matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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Perfect Kadri with Kessel
Grabo with JVR and Clarkson crashing the net for rebounds - jribout
as long as o'byrne is playing d, then we are fine. kessel hasn't been scored on even strength when o'byrne is play d, coincidence? i think not
edit: sorry, make that a lashoff and o'byrne pairing. 0 GA per 20 while playing with kessel. it will be the ultimate shut down pairing guys |
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burn
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON Joined: 08.02.2006
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Damn, I thought I read 2010 from you. My bad.
From 2011 to 2013 lol
http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2011-13&sit=5v5
With Bozak
GF per 20: 0.947
GA per 20: 0.974
Without Bozak
GF per 20: 1.253
GA per 20: 1.097
From 2012 to 2013
http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2012-13&sit=5v5
With Bozak
GF per 20: 0.972
GA per 20: 0.907
Without Bozak
GF per 20: 1.397
GA per 20: 0.776
Same results every timeframe. - daeth
So in career year he scored more without bozak what's worse is this past year his ga got better without bozak.
No way to spin that one. |
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burn
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON Joined: 08.02.2006
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Daeth, that's the most compelling, logical post in this thread, and if people try to ignore those facts, they're either really stubborn, or incapable.
The myth of Tyler Bozak and Phil Kessel's chemistry indeed! - mykokes
Indeed. |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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So in career year he scored more without bozak what's worse is this past year his ga got better without bozak.
No way to spin that one. - burn
must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice |
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Leafland
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: MATTHEW 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last.", ON Joined: 10.25.2011
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Those are all even strength numbers.
And yeah, the other samples are small.
Kessel from 2012 to 2013
617:29 with Bozak recorded in those stats. 128:48 without. - daeth
That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s. |
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daeth
Colorado Avalanche |
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Location: 43 points, ON Joined: 09.15.2005
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must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice - matt1337
Norris! Give that man a raise! |
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daeth
Colorado Avalanche |
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Location: 43 points, ON Joined: 09.15.2005
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That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s. - Leafland
It certainly makes the stats less meaningful, but at the same time it's still the best way to tell if Kessel is better with or without Bozak via stats that I know of at the moment without coming up with some crazy formula.
The fact that year to year we're getting similar results helps though. |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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Norris! Give that man a raise! - daeth
if they don't resign o'byrne i will start a riot |
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daeth
Colorado Avalanche |
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Location: 43 points, ON Joined: 09.15.2005
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bahahahah, then I will apologize to HH. But you've put in the work, presented your facts. Best way to check is ask Yost. - mykokes
CORSI!
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jribout
Season Ticket Holder Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 01.24.2011
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must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice - matt1337
Little pissed your cabana boy Bozak's aura has been shown to be fake are we? |
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orienbrady22
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Windsor, ON Joined: 02.14.2013
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That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s. - Leafland
Who knows.... they could skew the values in favour of making Bozak look better than he really is as well. One would think if Kessel was given more of a chance to play with Grabo or Kadri, that they would get better the more they played together.. |
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PrinceLH
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Belleville, ON Joined: 07.06.2007
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Yes sir! Bozak did a decent job but we are better off with Kadri#1, Grabbo#2, Bolland #3
I'm just thinking if kessel made Bozak into a 5 mil a year player, what will he do for Kadri - coolehmon41
We need to keep Kadri in the two hole and bring in a Lecavelier type player. If we get Kessel a first line center, he might be inclined to re-sign here, next year. Add Lecavalier, add a top 4 defenseman and David Clarkson and we may be in line to win a series or two. |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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Little pissed your cabana boy Bozak's aura has been shown to be fake are we? - jribout
i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible |
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daeth
Colorado Avalanche |
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Location: 43 points, ON Joined: 09.15.2005
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Who knows.... they could skew the values in favour of making Bozak look better than he really is as well. One would think if Kessel was given more of a chance to play with Grabo or Kadri, that they would get better the more they played together.. - orienbrady22
The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though. |
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Leafland
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: MATTHEW 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last.", ON Joined: 10.25.2011
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The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though. - daeth
Well, a good chunck of the minutes without Bozak this year, would be when he missed the last two games because of his "upper body injury".
Florida and Montreal. Kessel recorded 3goals and was an even +/-. |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though. - daeth
exactly, and kadri isnt ready to be our #1, and we all know how grabo plays, i dont think him and kessel would mesh well on a line. i'm also not open to putting bolland there (similar to bozak, one could argue he has a greater offensive potential) but we need someone else to replace bozak then those 3 |
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orienbrady22
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Windsor, ON Joined: 02.14.2013
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exactly, and kadri isnt ready to be our #1, and we all know how grabo plays, i dont think him and kessel would mesh well on a line. i'm also not open to putting bolland there (similar to bozak, one could argue he has a greater offensive potential) but we need someone else to replace bozak then those 3 - matt1337
Why isnt kadri ready to be a #1 center? |
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iTOLDu
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: MI Joined: 10.26.2011
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Kessel's on-ice goals for and against avg numbers since 2009 are better without Bozak than they are with him. Bozak's defensive abilities are grossly overrated.
http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2009-13&sit=5v5
Kessel since 2009 with Bozak (on-ice ES stats)
Goals for per 20 minutes: 0.895
Goals against per 20 minutes: 0.975
Kessel since 2009 without Bozak (on-ice ES stats)
Goals for per 20 minutes: 1.043
Goals against per 20 minutes: 0.977
^^ bump these stats - daeth
He doesn't get it
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burn
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON Joined: 08.02.2006
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i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible - matt1337
I'm all for replacing bozak with someone defensive responsible. "Defensively responsible" would be an upgrade. |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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Why isnt kadri ready to be a #1 center? - orienbrady22
really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop |
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matt1337
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: 925K. Talented player. (Lehtonen) Santo_44, ON Joined: 09.28.2010
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I'm all for replacing bozak win someone defensive responsible. "Defensively responsible" would be an upgrade. - burn
so you are saying bozak isn't defensively responsible? |
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Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
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i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible - matt1337
Bolland.
C'mon, we all knew Bozak was a third liner.
We replaced him with Bolland.
Get Clarkson.
Lupul - Kadri - kessel
Jvr - Grabbo - Ckarkson
Kulemin - Bolland - McClement
The wings will make up for the weak centres.
It's doable. Yeah, Malkin and Crosby are better.
But take a look at my lines again.
Does adding Bozak make them any better? |
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kylkri
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: castleton, ON Joined: 08.07.2010
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really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop - matt1337
I cant say I disagree. Im pretty sure I remember Nonis saying that he plans on using bolland in a larger role than what he played on Chicago. Is a larger role the 2C spot? Or just more time on special teams. If its the 2 spot does Kadri become #1 by default?
edit: I guess leafs could just utilize the 3rd line on a larger scale as a whole |
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jribout
Season Ticket Holder Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 01.24.2011
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really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop - matt1337
Check game vs Tampa matched up vs stamkos... also check games 6 and 7 of the playoffs.... |
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orienbrady22
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Windsor, ON Joined: 02.14.2013
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really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop - matt1337
How many full seasons did Bozak get before he was our number one? |
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