Yeah, I never liked it myself...
- exlund

The NHL punishes young players and old players. Hate it.

I'll never understand that. Dude's a goal scorer. If he was on our team we'd have him value above the great one and Crosby. Wtf.. spell check corrected Crosby to capital c.
- Flyersgod

Crysby, no spell check required

I always liked Ryan, it's fun to dream of a tandem with he & Giroux

Not to mention that the Predators owners have now paid Weber north of $26M for 55 games of service. If they're willing to do that, pretty sure they're okay with paying his base salary from here on out.
- jmatchett383

They took there best shot, that's over & done with

Someone of Pronger's size, skill and mindset is pretty rare. There's not enough of a sample size of them to make any meaningful prognosis about how effective they might be as they age. To me, the most recent games Pronger played are a more legitimate determinate of how he might have played in the next few years as opposed to some speculation about some presumed precipitious decline in his production due to the inevitable onset of age. Given that Pronger stated he felt like he could play for years to come and was given the captaincy, and backing that up with point per game production in his last run of games, I don't see the enough evidence to conclude or assume that he would soon break down and ultimately become a shell of his former self during the contract. Was it possible? Sure. Was it likely? I don't think you can say that.
- exlund

There's a lot more Hatchers, Rathjes, Gills than there are Rob Blakes... even Blake had trouble keeping up with younger/faster/quicker forwards toward the end, and missed time each season w/ assorted injuries. Thankfully, all those guys were able to retire before they hit 40... Pronger was signed until 42, IIRC.

If you want to see what a great player that overstays his career looks like, just think of what a sad sight Chelios was at the end of his career... and that's when he was eager to keep his career going, not playing because he was on a 35+ contract. Still useful in some respects, but the physical tools had all dried up by the end.

Honestly I wish they'd do away with the 35+ contract rule. Only hurts older players who have put the time in to grow the game.
- Flyersgod

It's there to make teams think twice before signing aging vets to silly deals. Streit for example.

It's there to make teams think twice before signing aging vets to silly deals. Streit for example.
- Isles_since_6

It's supposed to prevent teams from signing Pronger-type deals, lowering cap-hit by having a player under contract into his 40's... but apparently some GM's just don't give a F.

Smarter way to do it is what Boston did w/ Iginla... small cap-hit with huge, ridiculously easy to attain bonuses on a one-year term. Can just re-up like that indefinitely with a wink wink nod nod between player and team.

Keep the youth trAde the dead weight

The fans don't make the trades.

Owner won't trade Weber to Flyers on principle.

But thanks for your angry tirade.
- Atomic Wedgie

angry? hardly, but the possibility remains if they can make a hockey trade that gets them a similar skill player in return and sheds $50 million in future obligations they may consider it.
how do you know what the owner's principles are?

The fans don't make the trades.


- Atomic Wedgie

make sure you post this gem of wisdom in response to 75% of the posts on here involving trade speculation

Not to mention that the Predators owners have now paid Weber north of $26M for 55 games of service. If they're willing to do that, pretty sure they're okay with paying his base salary from here on out.
- jmatchett383

once again, what they paid already is irrelevant if they decide they don't want to pay the rest. it isn't just base salary they owe him. $21 mil/yr thru 2016 then $16 mil/yr thru 2018 in salary and the signing bonus. if they are as financially strapped as everyone says they are (remember why nobody thought they would match?) then it may make financial sense to try to unload around $80 million minus the salary they would get back

Keep the youth trAde the dead weight
- 2Real

How did you get that A capitalized? Random place to just hold in shift, haha

really? they traded a scoring winger who had a down yr due to injuries, who they had just signed to a multi-year contract. did we forget that pwr forwards take more time to mature and develop consistency? did we also forget how he showed up in big games like in the plyoffs vs BOS? ...he did the same for TOR last yr as well...a big, fast guy w/ elite hands who could be maddeningly inconsistent, but it's par for the course w/ young plyrs.\


- isaiah520

Did we forget that defenseman take more time to mature and develop consistency? Did we also forget that Luke Schenn was one of the few bright spots from last Season? Schenn is a big physically imposing young defenseman would can be maddeningly inconsistent, but it's par for the course with young defenseman.

no, the flyers, w/ little foresight, finally traded one forward too many and let matt carle go, even though they needed a puck mover. so they brought in a schenn who barely hung on to his #6 spot in TOR...a guy w/ a a clear ceiling and zero dynamic aspect to his game...all to roll the dice on weber like some riverboat gambler.


- isaiah520

That clear ceiling is debatable. And is an opinion, and certainly not a fact. Like all player evaluations are. And linking the Schenn/JVR deal to the Weber deal isn't accurate in my opinion. One had nothing to do with the other.

luke plyed pretty solid last yr, but watching JVR take over portions of the plyoff series vs BOS last yr provided the stark contrast between these 2 plyrs...and we'v had trouble scoring consistently since then haven't we? would you not rather have carle and JVR than schenn and by extension, striet?
- isaiah520

Both players have played solidly and had struggles with consistency. Schenn didn't have the opportunity to show what he could do in the playoffs last year. I'll take a top pair defenseman over a goal scoring winger. Especially in the situation that the Flyers were in, of having plenty of forward prospects, and not enough young defenseman. If Schenn was a puck moving offensive defenseman, you wouldn't be so harsh in judging him and the trade. Well defensive defenseman are very important to a team.

i've been here since '06. i wasn't too impressed w/ JVR in the Worlds and i questioned his motor, but once he became a flyer, i was patient w/ him. he saw glimpses of what he could do in the plyoffs...enuf for homer to make a multi yr deal and now we see him starting to hit his stride. this is very typical for power forwards.

but, more to the point- can you not see the difference in talent and dynamic impact potential between the these two plyrs? can you not see the lack of foresight in the ensuing moves that were made? good GMs don't play checkers when they should be plying chess...
- isaiah520

The comparison you're making by it's very nature is a poor one. You're comparing a stay at home defensive defenseman to a goal scoring Winger. Each type of player by it's very nature is different. Goal scorers are flashy, defenseman like Schenn are not. So it's a flawed comparison. Just because you don't like the trades, doesn't mean it shows a lack of foresight.

That's not a very popular position to trumpet around here, but I 100% agree with you.

There's definitely a bit of nostalgia-laced mistiness when people recall what kind of player Pronger was when he finally arrived here.

Yes, he was a game-changer, and he could still control both sides of the puck, and he was easily, by far, the team's best dman... but his skating had really begun to deteriorate (evidenced by the increasing frequency with which he was getting beat to the outside, Evander Kane), and he was nowhere near as physically intimidating in the corners, and in front of the net as he used to be, because he was so carefully managing his declining endurance.

We're extremely fortunate to not have had to witness the last 2-4 years of that 35+ contract when big bodies deteriorate to the point where production goes over a cliff. Like Hatcher before him, I'm sure his mere presence in the room would be a boon to the team, but it would have been painful to watch such a great player decline to the point of averageness.
- Tomahawk

That Pronger would've declined to that level is not a given. Hatcher was a completely different story. He was basically playing on one leg at the end. No reason to believe that Pronger couldn't have remained a top defenseman until the end of the deal.

Big shot, .5 points-per-game pedigree, good offensive instincts, nice outlet passer, can run a PP... deficient in his own zone, smaller body, wrong side of 30... that's MA Bergeron.

On the plus side, MA Bergeron is faster, younger, cheaper, and could have been signed to a 1-year deal. On the down side, Bergeron's a bit smaller and weaker than Streit.

Even Liles... on that contract that he has, is a more affordable analog to Streit.

But Streit was the biggest name, and a former captain, so he won by default.
- Tomahawk

No Streit was by far the better player, then those options you name. And it's not even close.

I would venture to guess. Besides that 8 game period where the Flyers won with mostly an AHL roster. The flyers have been dead last in the league pointwise, about 50 games worth?

There's a lot more Hatchers, Rathjes, Gills than there are Rob Blakes... even Blake had trouble keeping up with younger/faster/quicker forwards toward the end, and missed time each season w/ assorted injuries. Thankfully, all those guys were able to retire before they hit 40... Pronger was signed until 42, IIRC.

If you want to see what a great player that overstays his career looks like, just think of what a sad sight Chelios was at the end of his career... and that's when he was eager to keep his career going, not playing because he was on a 35+ contract. Still useful in some respects, but the physical tools had all dried up by the end.
- Tomahawk

Hatcher and Rathje broke down due to serious injuries. Pronger showed little signs of going south.

It's there to make teams think twice before signing aging vets to silly deals. Streit for example.
- Isles_since_6

No it's not. It's there to prevent teams from circumventing the Cap.

It's supposed to prevent teams from signing Pronger-type deals, lowering cap-hit by having a player under contract into his 40's... but apparently some GM's just don't give a F.

Smarter way to do it is what Boston did w/ Iginla... small cap-hit with huge, ridiculously easy to attain bonuses on a one-year term. Can just re-up like that indefinitely with a wink wink nod nod between player and team.
- Tomahawk

A player has to be willing to sign that one year incentive filled contract.

not that I am remotely giving up on this season but just curious.,....to all of the people who follow the draft closely, how deep in the 2014 draft?
- nastyflyergirl

Right now not as deep as 2013 but still should pack solid players..

Right now not as deep as 2013 but still should pack solid players..
- ob18

What about top end OB? I know theres no Crosby but what are we looking at as far as A+ studs like the top 4 this past year?

Did we forget that defenseman take more time to mature and develop consistency? Did we also forget that Luke Schenn was one of the few bright spots from last Season? Schenn is a big physically imposing young defenseman would can be maddeningly inconsistent, but it's par for the course with young defenseman.



That clear ceiling is debatable. And is an opinion, and certainly not a fact. Like all player evaluations are. And linking the Schenn/JVR deal to the Weber deal isn't accurate in my opinion. One had nothing to do with the other.



Both players have played solidly and had struggles with consistency. Schenn didn't have the opportunity to show what he could do in the playoffs last year. I'll take a top pair defenseman over a goal scoring winger. Especially in the situation that the Flyers were in, of having plenty of forward prospects, and not enough young defenseman. If Schenn was a puck moving offensive defenseman, you wouldn't be so harsh in judging him and the trade. Well defensive defenseman are very important to a team.
- MJL

but he's not a puck mover

in your ensuing post you claim "just because you don't like the trade..."

every argument you made is proven wrong by where the flyers are at right now based on who they kept and who they traded or let go of. i hope you found your drive by 4 hrs later arguments cathartic, cause they certainly aren't cogent...not even close. who on this board would rather not have JVR and carle back instead of schenn...and possibly by extension, streit? homer (frank)ed up...can't you see that?

What about top end OB? I know theres no Crosby but what are we looking at as far as A+ studs like the top 4 this past year?
- Just5

I'd say you could still have any of 5 maybe up to 7 fighting for #1 but in the end I think it will come down to 2 or 3

I'd say you could still have any of 5 maybe up to 7 fighting for #1 but in the end I think it will come down to 2 or 3
- ob18

Hopefully the AHLers stay down this time so we have a real shot at #1

Hopefully the AHLers stay down this time so we have a real shot at #1
- Just5

I'd prefer a playoff run & it's way too early to be wanting the #1 pick.