thats funny and so sad at the same time

- flyer186

yes, yes it is.

https://www.youtube.com/w...er_embedded&v=9DMeWksQf9E

Good lord, I can't believe you guys stayed up all night arguing about tanking games!!

You really need to get out more!

- BiggE

sure you can.

if you'd rather have the 35+ contract of streit than carle, go at it. i'm not sure you're saying that, but carle is the better plyr overall and as good a puck mover. schenn has the confidence of the coach to be getting #6 mins right now, but that could change. he'll never have the potential to effect gms like JVR has already demonstrated, though. we could use JVR's dynamic talent more than what is probably a grossmann clone w/ slightly better puck skills, but less savvy.
- isaiah520

I don't like either of their contracts...personally, I would have liked to retain Carle on a Coburn-like deal but that ship has sailed. I disagree on Carle being the better overall player though. Streit is a better pp QB, has a better shot..passing is about even, but Streit is more adept at skating the puck out of the defensive zone when given the opportunity. Defensively, they're pretty much a wash...neither of them are particularly physical, but Streit is more likely to put on a hit to make a play. Carle is a little bit faster and has a little bit better defensive stick, but that's about it. The age difference is significant and, obviously, that's a big advantage for Carle in this comparison. Streit will show more than he is right now, I'm sure of it.

On L Schenn, I'm looking at the body of work that I've seen, which includes some pretty impressive, big-minute games down the stretch last season as the other starters went out...he stepped up big and was a critical factor in some wins, arguably as big a factor as some of those "beast mode" games by JVR.

This season has been a bit of a disaster so far, with lots of chaos and new things to learn (and unlearn). I don't think anyone looks good right now, and I think it would be a mistake to define any of the players' roles or come to conclusions about young players' upside based largely on this sample of games. Schenn is 23. We all know D take longer to develop...we won't know the net result of the JVR/Schenn trade for some time imo.

Was that Carolina pot stirrer from before right? Is Ron Hainsey just as good as Streit?

i'm shocked nobody has posted that coyotes goalie mike smith has more goals than giroux, voracek, read, hartnell, and coots combined.


- hammarby31

It must be tippetts system

I don't like either of their contracts...personally, I would have liked to retain Carle on a Coburn-like deal but that ship has sailed. I disagree on Carle being the better overall player though. Streit is a better pp QB, has a better shot..passing is about even, but Streit is more adept at skating the puck out of the defensive zone when given the opportunity. Defensively, they're pretty much a wash...neither of them are particularly physical, but Streit is more likely to put on a hit to make a play. Carle is a little bit faster and has a little bit better defensive stick, but that's about it. The age difference is significant and, obviously, that's a big advantage for Carle in this comparison. Streit will show more than he is right now, I'm sure of it.

On L Schenn, I'm looking at the body of work that I've seen, which includes some pretty impressive, big-minute games down the stretch last season as the other starters went out...he stepped up big and was a critical factor in some wins, arguably as big a factor as some of those "beast mode" games by JVR.

This season has been a bit of a disaster so far, with lots of chaos and new things to learn (and unlearn). I don't think anyone looks good right now, and I think it would be a mistake to define any of the players' roles or come to conclusions about young players' upside based largely on this sample of games. Schenn is 23. We all know D take longer to develop...we won't know the net result of the JVR/Schenn trade for some time imo.
- exlund

the overriding point is that homer has been chasing his tail, trying to make up for the last bad move, so these trades need to be viewed in the aggregate to judge whether he deserves to continue in his role...obvi, i vote no.

EDIT: Furthermore where did I say anyone has to agree with me. I just pointed out that by not losing those games last year set the Flyers back further. I'm glad everyone was happy with those wins. They sure felt like playoff wins. I'd rather have Seth Jones then 5 meaningless, hollow wins. And where are you to save the day when someone disagrees with their point of view?
- Flyers1218

I remember at the time people speculating that maybe ending with some nice wins would help the team, but I presented the other side of the coin, where maybe it detracts because it won't prompt them to take a hard look at themselves and perhaps they wouldn't make some changes they might have otherwise made if they just kept losing (cough::Lavy::cough)...the better pick would be a bonus.

I was able to compartmentalize my thoughts on the last part of the season...I realized the relative meaninglessness of the games and how losing games then could yield a better consolatory lottery pick in the draft, but never did I root for the team to lose while watching the games...and I wouldn't expect any member of the team or organization to play to lose any game.

the overriding point is that homer has been chasing his tail, trying to make up for the last bad move, so these trades need to be viewed in the aggregate to judge whether he deserves to continue in his role...obvi, i vote no.
- isaiah520

What are your thoughts, in aggregate, about the following players in the organization?

Giroux
Voracek
Levavalier
B Schenn
Simmonds
Couturier
Read
Raffl
McGinn
Laughton
Cousins
Akeson
Straka
Leier
Rinaldo
Hartnell
Talbot

L Schenn
Morin
Ghost
Gusty
Alt
Lauridsen
Hagg
Grossmann
Mez
Coburn
Streit
Timonen

Mason
Stolarz

I look at that and see a lot of upside within the younger ranks...some of it already with the big club trying to find their games at the NHL level and some of it that will likely be NHLers within a few years. How can we really judge the GM that brought those players in, if we won't really know how those players will perform until seeing them over the next few years?

Holmgren has made mistakes...I certainly haven't agreed with all his moves, but he usually cleans up the most egregious errors in time...and I give him credit for rebuilding a pipeline of viable prospects after kind of clearing things out with price paid in the Pronger trade. His trades of JC/MR yielded a bounty of younger, high quality players and picks. He's been creative and astute in scouting the secondary and tertiary channels, bringing in guys like Read, Gusty, (Bob), Alt and Raffl, Akeson, Straka...though it's too early to tell for sure, bringing in Mason seems like a master stroke so far.

I'm ok with Homer...for now.

ok, real simple example: last game of the year, and both teams are 0-81; the next gretzky is in the next draft. are you really saying you would rather win that game and be 1-81 instead of getting a world-class, franchise player?
- hogweed

I would want my team to play that game as if it was any other game. And let the outcome fall where it may! I may certainly be rooting for a loss. But the issue is not whether or not I want my team to lose the game in that situation. The issue is whether or not I want the team I root for to purposely tank the game.

the overriding point is that homer has been chasing his tail, trying to make up for the last bad move, so these trades need to be viewed in the aggregate to judge whether he deserves to continue in his role...obvi, i vote no.
- isaiah520

That's certainly a matter of opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have given the opinion many times that the Flyers need a #1 defenseman. I agree with that. The problem I have with the monday morning quarterbacking with regards to Holmgren, is that he tried to do that very thing. He tried to acquire both Suter and Weber. To try and make the team better. And he was willing to take a risk and lose Carle to try and do that. It didn't work out. What is the goal? Do you want this team to get to the point of winning a Cup? Well that's why he went out and tried to get Weber. You state that the team would be better off with JVR and Carle, versus Streit and Schenn. Maybe, maybe not. But the real overriding point is how much better? Do you really think things would change much with the current state of the team? I don't. Maybe you do. Bottom line is that is Holmgren was successful at what he was trying to do, they would have been that much closer to championship level. I like JVR and I'm a big Carle fan and supporter. But neither of those player elevate this team to that level. So rip Holmgren if you want. But there's a big picture to look at.

And some people disagree with MJL and MB and their asinine argument that the winning streak last year was somehow a "positive" for this team. I appreciate the loyalty to the consistent posters, but it doesn't make them right or more informed. MJL is a rambling Homer whose main argument is show me "facts" when the only "facts" he uses to justify his delusional points is his own opinion.

EDIT: Furthermore where did I say anyone has to agree with me. I just pointed out that by not losing those games last year set the Flyers back further. I'm glad everyone was happy with those wins. They sure felt like playoff wins. I'd rather have Seth Jones then 5 meaningless, hollow wins. And where are you to save the day when someone disagrees with their point of view?
- Flyers1218

Look, you're upset about this, and that's ok. All I'm trying to say is that not wanting the Flyers to purposely win games isn't... oh forget it. It's just not worth it. Some people cant be bargained with, some just want to watch the world burn.