How is that even a good comparison? Lupul is 4 years older than Toews. Toews is way better defensively and is still getting better. Lupul has hit his prime and is going to start declining in production in the next few years.
- nated81

I'm not disputing everything you've said, but definitely that Lupul has hit his prime. He's been getting better every year with the Leafs. Yeah, this might be as good as it gets with him, but there's nothing to indicate he's plateaued either.

But his current performance has been pretty spotty. And his health record has been even worse.
- djamon

Not really though, if you consider the change in assignment. He was playing against 3rd liners in his rookie season and lit everything up. This year he jumped right into the deep end and faced the toughest (#1 among Oiler forwards). This means he was nightly lining up against guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Kopitar, Doughty, Thornton, Datsyuk, Weber, Suter, Parise, Toews, Keith/Seabrook, I could go on. Not many 19 year old kids could do that and hold their own, which he did very well, especially defensively. I am not sure if you realize what a huge difference this is.

His health has all revolved around one shoulder injury from juniors, which he re-aggravated many times over the past two years. From all reports this surgery was 100% successful, and validated by a 7 year contract. No way the Oilers sign this deal if they are not sure about that part. Again, you have to be pretty pessimistic to pull the injury card in this case.

How is that even a good comparison? Lupul is 4 years older than Toews. Toews is way better defensively and is still getting better. Lupul has hit his prime and is going to start declining in production in the next few years.
- nated81

Obviously you missed the battle from pages 4-7.

I'm not disputing everything you've said, but definitely that Lupul has hit his prime. He's been getting better every year with the Leafs. Yeah, this might be as good as it gets with him, but there's nothing to indicate he's plateaued either.
- Jeffmt

Fair enough, he might have a bit more upside left in him but I think Toews has more upside still.

So lets say they did a bridge deal around 3 mil per for the next two years, saving the team $6 mil in the process. How much will they save if RNH has two good seasons and ends up getting close to $8mil per year for 7 years because the cap went up and comparables are signing for that amount? That's $62 mil over 9 years where as the current deal is only 42 over 6 years. This way they are saving $20 mil and 3 years.
- nated81

If he earns a max deal in 2 years he'll have basically put up 2 consecutive 90 point seasons and you'd WANT him locked up for the full 9 years.

OTOH if he misses 30 games a year you're gonna be able to get him for half of this deal. If you still want him. Either scenario is in play.

There's no twisting of numbers that suggests it's wise to pay a player before he's earned it when you don't have to. The Oilers have all the leverage, the players don't fault a team for making them sign bridge deals. The PA negotiated the rules of Free Agency. PK's gonna make himself a snotload of money...and the Habs will be happy as clams to pay it.

Obviously you missed the battle from pages 4-7.
- AdamFrench

Actually I did. my bad. I'll go check them out.

Obviously you missed the battle from pages 4-7.
- AdamFrench

FRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEENNNNCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYY!!!!!

If he earns a max deal in 2 years he'll have basically put up 2 consecutive 90 point seasons and you'd WANT him locked up for the full 9 years.

OTOH if he misses 30 games a year you're gonna be able to get him for half of this deal. If you still want him. Either scenario is in play.

There's no twisting of numbers that suggests it's wise to pay a player before he's earned it when you don't have to. The Oilers have all the leverage, the players don't fault a team for making them sign bridge deals. The PA negotiated the rules of Free Agency. PK's gonna make himself a snotload of money...and the Habs will be happy as clams to pay it.
- djamon

There's no denying it's a gamble -- All contracts are.

If we did the bridge -- Even if he did perform amazing over the next two years, we could sign him to a 7 year, 56 million dollar contract (8 million per) and he could end up getting hurt... 8 million in cap down the drain, versus 6. Everything is a gamble, there's no certainties in the NHL.

And again, it's not like other teams aren't doing it... Locking up your young players for 5-8 years is becoming more common... Just off the top of my head...

Stastny signed 5 years at 6.6 million per...
Landeskog signed 7 years at 5.6 million per year
Seguin signed 6 years 5.75 million per
Doughty signed 8 years 7 million per
E. Kane signed 5 years at 5.25 million per
P. Kane signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Towes signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Skinner signed 6 years at 5.725 million per

Also, it's probably worth mentioning that Edmonton were offering Clarkson more. Go figure.
- Jeffmt

Clarkson is a blight on both your houses.

There's no denying it's a gamble -- In a sense, all contracts are.

If we did the bridge -- Even if he did perform amazing over the next two years, we could sign him to a 7 year, 56 million dollar contract (8 million per) and he could end up getting hurt... 8 million in cap down the drain, versus 6. Everything is a gamble, there's no certainties in the NHL.

And again, it's not like other teams aren't doing it... Locking up your young players for 5-8 years is becoming more common... Just off the top of my head...

Stastny signed 5 years at 6.6 million per...
Landeskog signed 7 years at 5.6 million per year
Seguin signed 6 years 5.75 million per
Doughty signed 8 years 7 million per
E. Kane signed 5 years at 5.25 million per
P. Kane signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Towes signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Skinner signed 6 years at 5.725 million per
- laughs2907

That's an interesting list...some big names.

How many of those deals are regretted by their teams? Maybe 4 of them?

That's an interesting list...some big names.

How many of those deals are regretted by their teams? Maybe 4 of them?
- djamon

4?

4?
- laughs2907

Just my opinion...but I bet if they were honest the Avs, Bruins, Canes and Avs again would want a redo on those deals

Edit: Seguin, Landy, Stastny and Skinner all regressed after signing their deals.

Just my opinion...but I bet if they were honest the Avs, Bruins, Canes and Avs again would want a redo on those deals.
- djamon

That just showed how little you know

Just my opinion...but I bet if they were honest the Avs, Bruins, Canes and Avs again would want a redo on those deals

Edit: Seguin, Landy, Stastny and Skinner all regressed after signing their deals.
- djamon

Landry hasent played yet
Seguin was used very badly
Skinner was injured give him a break
And Stastney Is bad

That's an interesting list...some big names.

How many of those deals are regretted by their teams? Maybe 4 of them?
- djamon

only statsny and seguin... and even then, seguin still might be alright

That just showed how little you know
- Oilers42

You think the Avs are happy paying Stastny 6.6m? So happy they've drafted 2 centres since signing him.

How happy were the Bruins with Seguin when they traded him for 75c on the dollar?

Landry hasent played yet
Seguin was used very badly
Skinner was injured give him a break
And Stastney Is bad
- Oilers42

Landy's the (frank)in captain...
Seguin was ditched cause of depth and opportunity
Skinner's no bust
Statsny is the only real question mark... seguin still needs to prove himself, but I think he'll be fine

only statsny and seguin... and even then, seguin still might be alright
- BigDre

Skinner's production has dropped for 2 straight years. Landeskog was awful last year after being great his rookie year.

Landy's the (frank)in captain...
Seguin was ditched cause of depth and opportunity
Skinner's no bust
Statsny is the only real question mark... seguin still needs to prove himself, but I think he'll be fine
- BigDre

I meant as in with his new contract

In honour of this momentous day I went out and bought a new Nugent-hopkens stick and nhl 14.

Landy's the (frank)in captain...
Seguin was ditched cause of depth and opportunity
Skinner's no bust
Statsny is the only real question mark... seguin still needs to prove himself, but I think he'll be fine
- BigDre

Stastny is also 27, while the rest of those guys are 21 and under. If you look back to where Stastny was projecting to be after his first couple seasons and what he did in the first couple years of his 2nd contract, it wasn't that bad of a deal. His contract is up after this season and will probably have to take a bit of a pay cut. The Avs needed to at least take a chance on him when he was younger, just like a lot of teams are doing these days.

I meant as in with his new contract
- Oilers42

The longer term hedges late returns against early losses. No teams regret these deals yet because they're structured to pay off in the later years. The cap is expected to go up by next year (This lookout was meaningless iow, but that's another conversation.).

In a few years, Landeskog, Hall, Eberle, Skinner, Tavares and a few others will be the names behind Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos instead of who's there now.

I'm really not worried about any of the Oiler kids contracts... think it's a great system actually considering you have 3 1st overalls, 1 22nd overall who has seen a 1st overalls season success (34g in y2 and still looks awesome), with J.Schultz having the potential to be a big ticket signing as well. If this works out, the Oil could have the best cap space situation in three years from now when the cap is close to $80m again.

Stastny is also 27, while the rest of those guys are 21 and under. If you look back to where Stastny was projecting to be after his first couple seasons and what he did in the first couple years of his 2nd contract, it wasn't that bad of a deal. His contract is up after this season and will probably have to take a bit of a pay cut. The Avs needed to at least take a chance on him when he was younger, just like a lot of teams are doing these days.
- nated81

yup, that's why he's a question mark. All this proves is that guys who come with high expectations are given a longer time to prove their worth. All the Oil kids will be around that age when their contracts come up, meaning their longer term value will be closer to being known then now.

It's the best gamble you can make in this kind of league.

4-4.5?

Stastny signed 5 years at 6.6 million per...
Landeskog signed 7 years at 5.6 million per year
Seguin signed 6 years 5.75 million per
Doughty signed 8 years 7 million per
E. Kane signed 5 years at 5.25 million per
P. Kane signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Towes signed 5 years at 6.3 million per
Skinner signed 6 years at 5.725 million per

Just a few comparables off the top of my head.

And bridge contracts are potential cap hell.
- laughs2907

Yeah but 4 of those guys have won the cup, and one is in the last year of the contract, so really not as similar as you might want to believe.

do you want the guy who scored 24 and 29 goals the first two years playing with castoffs, or the guy who scored 18 goals and 4 goals player with 1st overall draft picks?
- Isles_since_6

Since he plays alongside snipe ebs, i probably prefer the set up guy and assists.
Which he clearly has far more if their ppg are identical!

But for realz, im just stating a meaningless counterpoint. Just like you are. You're picking a choosing the stats that help your argument, but ignoring the ones that dont.

Tavares is fantastic, but also alot of media hype.
The numbers say they were extremely comparable 2 years into thir careers.
You just cant get around it man