Everyone has a bad night
- JAKEw1234

Right now I am watching Plymouth vs Barrie (Ekblad)

Braydon coburn just gets worse
- Just5

I've started calling him Braindead Coburn.

does it bug anyone else that the sabers are now adding there 2nd 1st rd pick vadorov to their roster a player that was picked ahead of morin and appears to be NHL ready now as a defense man.... never liked the morin pick i thought that there were better players left on the board at the time of his pick....and one of the players i would have taken is now on a nhl roster....maybe just my opinion but just bugs me......
- flyer186

Zadorov was not picked until 16th & no he is a bit further along is his development but it's not guarantee he stays this entire season with Buffalo.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Draft-Results/

Zadorov was not picked until 16th & no he is a bit further along is his development but it's not guarantee he stays this entire season with Buffalo.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Draft-Results/
- ob18

i might have worded it wrong but thats what i meant .... just not a big fan of the morin pick

Zadorov was not picked until 16th & no he is a bit further along is his development but it's not guarantee he stays this entire season with Buffalo.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Draft-Results/
- ob18

the funny thing is i just clicked that link went onto the mock draft and it is just funny who they have the flyers picking ...

Well if the Rangers play next Thursday like they are playing tonight, the Flyers should beat them. I can't believe the Devils are pounding them.

i might have worded it wrong but thats what i meant .... just not a big fan of the morin pick
- flyer186

I wasn't either but I have been watching Morin so far and I like so far how he's developed. Going in I did want Zadorov and still wish he was the pick but I'll still trust the Flyers brass know much more than I do when it comes to scouting/drafting.

the funny thing is i just clicked that link went onto the mock draft and it is just funny who they have the flyers picking ...
- flyer186

I wouldn't mind him, watched him a few times but I'd be very tempted to select Ekblad.

Why are you still in this conversation? I told you that we would have to agree to disagree.

MBFlyer will just echo your question at this point because that's the easiest for him to do, so here's my response.

You are sacrificing wins this season for future assets and long term gain. It's exactly the same thing. If trading established players for returns that won't be seen until the next season at minimum does not reduce your ability to win games, then tell me why?

People don't object to fewer wins when out of playoff contention as long as there is a potential long term gain. It's all in the phrasing.

Removing established players out of the lineup would indeed be the easiest way to tank and that is exactly what is being done.

MBFlyer feels strongly about this by his posts, why don't you let him voice his anger at me.
- Flyers_01

No it's not the same thing. When you trade veteran players, you are doing it to make the future better. Even after a team trades a veteran for younger assets, they are still trying to win the games they play. Tanking is purposely trying to lose games. It is not remotely close to being the same thing.

right now, you're comparing a 1st line winger w/ elite hands and big gm performances vs a guy fighting to be a #6. that's beside the point, but the straw man that i'm saying that the JVR trade is why the team is 1-7, is a joke. the moves made are just symptoms of the overall problem.


- isaiah520

Both players have had their struggles. Last Season JVR had a stretch of 22 games where he only scored 4 goals, and went 10 games I believe without a goal. 8 games doesn't define a player. And yes, you offered up the trade as a reason why the team was 1-7. It's in black and white. Ignoring JVR struggles and only focusing on Schenn's current struggles is simply not being objective when looking at the trade. The very fact that you've already determined the final outcome of the trade, shows a lack of objectivity.

again, your unwillingness to concede how all of these moves are related paints you in an uninformed light. homer is constantly reversing himself from season to season and chasing his tail. the referendum i'm clearly alluding to is on homer from bob all the way up to the delaying the inevitable on lavi.


- isaiah520

You are incorrect that I am unwilling to concede anything. The discussion was the JVR for Schenn trade. You took it off on a completely different tangent and started including other moves. And now you're introducing more players, and Coaching issues. All are different conversations. Your unwillingness to be objective in looking at the JVR Schenn trade paints you in an uninformed light.

i've always acknowledged his great start as GM, but your failure to acknowledge his obvious mismanagement over the last 3 yrs and the resulting mess he's made of this team, is beyond comical. this team is undeniably headed backwards and a change is in order.
- isaiah520

Again, you're going off on a different conversation. How discussing one trade became discussing Holmgren and all the moves he has made, is puzzling. And all you're trying to do is deflect away from what the conversation was. You can be of the opinion that there has been obvious mismanagement, but it's just your opinion. No GM is perfect. And if you're stating that I have said or stated that Holmgren is perfect and hasn't made any mistakes, you are uninformed. I can link you to a post I made on this very thread, where I stated a mistake that I believe Holmgren made.

The Season is 8 games old. It remains to be seen where this team is headed in the future. What's comical is prematurely stating where this team is headed. Which is more of the same as already casting a final verdict on the JVR/Schenn trade.

No it's not the same thing. When you trade veteran players, you are doing it to make the future better. Even after a team trades a veteran for younger assets, they are still trying to win the games they play. Tanking is purposely trying to lose games. It is not remotely close to being the same thing.
- MJL

Couldn't help yourself could you?

Tanking intentionally makes the future better. Would you rather have Seth Jones or Morin? In my opinion the future would be better. Not only that, if you don't trade the vets and their contracts haven't expired, you have them for the following year. Talk about making your team better.

Trying to win by making the team weaker? How odd. Seems counter productive to winning in the short term does it not? Wouldn't a GM be aware that he's going to cause his team to lose more games by weakening them? Wouldn't a team looking to win this year be adding players?

How would you prove that a team was tanking? Did the Penguins tank for Lemieux? The circumstantial evidence is strong but somehow they've won multiple stanley cups and have a strong fanbase at this time. Short of old news articles, nobody cares. I was talking about losing 4 games, the Penguins did it for an entire season.

if you'd rather have the 35+ contract of streit than carle, go at it. i'm not sure you're saying that, but carle is the better plyr overall and as good a puck mover. schenn has the confidence of the coach to be getting #6 mins right now, but that could change. he'll never have the potential to effect gms like JVR has already demonstrated, though. we could use JVR's dynamic talent more than what is probably a grossmann clone w/ slightly better puck skills, but less savvy.
- isaiah520

I disagree that Schenn will never have the potential to effect games like JVR has already demonstrated. That ignores some of the monster games Schenn had defensively last year. It also seems as though you believe that Schenn is fully developed as a player. I also disagree with that.

the funny thing is i just clicked that link went onto the mock draft and it is just funny who they have the flyers picking ...
- flyer186

Craig Button had Morin linked to the Flyers early. If you look, the mock had him going to Detroit at 18, not really a big reach.

I wouldn't mind him, watched him a few times but I'd be very tempted to select Ekblad.
- ob18

i was actually talking about the 2013 mock draft they had us taking zadorov, but in the 2014 mock draft i have to agree with you

Couldn't help yourself could you?

Tanking intentionally makes the future better. Would you rather have Seth Jones or Morin? In my opinion the future would be better. Not only that, if you don't trade the vets and their contracts haven't expired, you have them for the following year. Talk about making your team better.

Trying to win by making the team weaker? How odd. Seems counter productive to winning in the short term does it not? Wouldn't a GM be aware that he's going to cause his team to lose more games by weakening them? Wouldn't a team looking to win this year be adding players?

How would you prove that a team was tanking? Did the Penguins tank for Lemieux? The circumstantial evidence is strong but somehow they've won multiple stanley cups and have a strong fanbase at this time. Short of old news articles, nobody cares. I was talking about losing 4 games, the Penguins did it for an entire season.
- Flyers_01

It doesn't matter that tanking makes the future better. I would never suggest a team I root for to do that, nor would I want a team I root for to do that. Not how I want my hometown team to conduct itself. I don't care what the prize at the end of the rainbow is for that.
Hard to understand how you are confusing the two and can't see the difference between a team like Calgary, who traded an older player like Iginla, for top assets to better their future. Versus a team who purposely tanks games in order to get a better draft position. If you think that is the same thing, I don't know what to tell you. I could care less what the Pens did. Irrelevant to the team I root for, and how I feel they should conduct themselves.

Final

London - 3
Windsor - 4

Stolarz finished with 15 saves, was removed after the 4th goal (5 minutes in the 3rd)

i was actually talking about the 2013 mock draft they had us taking zadorov, but in the 2014 mock draft i have to agree with you
- flyer186

Ahhh okay.

Final

London - 3
Windsor - 4

Stolarz finished with 15 saves, was removed after the 4th goal (5 minutes in the 3rd)
- ob18

Has he played badly, or is the team in front of him playing badly?

Has he played badly, or is the team in front of him playing badly?
- MJL

Didn't watch tonight but from what I have read some of the shot were deflected. I felt he's played pretty good & consider this just a bad game during the course of the season.

It doesn't matter that tanking makes the future better. I would never suggest a team I root for to do that, nor would I want a team I root for to do that. Not how I want my hometown team to conduct itself. I don't care what the prize at the end of the rainbow is for that.
Hard to understand how you are confusing and can't see the difference between a team like Calgary, who traded an older player like Iginla, for top assets to better their future. Versus a team who purposely tanks games in order to get a better draft position. If you think that is the same thing, I don't know what to tell you. I could care less what the Pens did. Irrelevant to the team I root for, and how I feel they should conduct themselves.
- MJL

For someone who doesn't know what to say you sure are verbose. You have made your position clear (ie.. losing is good after elimination from playoffs as long as you lose the right way) in previous posts. Your arguments as to why it's wrong have all been emotional, not logical. If you feel it's wrong, i'm not going to change your mind. I agreed to disagree with you hours ago.

It also sounds like you are admitting, by refusing to address Pittsburgh, that tanking may actually happen. Is that true?

For someone who doesn't know what to say you sure are verbose. You have made your position clear (ie.. losing is good after elimination from playoffs as long as you lose the right way) in previous posts. Your arguments as to why it's wrong have all been emotional, not logical. If you feel it's wrong, i'm not going to change your mind. I agreed to disagree with you hours ago.

It also sounds like you are admitting, by refusing to address Pittsburgh, that tanking may actually happen. Is that true?
- Flyers_01

Look if you are ok with your team throwing games we cant do anything to change your mind. And if you think trading assets for the future is the same as throwing games ALA the Blacksox then I guess we can agree to disagree.

For someone who doesn't know what to say you sure are verbose. You have made your position clear (ie.. losing is good after elimination from playoffs as long as you lose the right way) in previous posts. Your arguments as to why it's wrong have all been emotional, not logical. If you feel it's wrong, i'm not going to change your mind. I agreed to disagree with you hours ago.

It also sounds like you are admitting, by refusing to address Pittsburgh, that tanking may actually happen. Is that true?
- Flyers_01

I don't know how to make this any more clearer. The debate is not about if I think tanking may actually happen or not. Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. And you can express your opinion on what my arguments are based on, but that doesn't make you right about it. I think your suggestion that the Flyers should have purposely lost the last 4 games or whatever is shameful. And it's not something I want the team I root for to do. And that opinion is based on character and respect for the game.

And lastly, this is an open message forum. Where anyone is free to respond to a post.

Look if you are ok with your team throwing games we cant do anything to change your mind. And if you think trading assets for the future is the same as throwing games ALA the Blacksox then I guess we can agree to disagree.
- MBFlyerfan

The Blacksox scandal was about individual players throwing playoff games for money. World Series games no less. There's really no comparison. I have never advocated anyone throwing playoff games or not trying to make the playoffs. Nothing there benefited the team, nor was there any intent to benefit the team.

I'm sorry you feel things are so black and white. I will, however, agree to disagree.

I don't know how to make this any more clearer. The debate is not about if I think tanking may actually happen or not. Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. And you can express your opinion on what my arguments are based on, but that doesn't make you right about it. I think your suggestion that the Flyers should have purposely lost the last 4 games or whatever is shameful. And it's not something I want the team I root for to do. And that opinion is based on character and respect for the game.

And lastly, this is an open message forum. Where anyone is free to respond to a post.
- MJL

I don't know either, but god knows you are willing to keep trying. You keep saying the same things over and over and over. Why?

You think it's shameful. Got it. How many times do you want to say that because I'm certainly not disputing your emotions and I am crystal clear on how you feel?

All i can say is you haven't made a logical argument (1+1=2) that proves me wrong. Absent a logical argument you gave yourself the moral high ground by claiming character and respect. Something no one here can prove or disprove.

It is an open board but you and I came to an impasse several hours ago where I conceded that you and I would never see eye to eye on this subject. You have added no substance to the argument since then. Why is it important to you to follow me around and tell me how shameful my position is?

Can't believe Streit got signed for huge bucks when Hainsey is twice as good and makes a few million less and he was there for the taking. The way management has spent all their money the future is grim for a few years with lots of dead wood accumulating such as Hartnell, Streit, Vinny will have to stay healthy, what a shame to see this awesome city and franchise being run into the ground by the owners.