Maybe they should not spend high draft picks trying to draft the nexr zac rinaldo because that seems to be a big part oftheir drafting strategy
- Flyers_01

I would understand that pick if rinaldo was like 30, not when rinaldo is still young

"Worst poster in the thread. Worst."
- KGBflyers10

Ummmm, why???

hey Bill in your humble opinion how short of a leash is the coach on... in other words how long do you think they will put up with the current situation
- flyer186

Not for very long... if I were Laviolette, I'd be concerned (public vote of confidence notwithstanding, because those never mean a thing).

LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!
- ggunky

bump

Maybe they should not spend high draft picks trying to draft the nexr zac rinaldo because that seems to be a big part oftheir drafting strategy
- Flyers_01

Drafting players with his heart and drive ..sure..im all for it.

Outside the first round, the flyers are a horrible draft team. we need better scouts or something because first round its hard to have a bad pick but after that our draft picks have been nothing. its out of the blue I know, but we might need to stop trying to get the best free agent all the time and just build through our system but that might take a couple years but snider wont stand for that.
- steveromanowski

Over the past 5 or 6 years, they have drafted more players that made it to the NHL than Detroit, New Jersey and the Rangers.

The biggest problem the past few years was not having numerous picks after the trades for Pronger, Grossmann and Kubina

Drafting players with his heart and drive ..sure..im all for it.
- opeth_pa

Ghoulbourne would have been a fantastic sixth rounder. As a 3rd rounder, he's a big reach.

Outside the first round, the flyers are a horrible draft team. we need better scouts or something because first round its hard to have a bad pick but after that our draft picks have been nothing. its out of the blue I know, but we might need to stop trying to get the best free agent all the time and just build through our system but that might take a couple years but snider wont stand for that.
- steveromanowski

Building through the draft, besides the obvious needing to scout well, takes a lot of patience. and this is exactly what I was saying last night....the flyers fan base has even less patience than the Flyers ownership and brass

Ghoulbourne would have been a fantastic sixth rounder. As a 3rd rounder, he's a big reach.
- Jsaquella

HUGE reach

Ghoulbourne would have been a fantastic sixth rounder. As a 3rd rounder, he's a big reach.
- Jsaquella

Couldn't agree more.
My guess is they said ,"that dude has a cool name, lets draft him!"

Building through the draft, besides the obvious needing to scout well, takes a lot of patience. and this is exactly what I was saying last night....the flyers fan base has even less patience than the Flyers ownership and brass
- nastyflyergirl

I'm impatient, but not in that way.

I'm actually more aggressive the other way: If you are on a draft/development track, then you double down on the young players and give them what they need to succeed, and you give them opportunities to play, based on production.

For example: The mindset that got Nick Cousins sent down is the most ridiculous thing that's developed in hockey over the past 30 years, led by teams who had to dumb down the sport because they didn't have talent.

But let's look at Nick Cousins for a second. Third-round pick, 68th overall in the 2011 draft. Had 68 points his draft year, 88 points the year after, 103 points the year after that.

Then, he comes to camp, plays in preseason games, and, lo and behold, actually puts up offense.

But what happens? Boom. First round of cuts. Go work on your defense, Nick Cousins. You've never played a regular-season game, but we know your defense is poor and we know your offensive game won't translate.

Um, yeah. OK. Well, maybe, just maybe, the people picking the roster that hasn't scored an even-strength goal needs to get a grip. When you're a team that can't score, maybe Nick Cousins should get a shot and somebody else needs to get sent packing so they can work on their freaking offense.

That's what's changed in the NHL over the years: This unholy fixation on "defense defense defense." When the last time I checked, they don't give you two points after a game for having the most blocked shots.

I'm impatient, but not in that way.

I'm actually more aggressive the other way: If you are on a draft/development track, then you double down on the young players and give them what they need to succeed, and you give them opportunities to play, based on production.

For example: The mindset that got Nick Cousins sent down is the most ridiculous thing that's developed in hockey over the past 30 years, led by teams who had to dumb down the sport because they didn't have talent.

But let's look at Nick Cousins for a second. Third-round pick, 68th overall in the 2011 draft. Had 68 points his draft year, 88 points the year after, 103 points the year after that.

Then, he comes to camp, plays in preseason games, and, lo and behold, actually puts up offense.

But what happens? Boom. First round of cuts. Go work on your defense, Nick Cousins. You've never played a regular-season game, but we know your defense is poor and we know your offensive game won't translate.

Um, yeah. OK. Well, maybe, just maybe, the people picking the roster that hasn't scored an even-strength goal needs to get a grip. When you're a team that can't score, maybe Nick Cousins should get a shot and somebody else needs to get sent packing so they can work on their freaking offense.

That's what's changed in the NHL over the years: This unholy fixation on "defense defense defense." When the last time I checked, they don't give you two points after a game for having the most blocked shots.
- AllInForFlyers

I never have a problem with sending a guy down to refine his game rather than rush them.

Are you saying the Flyers 2 cup teams didn't have talent?

Not for very long... if I were Laviolette, I'd be concerned (public vote of confidence notwithstanding, because those never mean a thing).
- bmeltzer

If they go 0-5 is there a new coach behind the bench for the 6th?

You know... For the Flyers apparently having too much grit up front, and stay at home guys on the back end.

I really dont think they are that gritty of a team, or a really physical squad.

Ghoulbourne would have been a fantastic sixth rounder. As a 3rd rounder, he's a big reach.
- Jsaquella

they didn't have their 4th round so they took him.....what's the % of picks after 1st round making the NHL....I bet 3rd round picks are at 5-10% make NHL so if we feel that we can find a player they like, why not?

If they go 0-5 is there a new coach behind the bench for the 6th?
- LJF

if they go 0-3 the writing will be on the wall i think......

I never have a problem with sending a guy down to refine his game rather than rush them.

Are you saying the Flyers 2 cup teams didn't have talent?
- nastyflyergirl

As much as I admire and respect the Flyers organization for winning two Stanley Cups, that was a different era. Fewer teams, far better odds of winning a Cup.

I think the better question is this: How did the Flyers team advance in 2010, which is the modern era with 30 teams and a salary cap?

They had an aging-but-still-elite Chris Pronger dominate games. Do people remember just how dominant that guy was that season? Ten goals/45A, 55 points -- and then another 18 points in 23 playoff games.

He should've won the Norris Trophy that year, for my money.

They had two 30 goal scorers in Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and another guy, Daniel Briere, who finished with 26 in 75 games.

But they also had what I call "sneaky scoring." Simon Gagne was on a near 30-goal pace, with 17 goals in 58 games, in an injury-marred season. First-round picks Claude Giroux and JVR scored 16 and 15 goals, respectively.

And here is the kicker: Daniel Carcillo dropped 12 goals. Arron Asham had 10! Darroll Powe had nine!

We haven't even mentioned Scott Hartnell, who had 14 goals in a down season.

That's my point in this stuff: I absolutely don't mind young players like Giroux and JVR cracking the lineup that year. Have no problems with fourth-line players -- love guys who grind it out.

But you have to produce! You can't just sit there and say, "Well, you know, Zac Rinaldo plays hard. It doesn't matter that he doesn't score, as long as he hits and fights."

Well, you know what? It does matter! Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham played hard and hit and fight -- and scored goals! Defense and hitting and blocking shots and whatever else, playing hard -- those things are important.

But so is scoring goals! People just keep glossing over the fact that production matters.

You have to be able to score.

As much as I admire and respect the Flyers organization for winning two Stanley Cups, that was a different era. Fewer teams, far better odds of winning a Cup.

I think the better question is this: How did the Flyers team advance in 2010, which is the modern era with 30 teams and a salary cap?

They had an aging-but-still-elite Chris Pronger dominate games. Do people remember just how dominant that guy was that season? Ten goals/45A, 55 points -- and then another 18 points in 23 playoff games.

He should've won the Norris Trophy that year, for my money.

They had two 30 goal scorers in Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and another guy, Daniel Briere, who finished with 26 in 75 games.

But they also had what I call "sneaky scoring." Simon Gagne was on a near 30-goal pace, with 17 goals in 58 games, in an injury-marred season. First-round picks Claude Giroux and JVR scored 16 and 15 goals, respectively.

And here is the kicker: Daniel Carcillo dropped 12 goals. Arron Asham had 10! Darroll Powe had nine!

We haven't even mentioned Scott Hartnell, who had 14 goals in a down season.

That's my point in this stuff: I absolutely don't mind young players like Giroux and JVR cracking the lineup that year. Have no problems with fourth-line players -- love guys who grind it out.

But you have to produce! You can't just sit there and say, "Well, you know, Zac Rinaldo plays hard. It doesn't matter that he doesn't score, as long as he hits and fights."

Well, you know what? It does matter! Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham played hard and hit and fight -- and scored goals! Defense and hitting and blocking shots and whatever else, playing hard -- those things are important.

But so is scoring goals! People just keep glossing over the fact that production matters.

You have to be able to score.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm noyt sure what you are getting at but yes of course they need to find the goals

Everything is so clear now

LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!
- ggunky

As much as I admire and respect the Flyers organization for winning two Stanley Cups, that was a different era. Fewer teams, far better odds of winning a Cup.

I think the better question is this: How did the Flyers team advance in 2010, which is the modern era with 30 teams and a salary cap?

They had an aging-but-still-elite Chris Pronger dominate games. Do people remember just how dominant that guy was that season? Ten goals/45A, 55 points -- and then another 18 points in 23 playoff games.

He should've won the Norris Trophy that year, for my money.

They had two 30 goal scorers in Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and another guy, Daniel Briere, who finished with 26 in 75 games.

But they also had what I call "sneaky scoring." Simon Gagne was on a near 30-goal pace, with 17 goals in 58 games, in an injury-marred season. First-round picks Claude Giroux and JVR scored 16 and 15 goals, respectively.

And here is the kicker: Daniel Carcillo dropped 12 goals. Arron Asham had 10! Darroll Powe had nine!

We haven't even mentioned Scott Hartnell, who had 14 goals in a down season.

That's my point in this stuff: I absolutely don't mind young players like Giroux and JVR cracking the lineup that year. Have no problems with fourth-line players -- love guys who grind it out.

But you have to produce! You can't just sit there and say, "Well, you know, Zac Rinaldo plays hard. It doesn't matter that he doesn't score, as long as he hits and fights."

Well, you know what? It does matter! Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham played hard and hit and fight -- and scored goals! Defense and hitting and blocking shots and whatever else, playing hard -- those things are important.

But so is scoring goals! People just keep glossing over the fact that production matters.

You have to be able to score.
- AllInForFlyers

As good as that team was, they had to win game 82 in a shootout to just make the playoffs. A favourable matchup against a much weaker Jersey squad, and the Habs were ripe for the picking by any team willing to outwork them.

Once they got to the finals they got outplayed for the most part imo.

I get what you are saying, but scoring is one thing. You need to have forwards who can contribute but also play well in their own end. Or you turn into Washington, which oddly enough the Flyers are pretty similar to.

Edit: Now the argument could be made to question the overall talent level of the current core, and make-up of the team. On offense I do believe they are better than they indicate as of now.

The defense however can barely help in the transition game, lacks footspeed, and overall talent. There is a huge disconnect between the forward core and D on the team.

Basically though, I do agree they need more overall talent, and not so many one trick ponies. Those players exist out there, its not some unicorn in the rainbow.

I'm noyt sure what you are getting at but yes of course they need to find the goals
- nastyflyergirl

Ha! Really, what I'm saying is that there's absolutely a time to develop young players -- and the Flyers should be doing that, absolutely. Young players need to develop.

But at the same time, no one should be guaranteed a spot in the NHL lineup because they're young, or because they play hard.

You should be in the lineup when you do those things and produce -- because at some point, instead of wondering if today is the day that "Young Player X" starts to fulfill his potential while losing games at the NHL level and getting no production, "The Next Young Player Who Is Producing in Adirodack" should get a shot.

As much as I admire and respect the Flyers organization for winning two Stanley Cups, that was a different era. Fewer teams, far better odds of winning a Cup.

I think the better question is this: How did the Flyers team advance in 2010, which is the modern era with 30 teams and a salary cap?

They had an aging-but-still-elite Chris Pronger dominate games. Do people remember just how dominant that guy was that season? Ten goals/45A, 55 points -- and then another 18 points in 23 playoff games.

He should've won the Norris Trophy that year, for my money.

They had two 30 goal scorers in Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and another guy, Daniel Briere, who finished with 26 in 75 games.

But they also had what I call "sneaky scoring." Simon Gagne was on a near 30-goal pace, with 17 goals in 58 games, in an injury-marred season. First-round picks Claude Giroux and JVR scored 16 and 15 goals, respectively.

And here is the kicker: Daniel Carcillo dropped 12 goals. Arron Asham had 10! Darroll Powe had nine!

We haven't even mentioned Scott Hartnell, who had 14 goals in a down season.

That's my point in this stuff: I absolutely don't mind young players like Giroux and JVR cracking the lineup that year. Have no problems with fourth-line players -- love guys who grind it out.

But you have to produce! You can't just sit there and say, "Well, you know, Zac Rinaldo plays hard. It doesn't matter that he doesn't score, as long as he hits and fights."

Well, you know what? It does matter! Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham played hard and hit and fight -- and scored goals! Defense and hitting and blocking shots and whatever else, playing hard -- those things are important.

But so is scoring goals! People just keep glossing over the fact that production matters.

You have to be able to score.
- AllInForFlyers

well put, though I think you sold the cup teams a little short. Winning

back to back cups in an era in which Montreal and Boston were both stacked was a very impressive accomplishment.

I have no prob with Cousins starting the season in the AHL but if the big club continues to struggle to score, I would hope either Cousins. Raffl or Akeson woul get called up.

This is why Im not a fan of a guy like Hall. Yes hes good on face-offs and decent on the PK but he brings NO offense at all and thats just not acceptable in a forward. As you pointed out. if your 4th liners cant chip in 7-10 goals and 15-20 pts you to look for some guys that can

As good as that team was, they had to win game 82 in a shootout to just make the playoffs. A favourable matchup against a much weaker Jersey squad, and the Habs were ripe for the picking by any team willing to outwork them.

Once they got to the finals they got outplayed for the most part imo.

I get what you are saying, but scoring is one thing. You need to have forwards who can contribute but also play well in their own end. Or you turn into Washington, which oddly enough the Flyers are pretty similar to.
- flyer_nutter

Man, I hear you -- but that's damn near the script Los Angeles had when they won their Cup, a couple of years ago.

They barely qualified, too.

Everything is so clear now
- funmaster18

i can see all obstacles in my way