I don't know either, but god knows you are willing to keep trying. You keep saying the same things over and over and over. Why?

You think it's shameful. Got it. How many times do you want to say that because I'm certainly not disputing your emotions and I am crystal clear on how you feel?

All i can say is you haven't made a logical argument (1+1=2) that proves me wrong. Absent a logical argument you gave yourself the moral high ground by claiming character and respect. Something no one here can prove or disprove.

It is an open board but you and I came to an impasse several hours ago where I conceded that you and I would never see eye to eye on this subject. You have added no substance to the argument since then. Why is it important to you to follow me around and tell me how shameful my position is?
- Flyers_01

maybe it's http://www.ocfoundation.org/whatisocd.aspx

the Sharks

Fleury can't catch a break

the Sharks
- 2Real

they recognized that they played too slow and made changes to transition marleau and thornton into equal/support roles. now their pace is just a notch below CHI...and of course, it's quality pace. not just guys skating up & down the ice w/o purpose...exciting team and a very good course correction for wilson.

they recognized that they played too slow and made changes to transition marleau and thornton into equal/support roles. now their pace is just a notch below CHI...and of course, it's quality pace. not just guys skating up & down the ice w/o purpose...exciting team and a very good course correction for wilson.
- isaiah520

I said for years they were too grindy and then they got rid of those players while still building around thornton and marleau and oh man are they fun to watch right now

I said for years they were too grindy and then they got rid of those players while still building around thornton and marleau and oh man are they fun to watch right now
- 2Real

still plenty big, but fast now

still plenty big, but fast now
- isaiah520

yea it helps they can trade away players like
Cheechoo, Setogucchi, Murray, Bernier, Kippursoff, etc and still have players to step in and play well

yea it helps they can trade away players like
Cheechoo, Setogucchi, Murray, Bernier, Kippursoff, etc and still have players to step in and play well
- 2Real

they have drafted and developed very well under the radar.

i really thought that wilson lost his mind a couple of yrs ago signing nitty to be his goalie and then niemi shook loose, while we went w/ an even nuttier approach w/ ML. maybe wilson knew CHI couldn't or didn't want to pay the arbitrators award for antti...

have a good nite.

Frankly its unbelievable that any fan would advocate for their team to tank games to get a better draft pick.

- MBFlyerfan

Are you kidding me? Seriously? Yeah, I'm sure Penguins fans care that they stunk so bad to get Sid and Malkin. They are pathetic fans for hoping that their team sucks enough to get two generational talents that will make them contenders for the next 15 years. Oh by the way they have another Cup. Get off your high horse. The Flyers (frank)ed themselves out of Seth Jones. Your goddamn right I'm pissed that their meaningless run cost the team a future number one.

As for tanking MJL, you can act all high and mighty all you want. It absolutely occurs. Exhibit A- Mario Lemieux
Exhibit B- Sidney Crosby
Exhibit C- LeBron James
Exhibit D- Andrew Luck
Exhibit E- Peyton Manning

With you 100% MB!

- MJL

Which is exactly why...... oh forget it. It's just not worth it. Some people cant be bargained with, some just want to watch the world burn.

Which is exactly why...... oh forget it. It's just not worth it. Some people cant be bargained with, some just want to watch the world burn.
- Flyers1218

Sorry, I'm not paying (frank)ing 1600 dollars for a poopty ass team year after year so we can rebuild through the draft and get generational players.

(frank). That. poop.

We're better than that. We are.

The team needs to get its act together. You have a bunch of millionaires on the team just simply shrugging at every loss. You know what happened the last time that occurred? We traded Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This team is suffering from the lack of confidence. They clearly have skill, talent, etc. Claude Giroux can lead this team to victory--he did in 2012 until the Devils series. He's suffering bad from his own demons. We all know Claude can score a goal, he just needs to believe in himself.

But no, I will not tolerate tanking. I will not tolerate losing seasons. We're not the Penguins, we're not the Blackhawks. We're the God damn Flyers, and we're going to win the Stanley (frank)in' Cup the right way and on our own God damn terms.

So no (frank)in' tanking.

Understand?

Sorry, I'm not paying (frank)ing 1600 dollars for a poopty ass team year after year so we can rebuild through the draft and get generational players.

(frank). That. poop.

We're better than that. We are.

The team needs to get its act together. You have a bunch of millionaires on the team just simply shrugging at every loss. You know what happened the last time that occurred? We traded Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This team is suffering from the lack of confidence. They clearly have skill, talent, etc. Claude Giroux can lead this team to victory--he did in 2012 until the Devils series. He's suffering bad from his own demons. We all know Claude can score a goal, he just needs to believe in himself.

But no, I will not tolerate tanking. I will not tolerate losing seasons. We're not the Penguins, we're not the Blackhawks. We're the God damn Flyers, and we're going to win the Stanley (frank)in' Cup the right way and on our own God damn terms.

So no (frank)in' tanking.

Understand?
- KGBflyers10

ok enjoy paying 1600 (frank)ing dollars to watch them win NOTHING

No it's not the same thing. When you trade veteran players, you are doing it to make the future better. Even after a team trades a veteran for younger assets, they are still trying to win the games they play. Tanking is purposely trying to lose games. It is not remotely close to being the same thing.
- MJL

Tanking four games to get Seth Jones wouldn't have made the future better? You sir, are an idiot.

Which is exactly why...... oh forget it. It's just not worth it. Some people cant be bargained with, some just want to watch the world burn.
- Flyers1218

Or, some people just don't agree with you on wanting your team to lose.

Sorry, I'm not paying (frank)ing 1600 dollars for a poopty ass team year after year so we can rebuild through the draft and get generational players.

(frank). That. poop.

We're better than that. We are.

The team needs to get its act together. You have a bunch of millionaires on the team just simply shrugging at every loss. You know what happened the last time that occurred? We traded Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This team is suffering from the lack of confidence. They clearly have skill, talent, etc. Claude Giroux can lead this team to victory--he did in 2012 until the Devils series. He's suffering bad from his own demons. We all know Claude can score a goal, he just needs to believe in himself.

But no, I will not tolerate tanking. I will not tolerate losing seasons. We're not the Penguins, we're not the Blackhawks. We're the God damn Flyers, and we're going to win the Stanley (frank)in' Cup the right way and on our own God damn terms.

So no (frank)in' tanking.

Understand?
- KGBflyers10

Then don't pay your (frank)ing $1600. And instead of paying $1600 to watch them blow for 4 games last year and have Seth Jones this year. You get to pay $1600 to watch them blow for 82 games this year with Mark Streit. Congratulations, whose the idiot?

Or, some people just don't agree with you on wanting your team to lose.
- BulliesPhan87

And some people disagree with MJL and MB and their asinine argument that the winning streak last year was somehow a "positive" for this team. I appreciate the loyalty to the consistent posters, but it doesn't make them right or more informed. MJL is a rambling Homer whose main argument is show me "facts" when the only "facts" he uses to justify his delusional points is his own opinion.

EDIT: Furthermore where did I say anyone has to agree with me. I just pointed out that by not losing those games last year set the Flyers back further. I'm glad everyone was happy with those wins. They sure felt like playoff wins. I'd rather have Seth Jones then 5 meaningless, hollow wins. And where are you to save the day when someone disagrees with their point of view?

Then don't pay your (frank)ing $1600. And instead of paying $1600 to watch them blow for 4 games last year and have Seth Jones this year. You get to pay $1600 to watch them blow for 82 games this year with Mark Streit. Congratulations, whose the idiot?
- Flyers1218

Maybe I won't next year. But what about everyone else? The point being is the fact that people pay a lot of (frank)ing money to see a competitive hockey team--not to see a team tank.

Guess what. Remember 06-07? Maybe you don't. Maybe you spent that year in diapers, but that season we were terrible. Horrid. A joke. And guess what? We still didn't get the 1st overall pick. So instead of Patrick Kane, we end up with JVR, which was okay--but JVR isn't Kane, and nor will he ever be.

Going by your theory, if this team tanks we should get the 1st overall or such a great draft position--but hey, you don't work for the organization. So just because we might get a good draft position doesn't mean they're not going to poop the bed on the pick.

As for some of the posters here--yes, they are very animated personalities, but some of them use facts to make their point, and these "facts" are actual facts--meaning they're the truth. Some people just don't want to look at the truth though.

Sorry, I'm not paying (frank)ing 1600 dollars for a poopty ass team year after year so we can rebuild through the draft and get generational players.

(frank). That. poop.

We're better than that. We are.

The team needs to get its act together. You have a bunch of millionaires on the team just simply shrugging at every loss. You know what happened the last time that occurred? We traded Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This team is suffering from the lack of confidence. They clearly have skill, talent, etc. Claude Giroux can lead this team to victory--he did in 2012 until the Devils series. He's suffering bad from his own demons. We all know Claude can score a goal, he just needs to believe in himself.

But no, I will not tolerate tanking. I will not tolerate losing seasons. We're not the Penguins, we're not the Blackhawks. We're the God damn Flyers, and we're going to win the Stanley (frank)in' Cup the right way and on our own God damn terms.

So no (frank)in' tanking.

Understand?
- KGBflyers10

When I see Pittsburgh win a cup... I don't care how they did it.. right way or wrong way, it makes me cringe because they won a cup.

If there's 5 teams in a low spot at the end of the year and four of them basically throw out an AHL club to finish the last few games of a season, and the Flyers don't because they are "better than that".. they will stay better than that when those other teams start to build with the new young players. They might have won the principal game, but the principal game has nothing to do with the Stanley cup.

What would be a better scenario for the flyers.

1. Trading Read and our 11th for a top 4 pick (who cares if that would work or not.. not the point) to get Seth Jones.

2. Trading Read, and more ++++ for a #1 defenseman now

3. Losing 4 absolutely meaningless games and NOT having to lose current roster players. That top pick lands us Seth Jones, and likely #1 defensive stud.

---------
I'd take the 4 meaningless losses, since I was already used to a losing team, they weren't getting into the playoffs, and we needed Seth Jones.

Because of principal, you would rather lose players we desperately need right now off of our roster to get the very same type of player we would have had by continuing our horrible season to the end?

So, in essence, you would rather have 4 meaningless wins over Matt Read (or whoever gets traded to fill our need that could have been filled).

When I see Pittsburg win a cup... I don't care how they did it.. right way or wrong way, it makes me cringe because they won a cup.

If there's 5 teams in a low spot at the end of the year and four of them basically throw out an AHL club to finish the last few games of a season, and the Flyers don't because they are "better than that".. they will stay better than that when those other teams start to build with the new young players. They might have won the principal game, but the principal game has nothing to do with the Stanley cup.
- mikel33

It's pointless dude. You know what I gathered from this is that Flyers fans love losing. I would gladly take 5 more losses in a lost year to add a player that can cause them to be a Stanley Cup competitor for 15 years. The Flyers have no number one defenseman. If the team came out and said we threw away 5 games so we could have Seth Jones on our blueline for the foreseeable future I would have understood. I would appreciate the sacrifice to make this team better going forward.

What would be a better scenario for the flyers.

1. Trading Read and our 11th for a top 4 pick (who cares if that would work or not.. not the point) to get Seth Jones.

2. Trading Read, and more ++++ for a #1 defenseman now

3. Losing 4 absolutely meaningless games and NOT having to lose current roster players. That top pick lands us Seth Jones, and likely #1 defensive stud.

---------
I'd take the 4 meaningless losses, since I was already used to a losing team, they weren't getting into the playoffs, and we needed Seth Jones.

Because of principal, you would rather lose players we desperately need right now off of our roster to get the very same type of player we would have had by continuing our horrible season to the end?

So, in essence, you would rather have 4 meaningless wins over Matt Read (or whoever gets traded to fill our need that could have been filled).
- mikel33

And who even defined "tanking". I'm not talking telling players not to compete. I'm talking early ends for guys who are hurt, weaker lineup, longer stretches of AHL lineups. Getting "looks" at some guys whose roles in the organization need to be defined. There are plenty of ways to do it without telling the players to outright lose (because players will compete).

And who even defined "tanking". I'm not talking telling players not to compete. I'm talking early ends for guys who are hurt, weaker lineup, longer stretches of AHL lineups. Getting "looks" at some guys whose roles in the organization need to be defined. There are plenty of ways to do it without telling the players to outright lose (because players will compete).
- Flyers1218

That's exactly what the Flyers did last season and they won games.

Sorry that those guys came out and competed at that time. Do you want to write an apology letter to them?

What would be a better scenario for the flyers.

1. Trading Read and our 11th for a top 4 pick (who cares if that would work or not.. not the point) to get Seth Jones.

2. Trading Read, and more ++++ for a #1 defenseman now

3. Losing 4 absolutely meaningless games and NOT having to lose current roster players. That top pick lands us Seth Jones, and likely #1 defensive stud.
.
- mikel33

Actually, it does matter if these "scenarios" would work or not--you just can't throw in semi-good pieces and expect to get a great return. This isn't NHL 14.

Actually, it does matter if these "scenarios" would work or not--you just can't throw in semi-good pieces and expect to get a great return. This isn't NHL 14.
- KGBflyers10

The reason I stated that it doesn't matter if that scenario would work or not, is because that season is over. There's no way to know if it would work at this point, unless it actually happened. Which is why it's called a hypothetical scenario.. I stated "who cares if this would work" to stress the point that it was a hypothetical scenario, meaning "insert whoever here".. whatever works best in your mind in that situation.

Also, you're not a GM. I'm not a GM. Of course this is not NHL 14? Why do you even say that? No trade actually went down, so the only option is to use your imagination... but I think you know that. There is no way for me to go back in time, and make that trade go down to see what players would go, I'm sorry. And who cares what player you use for that scenario.. use whoever you like, the player I used has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to get across, which I clearly didn't get across.

The reason I stated that it doesn't matter if that scenario would work or not, is because that season is over. There's no way to know if it would work at this point, unless it actually happened. Which is why it's called a hypothetical scenario.. I stated "who cares if this would work" to stress the point that it was a hypothetical scenario, meaning "insert whoever here".. whatever works best in your mind in that situation.

Also, you're not a GM. I'm not a GM. Of course this is not NHL 14? Why do you even say that? No trade actually went down, so the only option is to use your imagination... but I think you know that. There is no way for me to go back in time, and make that trade go down to see what players would go, I'm sorry.
- mikel33

Yes, exactly.

So there is no point in arguing that if we made this move or that move, we'd end up with Seth Jones. For all we know, the Flyers could have moved up a couple of spots and might have changed the whole dynamic of the draft. Maybe Tampa decides to pull the trigger on Seth Jones rather than picking Drouin--or maybe Florida has a change of heart.

We don't know the specifics so that's why it's pointless to speculate.

What's in the past is in the past. What the organization has to do now is focus on the present and future...decide whether the players they have now will get them to their final destination or not.

I'm not giving up on this team, nor this season just yet. They have a new coach, a new approach, and are suffering from depression.