I'm probably in the minority but I never wanted Couturier on the team 2 years ago. I really wanted to see him go back for another junior season and a spot on the world junior team. but thats me. I am not a huge fan of rushing prospects.
- nastyflyergirl

i love rushing prospects. but that's me.

Misguided? I don't really know what "talented" means.

They are all talented - every player in the league is talented to a different degree - but are they given a winning plan and placed in a position to utilize their respective talents effectively?
- 77rams

That's the big question. Need to become more of a team then just a collection of talented players.

We forget that Homer also tried to get Hamhuis here who is another very good mobile defenseman and that didn't work out. I think their plan has been to rely too much on free agency to fill spots on the back end rather then the draft and development model.

It hasn't worked out well so far, but the last two years they have acquired a lot more defenseman prospects in Alt, Ghost, Morin and Haag. To me that is a step in the right direction but will take time and patience and the willingness to let them develop without rushing them.

And so the team may continue to struggle and we will have to listen to all the naysayers for a few more years.

Stick to the plan. Get another one or two top prospects this year.
In 3-6 years it will pay off with a core of solid young defenseman hopefully at the NHL level.

i love rushing prospects. but that's me.
- hammarby31

I have no problem "rushing" a player if he earns a spot. You should never hand a guy a spot, but you should give him an opportunity. Couturier came into camp and made it impossible to cut him. Laughton looked good in camp at times, but he never made a statement that they couldn't cut him.

We forget that Homer also tried to get Hamhuis here who is another very good mobile defenseman and that didn't work out. I think their plan has been to rely too much on free agency to fill spots on the back end rather then the draft and development model.

It hasn't worked out well so far, but the last two years they have acquired a lot more defenseman prospects in Alt, Ghost, Morin and Haag. To me that is a step in the right direction but will take time and patience and the willingness to let them develop without rushing them.

And so the team may continue to struggle and we will have to listen to all the naysayers for a few more years.

Stick to the plan. Get another one or two top prospects this year.
In 3-6 years it will pay off with a core of solid young defenseman hopefully at the NHL level.
- Marc D

1. Fire Home and Hexy

2. Hand David Poile a blank check and a private jet to take the former Nashville/now Philadelphia scouts around on.

3. Fire Berube

4. Hand Scotty Bowman a blank check and a private yacht.

5. Get the women

6. Win Stanley Cup

I have no problem "rushing" a player if he earns a spot. You should never hand a guy a spot, but you should give him an opportunity. Couturier came into camp and made it impossible to cut him. Laughton looked good in camp at times, but he never made a statement that they couldn't cut him.
- jmatchett383

i agree. coots was terrific. what i'm pleased to see is that laughton seems to be dominating back in juniors. it would be a bad sign if he stagnated, regressed, sulked because he didn't make the cut yet. iow, he's going in the right direction, and likely will get every opportunity to make/stick with the team. that might mean spending a half- or whole season with the phantoms first. that's fine.

Why has the team slid backwards is the issue. One of the reasons, and probably the biggert reason is the injury to Pronger. But that is somehow Holmgren's fault I guess.
- MJL

I was never a subscriber of the belief that the Flyers fell apart because Pronger went down.

If that were the case, they would not have ended up with 113 points in the 2011-12 season, the year Pronger was hurt and played only 13 games. What I do believe is that the trickle down effect of the trade hurt them more in the long run than losing Pronger himself. A pair of first rounders, depth and youth in Lupul and Sbisa, plus two additional first round picks (and as we all know the guy selling nachos could've picked better at that time than Homer after the first round).

Additionally, because Homer felt the need to get another home run hitter at all costs (and it did cost) instead of focusing on realistically replacing the void with a more well rounded defensive group, we've struggled since.

1. Fire Home and Hexy

2. Hand David Poile a blank check and a private jet to take the former Nashville/now Philadelphia scouts around on.

3. Fire Berube

4. Hand Scotty Bowman a blank check and a private yacht.

5. Get the women

6. Win Stanley Cup
- jmatchett383

f-ing awesomeness

i agree. coots was terrific. what i'm pleased to see is that laughton seems to be dominating back in juniors. it would be a bad sign if he stagnated, regressed, sulked because he didn't make the cut yet. iow, he's going in the right direction, and likely will get every opportunity to make/stick with the team. that might mean spending a half- or whole season with the phantoms first. that's fine.
- hammarby31

I think it says a lot about Laughton.

I think it says a lot about Laughton.
- nastyflyergirl

he is going to be a solid NHLer I think

not sure where he will top out at

I think it says a lot about Laughton.
- nastyflyergirl

i agree.

I was never a subscriber of the belief that the Flyers fell apart because Pronger went down.

If that were the case, they would not have ended up with 113 points in the 2011-12 season, the year Pronger was hurt and played only 13 games. What I do believe is that the trickle down effect of the trade hurt them more in the long run than losing Pronger himself. A pair of first rounders, depth and youth in Lupul and Sbisa, plus two additional first round picks (and as we all know the guy selling nachos could've picked better at that time than Homer after the first round).

Additionally, because Homer felt the need to get another home run hitter at all costs (and it did cost) instead of focusing on realistically replacing the void with a more well rounded defensive group, we've struggled since.
- 77rams

we are seeing the results of this trade come home to roost this season

those 1st rounders would be on their entry level deals and contributing right now

not to mention the ill fated move of trading the late 1st round pick the prior year? for Eminger... it turned into John Carlson

we are seeing the results of this trade come home to roost this season

those 1st rounders would be on their entry level deals and contributing right now

not to mention the ill fated move of trading the late 1st round pick the prior year? for Eminger... it turned into John Carlson

- Marc D

this stings.

I was never a subscriber of the belief that the Flyers fell apart because Pronger went down.

If that were the case, they would not have ended up with 113 points in the 2011-12 season, the year Pronger was hurt and played only 13 games. What I do believe is that the trickle down effect of the trade hurt them more in the long run than losing Pronger himself. A pair of first rounders, depth and youth in Lupul and Sbisa, plus two additional first round picks (and as we all know the guy selling nachos could've picked better at that time than Homer after the first round).

Additionally, because Homer felt the need to get another home run hitter at all costs (and it did cost) instead of focusing on realistically replacing the void with a more well rounded defensive group, we've struggled since.
- 77rams

Really astute post.

Yes, Pronger was an important player while he was here, but people seem to have revised history in their minds to make it seem like he single-handedly carried us to the Finals in 2010 and the rest of the d-corps was dog meat after he got Grabovski'd.

Homer went for the grand slam in summer 2012 and ended up hitting into a double play.

this stings.
- hammarby31

Agreed. Granted, the Flyers most likely would have picked a "gifted 2-way center" with the pick, but either Carlson or Markstrom would have been nice. Of all of Homer's moves, that's probably the worst one, and even the Homer haters seems to sorta gloss over it.

Really astute post.

Yes, Pronger was an important player while he was here, but people seem to have revised history in their minds to make it seem like he single-handedly carried us to the Finals in 2010 and the rest of the d-corps was dog meat after he got Grabovski'd.

Homer went for the grand slam in summer 2012 and ended up hitting into a double play.
- Tomahawk

Absolutely he did. But at the same time, if Pronger doesn't go down, he probably just tries to put the ball in play as opposed to trying to hit a grand slam.

we are seeing the results of this trade come home to roost this season

those 1st rounders would be on their entry level deals and contributing right now

not to mention the ill fated move of trading the late 1st round pick the prior year? for Eminger... it turned into John Carlson

- Marc D

I'll never forgive him for that move. So much so that I've completely erased it from my mind as if it never happened.

I found it sadly funny that I could not find one person, posters like ourselves, or pro commentators, who gave the thumbs up to that move when it was made. On the contrary, there was a respective groan across the Philly boards when it was announced. And it turned out that all of us were naturally correct.

Absolutely he did. But at the same time, if Pronger doesn't go down, he probably just tries to put the ball in play as opposed to trying to hit a grand slam.
- jmatchett383

Let's be real... if Pronger hadn't gone down, they still would have chased after some other missing piece of the puzzle. It's a perpetual thing here.

Really astute post.

Yes, Pronger was an important player while he was here, but people seem to have revised history in their minds to make it seem like he single-handedly carried us to the Finals in 2010 and the rest of the d-corps was dog meat after he got Grabovski'd.

Homer went for the grand slam in summer 2012 and ended up hitting into a double play.
- Tomahawk

I think the loss of Pronger plus Kimo just getting older and losing a step cannot be understated.

Prime time Kimo with the very same Coburn (who has really struggled the last two seasons) was a very competent and effective defensive pair.

Take away another talented puck mover we had with Carle, and here we are in 2013.

Let's be real... if Pronger hadn't gone down, they still would have chased after some other missing piece of the puzzle. It's a perpetual thing here.
- Tomahawk

The bright shiny objects always attracted Homer like a fly to a bug zapper.

and just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.......

FWIW Here's one man's thoughts on where the Flyers should go from here:

1. Don't rush into any panic trades or make a trade just to shake things up. Give Berube at least 20 games or so before making any moves.

2. Leave Brayden Schenn at center, he just looks better there than on wing.

3. When VL and Hartnell return, assuming all other forwards are healthy, go with the following lines.
Hartnell-VL-Giroux
Giroux has played wing both in Juniors and more recently in the last Olympics. This could be a very explosive line and would be fun to watch.
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Simmonds and Voracek have shown good chemistry on the pp in the past.
McGinn-Couturier-Read
McGinn gives the 3rd line some needed grit and net crashing ability
Raffl-Talbot-Rinaldo
A 4th line that actually contains some skill would be a refreshing change

4. To make room on the roster for Raffl and McGinn, send Newbury back down and waive Gill.

5. Leave the D pairs as
Coburn-Grossmann
Timonen-Gus
Streit-Schenn
and let them develop chemistry. If a deal presents itself later on to add more speed and skill on D, go for it.

So looking at some numbers, I guess it is not surprising we have like 1.3 GPG average...our leading shot taker is B Schenn and he has 18...good enough to be tied for 106 in the league...holy crap...shoot the damn puck...those "lucky" bounces don't happen without shooting...rebounds don't happen without shooting...

FWIW Here's one man's thoughts on where the Flyers should go from here:

1. Don't rush into any panic trades or make a trade just to shake things up. Give Berube at least 20 games or so before making any moves.

2. Leave Brayden Schenn at center, he just looks better there than on wing.

3. When VL and Hartnell return, assuming all other forwards are healthy, go with the following lines.
Hartnell-VL-Giroux
Giroux has played wing both in Juniors and more recently in the last Olympics. This could be a very explosive line and would be fun to watch.
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Simmonds and Voracek have shown good chemistry on the pp in the past.
McGinn-Couturier-Read
McGinn gives the 3rd line some needed grit and net crashing ability
Raffl-Talbot-Rinaldo
A 4th line that actually contains some skill would be a refreshing change

4. To make room on the roster for Raffl and McGinn, send Newbury back down and waive Gill.

5. Leave the D pairs as
Coburn-Grossmann
Timonen-Gus
Streit-Schenn
and let them develop chemistry. If a deal presents itself later on to add more speed and skill on D, go for it.
- BiggE

Swap McGinn and Hartnell and you have it about right...Hartnell can add the grit as he just does not have his 1st line game going this year and should not get 1st line time...

So looking at some numbers, I guess it is not surprising we have like 1.3 GPG average...our leading shot taker is B Schenn and he has 18...good enough to be tied for 106 in the league...holy crap...shoot the damn puck...those "lucky" bounces don't happen without shooting...rebounds don't happen without shooting...
- JW98FlyerFan

Keep in mind shots fired that miss the net wide are not recorded... We have been shooting quite a bit. What we haven't been is on target.