why wouldn't we? trading an elite player for another elite player who happens to also address a glaring need (now and in years to come) seems like a pretty decent idea
- hogweed

Except it then gives you a glaring need in another position and you are trading a younger player for an older player.

No thanks.

like the fans give 2 craps about what the team pays? you're conflating 2 different issues. the organization makes decisions from hockey perspective and a financial one. the fans want results, no mater the cost. if they traded weber for streit the fns would have a fit but if they got back giroux they would be excited to get a superstar forward; i doubt the fans would say "what about the money the owner spent on weber?" and the team would free up about $50 million over the next 4 years to play other players. if they made that trade would you care about the money or the player?
- hogweed

The fans don't make the trades.

Owner won't trade Weber to Flyers on principle.

But thanks for your angry tirade.

Except it then gives you a glaring need in another position and you are trading a younger player for an older player.

No thanks.
- opeth_pa

Yeah, you'd have to be virtually certain that one of your young centers would develop into a player at least as good as Giroux first -- a lot more certain than Homer was when he assumed Schenn/Couturier would be able to replace the production of Jagr and JvR right away.

Just ask Calgary and Toronto... 1C are just as hard to come by as 1D... it would just be shifting the need.

I dont like Schenn either but you guys cant seem to let him go...everybody knows you won the trade
- vejim

I don't dislike Schenn - a position I've maintained from the day of trade. I hope he does well.

I was merely warning you no to hang your hat on real time stats from the ACC - they are not reliable.

The fans don't make the trades.

Owner won't trade Weber to Flyers on principle.

But thanks for your angry tirade.
- Atomic Wedgie

Not to mention that the Predators owners have now paid Weber north of $26M for 55 games of service. If they're willing to do that, pretty sure they're okay with paying his base salary from here on out.

I was merely warning you no to hang your hat on real time stats - they are not reliable.
- Atomic Wedgie

ftfy

Yeah, you'd have to be virtually certain that one of your young centers would develop into a player at least as good as Giroux first -- a lot more certain than Homer was when he assumed Schenn/Couturier would be able to replace the production of Jagr and JvR. Just ask Calgary and Toronto... 1C are just as hard to come by as 1D... it would just be shifting the need.
- Tomahawk

Although I'd say Philly is the one team that never seems to have a problem drafting good centres.

Scary, actually.

Although I'd say Philly is the one team that never seems to have a problem drafting good centres.

Scary, actually.
- Atomic Wedgie

We do a lousy job of hanging on to them, tough.

Ricci, Forsberg, Prospal, Zubrus, Sharp, Carter, Richards... none of those guys stuck around for too long. Gagne, who was drafted as a C, was probably the only guy who would be considered a career Flyer.

Now we're talking about trading Giroux, Couturier and Laughton away. Not surprised at all.

We do a lousy job of hanging on to them, tough.

Ricci, Forsberg, Prospal, Zubrus, Sharp, Carter, Richards... none of those guys stuck around for too long. Gagne, who was drafted as a C, was probably the only guy who would be considered a career Flyer.

Now we're talking about trading Giroux, Couturier and Laughton away. Not surprised at all.
- Tomahawk

If I recall correctly, you got a centre back for Forsberg...

We're the leafs!! Oh my God we turned into the leafs

If I recall correctly, you got a centre back for Forsberg...
- Atomic Wedgie

We don't like being reminded of that particular trade, lol.

Anyway, they do such a good job drafting good C's that fans have actually started taking to complaining when they take C's in the first-round... Laughton's got 8-goals and 15-points in 7 OHL games and you still have people butthurt about them passing on Maatta in that draft.

We don't like being reminded of that particular trade, lol.

Anyway, they do such a good job drafting good C's that fans have actually started taking to complaining when they take C's in the first-round... Laughton's got 8-goals and 15-points in 7 OHL games and you still have people butthurt about them passing on Maatta in that draft.
- Tomahawk

And this year they do draft a dman and it was still a problem

That's not a very popular position to trumpet around here, but I 100% agree with you.

There's definitely a bit of nostalgia-laced mistiness when people recall what kind of player Pronger was when he finally arrived here.

Yes, he was a game-changer, and he could still control both sides of the puck, and he was easily, by far, the team's best dman... but his skating had really begun to deteriorate (evidenced by the increasing frequency with which he was getting beat to the outside, Evander Kane), and he was nowhere near as physically intimidating in the corners, and in front of the net as he used to be, because he was so carefully managing his declining endurance.

We're extremely fortunate to not have had to witness the last 2-4 years of that 35+ contract when big bodies deteriorate to the point where production goes over a cliff. Like Hatcher before him, I'm sure his mere presence in the room would be a boon to the team, but it would have been painful to watch such a great player decline to the point of averageness.
- Tomahawk

That sounds like presumptuous speculation. With his tools, high hockey IQ and efficiency of movement 35+ year old Pronger didn't really play the type of game where he'd see a steep decline due to age in that time imo. He was producing at a point-per-game pace in the games just before he went down. There was no definitive indication of a long term health issue with Pronger before the Grabovski incident. You can choose to assume he'd break down, but there are also many examples of players that are still pretty effective going into their late 30s, and Pronger isn't your run of the mill dude.

We don't like being reminded of that particular trade, lol.

Anyway, they do such a good job drafting good C's that fans have actually started taking to complaining when they take C's in the first-round... Laughton's got 8-goals and 15-points in 7 OHL games and you still have people butthurt about them passing on Maatta in that draft.
- Tomahawk

I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the Flyers on all of their first round picks. After that, , which is a big part of the reason why we're always chasing and ultimately overpaying (in either salary or years or both) FA's to fill the voids.

Big shot, .5 points-per-game pedigree, good offensive instincts, nice outlet passer, can run a PP... deficient in his own zone, smaller body, wrong side of 30... that's MA Bergeron.

On the plus side, MA Bergeron is faster, younger, cheaper, and could have been signed to a 1-year deal. On the down side, Bergeron's a bit smaller and weaker than Streit.

Even Liles... on that contract that he has, is a more affordable analog to Streit.

But Streit was the biggest name, and a former captain, so he won by default.
- Tomahawk

I'm taking a wait and see approach with Streit. The state of the team being what it is right now, and things still being shuffled around, I don't know that anybody is bringing their "A" game consistently. Great players can look like crap (such as, G) during these kinds of skids...so, it's not really fair to dump on the guy just yet, imo. Hopefully, he can manage to help get the team over the hump and earn some respect amongst the players,coaches and fans...it takes some time, him being a noob and all...I think it's a bit early to know yet, what we exactly have here with Mark Streit as a Flyer.

That sounds like presumptious speculation. With his tools, high hockey IQ and efficiency of movement 35+ year old Pronger didn't really play the type of game where he'd see a steep decline due to age in that time imo. He was producing at a point-per-game pace in the games just before he went down. There was no definitive indication of a long term health issue with Pronger before the Grabovski incident. You can choose to assume he'd break down, but there are also many examples of players that are still pretty effective going into their late 30s, and Pronger isn't your run of the mill dude.
- exlund

Are there any examples of big dmen with limited mobility that continued to dominate into their late-30's and beyond AND didn't run into persistent injury problems?

Yeah no one wanted him, they think he was average & Getzlaf & Perry made him etc
- puckhead17

I'll never understand that. Dude's a goal scorer. If he was on our team we'd have him value above the great one and Crosby. Wtf.. spell check corrected Crosby to capital c.

2 years when he is a UFA
- nastyflyergirl

I'll be banging the drum till then!

Are there any examples of big dmen with limited mobility that continued to dominate into their late-30's and beyond AND didn't run into persistent injury problems?
- Tomahawk

What really grinds them down is all the years of physical play. It takes it's toll.

What really grinds them down is all the years of physical play. It takes it's toll.
- 77rams

Look at Chara... noticeably a bit off from where he was just 6-months ago. Age and accumulated injuries are inescapable, even for great players.

What about the great Mark Streit??
- Vukota

He is awesome

Circa 2008-10

Are there any examples of big dmen with limited mobility that continued to dominate into their late-30's and beyond AND didn't run into persistent injury problems?
- Tomahawk

Someone of Pronger's size, skill and mindset is pretty rare. There's not enough of a sample size of them to make any meaningful prognosis about how effective they might be as they age. To me, the most recent games Pronger played are a more legitimate determinate of how he might have played in the next few years as opposed to some speculation about some presumed precipitious decline in his production due to the inevitable onset of age. Given that Pronger stated he felt like he could play for years to come and was given the captaincy, and backing that up with point per game production in his last run of games, I don't see the enough evidence to conclude or assume that he would soon break down and ultimately become a shell of his former self during the contract. Was it possible? Sure. Was it likely? I don't think you can say that.

How about calling up Akeson- he is that player they are seeking via trade- a fast skating closer.
- chilidog

I'd like to believe they are grooming him as a top six player and are content for the time being to let him get top minutes in all situations under Murray with the Phantoms.

Nice homepage writeup on Akeson if you haven't seen it yet..

http://theahl.com/hard-wo...ng-off-for-akeson-p187905

Someone of Pronger's size, skill and mindset is pretty rare. There's not enough of a sample size of them to make any meaningful prognosis about how effective they might be as they age. To me, the most recent games he played are a more legitimate determinate of how he might have played in the next few years as opposed to some speculation about some presumed precipitious decline in his production due to the inevitable onset of age. Given that Pronger stated he felt like he could play for years to come and was given the captaincy, and backing that up with point per game production in his last run of games, I don't see the enough evidence to conclude or assume that he would soon break down and ultimately become a shell of his former self during the contract. Was it possible? Sure. Was it likely? I don't think you can say that.
- exlund

Honestly I wish they'd do away with the 35+ contract rule. Only hurts older players who have put the time in to grow the game.

Honestly I wish they'd do away with the 35+ contract rule. Only hurts older players who have put the time in to grow the game.
- Flyersgod

Yeah, I never liked it myself...