Flamingos and be obsessed with the creation of marshmellows...

Somebody in the front office needs to realize that they're not buying/trading their way out of this problem... patience and prudence are the only ways out.
- Tomahawk

I don't agree with this. The 2 P's only work if you have the right pieces that will develop. For every example of a Pittsburgh or Chicago using patience, I can give you 3 examples of teams being patient with the wrong pieces for too long like Florida and Columbus.

As a matter of fact, take a lesson from Columbus. Once they started making moves and trading some of thier young assetts for ones that fit better, they started getting better. Vorack, Mason, and all those guys on the rangers are perfect examples.

Considering that Rosehill blew coverage on Cogliano's goal, I disagree. That's a pretty big factor in a one goal game
- Jsaquella

I said earlier, I agree that Rosehill should've been more aware of the backside of the ice on that play. But when you really look at the play, where was the biggest error at? Which was symptomatic of the real issues in the game. All Grossmann had to do was make a routine D to D pass to his defense partner, Coburn, who would've had the puck on his forehand, and had an easy clear out to Center ice. But instead Grossmann sends a weak backhand clear right into the Ducks trap, and a transiton play leading to goal off of a bad turnover. But 3 or 4 times now you've placed the bigger inference on Rosehill, simply because you don't like him as a player, and don't want an enforcer on the team. It was a botched routine play, by a D man making 3.5M a year. But let's place more blame on Rosehill.

He doesn't get a pass, but he contributed last night as much as Ryan Getzlaf did: One point. Playing in all situations, as Getzlaf did.

The Ducks' other scorers weren't Corey Perry or Teemu Selanne.

It was Andrew Cogliano and Kyle Palmieri and Nick Bonino. While their fourth line was deployed more and more useful than our fourth line, a third-liner and two second-liners beat us.

How is Claude Giroux more culpable for this loss than the 14 other guys who didn't produce?

We clearly disagree, and that's fine. I simply don't believe Claude Giroux's salary means that he should pick up the slack for two other guys who can't get on the ice.
- AllInForFlyers

The difference between the play of Giroux and Getzlaff was night and day. Getzlaff was around the net, and was a catalyst in his team winning the game. Giroux was not. Other then a very fine assist on the PP, Giroux was ineffective and a perimeter player. The game doesn't down to just the players who scored the goals. I know you know better then that.
Giroux is more culpable because he played like crap again, and has played like crap the majority of the Season. He is certainly not alone. There's many other players who deserve blame also.
And I find it mind boggling that two 4th line players are getting as much blame as they are. As if Claude Giroux is ineffective because he has to make up for the play of the two 4th line players. Makes zero sense.

I said earlier, I agree that Rosehill should've been more aware of the backside of the ice on that play. But when you really look at the play, where was the biggest error at? Which was symptomatic of the real issues in the game. All Grossmann had to do was make a routine D to D pass to his defense partner, Coburn, who would've had the puck on his forehand, and had an easy clear out to Center ice. But instead Grossmann sends a weak backhand clear right into the Ducks trap, and a transiton play leading to goal off of a bad turnover. But 3 or 4 times now you've placed the bigger inference on Rosehill, simply because you don't like him as a player, and don't want an enforcer on the team. It was a botched routine play, by a D man making 3.5M a year. But let's place more blame on Rosehill.
- MJL

Yep, Grossmann's mistake was the bigger of the two. He had another turnover that was just as bad that didn't end up in the net.

I've been critical of Grossmann, too. But at least Grossmann does other things well. I find it far easier to forgive a mistake by a guy that can, you know, play hockey.

Per Eklund's request on twitter, I gave Brad Marsh a follow.

I know of his ties with the Ottawa Senator organization, but the fact that Marshy's avatar was one of him in a Senator uni and not, say, in a Flyers away jersey and cooperalls made me a little sad.

This team is Very weak on LW. I think they need to make a move to fill that void now. Not sure who to go after or who is available but
if they could move Simmonds as apart of a package to get a solid 1st or 2nd line LW they could move Read back to natural RW spot and Raffl down to 3rd line where he belongs.

Line-up would look more solid to me as:

LW via Trade/Giroux/Lecavalier
Hartnell/Schenn/Voracek
Raffl/Couturier/Read
McGinn/Talbot/Rinaldo

Until or unless the Flyers reverse this, they are pretenders. I can't put it any plainer than that.
- bmeltzer

It's going to be a loooong season for the fans. Right now they are just not a good team. Probably going to take a combination of more time for Berube to keep making his changes and a couple player moves. Still, I don't think they're a playoff team this year.

Yep, Grossmann's mistake was the bigger of the two. He had another turnover that was just as bad that didn't end up in the net.

I've been critical of Grossmann, too. But at least Grossmann does other things well. I find it far easier to forgive a mistake by a guy that can, you know, play hockey.
- Jsaquella

We're falling into the same trap we always do: Defend to the death the guys who can't play, run the guys who can play out of town.

I don't agree with this. The 2 P's only work if you have the right pieces that will develop. For every example of a Pittsburgh or Chicago using patience, I can give you 3 examples of teams being patient with the wrong pieces for too long like Florida and Columbus.

As a matter of fact, take a lesson from Columbus. Once they started making moves and trading some of thier young assetts for ones that fit better, they started getting better. Vorack, Mason, and all those guys on the rangers are perfect examples.
- youarewrong

We've traded a lot of our young assets over the years... some would argue more than any other team in the league... we just did a wholesale overhaul of our young core not 2 summers ago. The vast majority of the players on the roster were brought in via UFA/trade... only 3 guys are Flyers picks, and a couple were undrafted UFA's. That's it.

This isn't a team that has been clinging to the same tired faces for an eternity -- this is a team that has been shuffling new faces into the lineup NON STOP.

And we wonder where the chemistry, identity and consistency have gone.

My Opinion,

2 things I see, First off our defenseman are tooooo slow, that is obvious, you take out Coburn from the mix and molasses in January move quicker then this bunch. When your not quick on your skates you make bad decisions and thats what is happening. How many times have we seen our dman just clunk it off the wall blindly? Or just blindly try to hammer it around the boards? Thats because they are not moving there feet and doing the lazy and safe play in their minds. you can not start any rush or speed from your own end and thru the neutral zone which brings me to my second part of our problem.

Second thing I see is following the poor play and speed from our back end, you see to many forwards not skating thru the neutral zone with speed because the pucks that are chipped out are either turnovers or they are scrambling trying to get possession and the rare times they get it they dump the puck in and have no speed going forward letting the opposition dmen no problem to get back there and skate up or make a quick pass out of their end.

SPEED is the problem, and these dump ins when your forwards have no speed going forward is not going to get the job done imho.

its true. how many grade A scoring chances has Raffl gotten? goose egg for goals. hes not a fit on the top line
- Just5

How many grade A scoring chances has Giroux gotten? goose egg for goals. Guess he isnt a fit for the top line either.

We're falling into the same trap we always do: Defend to the death the guys who can't play, run the guys who can play out of town.
- AllInForFlyers

Rosehill is what he is. A guy who can do nothing but punch people in the face.
The blame goes to Holmgren for signing him, and Berube for dressing him.

Rosehill is what he is. A guy who can do nothing but punch people in the face.
The blame goes to Holmgren for signing him, and Berube for dressing him.
- PLindbergh31

Philadelphia never changes -- All Cris Carter does is catch touchdowns. Donovan McNabb is soft. Charles Barkley traded for Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang.

So on and so forth. We love guys who can't play, can't wait to get rid of good players "who don't do enough."

Rosehill is what he is. A guy who can do nothing but punch people in the face.
The blame goes to Holmgren for signing him, and Berube for dressing him.
- PLindbergh31

Homer traded Harry Z to get him from the Ducks' AHL affiliate, then proceeded to sign him to a 2-YEAR EXTENSION. That's a Jody Shelley-level WTF series of events.