Seems like the Flyers defensive core always is injured. Not sure how these other teams stay healthy for the most part.

Even with injuries you have to make adjustments and play to your strengths. I don't think the Flyers are a bad team but are they a true contender next year?
- stveshdy

I think a lot depends if Coots, Gus and B. Schenn take the next step. They are still very young and gaining experience. If they reach their potential, then "yes" they are a contender. However, potential is such a dangerous word.

I don't know, I can't kill the organization when three of your potential top 6 d-man (Pronger, MAB, Grossmann) are suffering from concussions. I don't know how concussions are avoided other then luck.
Now, I can certainly question the evaluation process from the scouting department when it comes to evaluating d-man in the draft.
- ravishingone

-They are now praying that the Iron Man routine with Timonen holds up.
-Grossman had injury concerns coming in.
-Guss has injury questions also.
-They are praying that Coburn rebounds instead of sticking with chronic inconsistency as has been a career norm for him.

To me, it seems too often, they hope and pray on rainbows, and realism hits them in the face when all the magic doesnt come together.

Again, this is just as of now, I do expect them to make other moves, but they are in the poophole they are for a reason regarding that back end, and I think to simply blame injuries is an excuse. They hoped and prayed the aging vets would/will stay healthy, and did very little to bring in quality young talent to the back end.

Far too much focus on winning now, and too little on the future imo.

Holmgren should have that contract shoved up his ass along with the rest of the crew for waiting so long to fix the D, or bring in quality youth to it.

They are paying the price now. I do think some of his moves have been great, and its a big summer for him.

Although I really do believe they dug themselves this hole on their own with regards to the D, and he may not even be able to do anything to begin with. Teams dont really seem to be too willing to give up quality D.

Edit: I know many here are against Lava, and my defense of him isn't as strong as it once was. Personally, I am growing more and more tired of Holmgren and whoever is really in charge of player development.
- flyer_nutter

The biggest reason they are in a hole with the defense, is the freak injury to Chris Pronger. Not sure how they can be blamed for digging a hole in that case.

-They are now praying that the Iron Man routine with Timonen holds up.
-Grossman had injury concerns coming in.
-Guss has injury questions also.
-They are praying that Coburn rebounds instead of sticking with chronic inconsistency as has been a career norm for him.

To me, it seems too often, they hope and pray on rainbows, and realism hits them in the face when all the magic doesnt come together.

Again, this is just as of now, I do expect them to make other moves, but they are in the poophole they are for a reason regarding that back end, and I think to simply blame injuries is an excuse. They hoped and prayed the aging vets would/will stay healthy, and did very little to bring in quality young talent to the back end.

Far too much focus on winning now, and too little on the future imo.
- flyer_nutter

The Flyers may not always realize they can do both but they usually select one path and go all out for it.

-They are now praying that the Iron Man routine with Timonen holds up.
-Grossman had injury concerns coming in.
-Guss has injury questions also.
-They are praying that Coburn rebounds instead of sticking with chronic inconsistent as has been a career norm for him.

To me, it seems too often, they hope and pray on rainbows, and realism hits them in the face when all the magic doesnt come together.

Again, this is just as of now, I do expect them to make other moves, but they are in the poophole they are for a reason regarding that back end, and I think to simply blame injuries is an excuse. They hoped and prayed the aging vets would/will stay healthy, and did very little to bring in quality young talent to the back end.
- flyer_nutter

I don't believe injuries are an excuse, but certainly contributing to the lack of depth. Honestly, I don't see the Rangers (yes Staal), Bruins, and Hawks getting rocked with career threatening injuries on the back end like the Flyers. However, may be a silver lining from this past season was guys like Gus and Lauridson when given a chance held their own when given the opportunity against a pretty tough schedule. Again, it was a limited sample certainly.

Understand, I like to lean towards the optimistic side of being a fan. Not a Kool-Aid drinker, but I think this team is closer in talent to the Pens as opposed to the Panthers (I know FLA beat them in the season series this year).

I don't believe injuries are an excuse, but certainly contributing to the lack of depth. Honestly, I don't see the Rangers (yes Staal), Bruins, and Hawks getting rocked with career threatening injuries on the back end like the Flyers. However, may be a silver lining from this past season was guys like Gus and Lauridson when given a chance held their own when given the opportunity against a pretty tough schedule. Again, it was a limited sample certainly.
- ravishingone

The Bruins drafted Hamilton. Flyers draft Coots already knowing their window for defense is closing quickly.

Where the injuries are an excuse for me, is they knew that Pronger and Timonen wouldnt be able to hold up forever. They did basically jack poop in that time to bring in quality young talent to the back end. Or very little.

I'm suprised as hell that Timonen has held up the way he has, and they are damn lucky for it.

Thats where proper drafting, which is SUBJECTIVE to each team, and proper player development would come in. The best thing the Flyers have to show since the new nhl began is Guss. Regarding a player (d-man) they drafted and developed themselves.

The days of buying, or trading for a whole d-core/team are coming to a quick end imo.

I Understand, I like to lean towards the optimistic side of being a fan. Not a Kool-Aid drinker, but I think this team is closer in talent to the Pens as opposed to the Panthers (I know FLA beat them in the season series this year).
- ravishingone

They arent the worst thing on earth. At the end of the day we are all fans, who instead of talking cap sometimes prefer to look at ways to improve the team.

I do think they have talent, and can be on a good path that may take a few years. The thing is though, they have to stick to a good path, and imo not do a lot of the things they have done in the past.

If the organization believes Bryz can become the elite goaltender they signed him for, then I believe he sticks. However, with the changes to the CBA, I just don't see them taking that gamble.

Second, if they believe Bernier could be an even better option then Bryz, this is pretty much the offseason to get him. Quick's extension kicks in and he certainly is entrenched. Bernier is just about 25 and I would assume his agent his shopping his client just like an UFA (I know he is a RFA). I think he has more of a pedigree to succeed then Bishop. I don't believe Bernier will be available next offseason. I don't believe the Kings will want to invest that much cap room in a back-up when your starter is young, a cup winner, and pretty dam impressive the last two playoff runs.

Also, you would think Bobby Lu would be amnested in Vancouver. However, for all the grumbling on how the Flyers are managed, who the hell knows what is going to happen in Vancouver.
- ravishingone

gillis def blew it not dealing Lu while he could. buyout of bryz is inevitable this yr or nxt.

i like bernier, but we don't know a) if he's good enuf to be a solid #1 or b) what type of assets it would take to pry him out of LA.

gillis def blew it not dealing Lu while he could. buyout of bryz is inevitable this yr or nxt.

i like bernier, but we don't know a) if he's good enuf to be a solid #1 or b) what type of assets it would take to pry him out of LA.
- isaiah520

Next year could be a big year for goalies.

If Lehner continues to improve, Anderson may be available.

The Bruins drafted Hamilton. Flyers draft Coots already knowing their window for defense is closing quickly.

Where the injuries are an excuse for me, is they knew that Pronger and Timonen wouldnt be able to hold up forever. They did basically jack poop in that time to bring in quality young talent to the back end. Or very little.

I'm suprised as hell that Timonen has held up the way he has, and they are damn lucky for it.

Thats where proper drafting, which is SUBJECTIVE to each team, and proper player development would come in. The best thing the Flyers have to show since the new nhl began is Guss. Regarding a player (d-man) they drafted and developed themselves.

The days of buying, or trading for a whole d-core/team are coming to a quick end imo.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not so sure about that because the new CBA did absolutely nothing for small and mid-market teams long-term. Sure they lowered the percentage of the player's cut, but I don't see the cap staying at $64 million for too many seasons. The cap floor is just going to be going up, talent will be available simply because of the inequity of available cash is so varied from team to team. IMO, I think the cap will be back to $70 million within 4 years, if I recall the latest CBA will last 8 years.

They arent the worst thing on earth. At the end of the day we are all fans, who instead of talking cap sometimes prefer to look at ways to improve the team.

I do think they have talent, and can be on a good path that may take a few years. The thing is though, they have to stick to a good path, and imo not do a lot of the things they have done in the past.
- flyer_nutter

Hopefully the Flyers draft a nice class this year.

The Bruins drafted Hamilton. Flyers draft Coots already knowing their window for defense is closing quickly.

Where the injuries are an excuse for me, is they knew that Pronger and Timonen wouldnt be able to hold up forever. They did basically jack poop in that time to bring in quality young talent to the back end. Or very little.

I'm suprised as hell that Timonen has held up the way he has, and they are damn lucky for it.

Thats where proper drafting, which is SUBJECTIVE to each team, and proper player development would come in. The best thing the Flyers have to show since the new nhl began is Guss. Regarding a player (d-man) they drafted and developed themselves.

The days of buying, or trading for a whole d-core/team are coming to a quick end imo.
- flyer_nutter

salary cap takes care of that alone

I'm not so sure about that because the new CBA did absolutely nothing for small and mid-market teams long-term. Sure they lowered the percentage of the player's cut, but I don't see the cap staying at $64 million for too many seasons. The cap floor is just going to be going up, talent will be available simply because of the inequity of available cash is so varied from team to team. IMO, I think the cap will be back to $70 million within 4 years, if I recall the latest CBA will last 8 years.
- ravishingone

What I mean about that, is teams seem to be locking up their talent, especially young D, or quality d-men before they even become available to FA. Look at the trend since the new cap nhl began, less and less quality D-men are hitting FA or are even available.

I hope Holmgren doesnt put too much hope to building a team on FA, he got shown a few times with Hamhuis, Suter and Parise that it may not be the best choice.

gillis def blew it not dealing Lu while he could. buyout of bryz is inevitable this yr or nxt.

i like bernier, but we don't know a) if he's good enuf to be a solid #1 or b) what type of assets it would take to pry him out of LA.
- isaiah520

Time to move on from Bryzgalov. I don't care if they land Bernier or not. Mason will have to be the guy for a season (possible deadline) if he fails. I still think he can give you the same production as Bryz for a quarter of the cost.

No effing way I give Streit 6 mil per. That is insane.
- MBFlyerfan

i'd prefer one year 6 mil to 5 mil a year for 4

Hopefully the Flyers draft a nice class this year.
- stveshdy

Which is where the scouting department comes in. Sure they could take d-men in every round.

However I dont believe the notion that its some total crapshoot for anything other than forwards.

BPA is always subjective to the scouting crew of each team. They have some good picks this year, I really hope they dont send one off for a guy like J-Bow.

gillis def blew it not dealing Lu while he could. buyout of bryz is inevitable this yr or nxt.

i like bernier, but we don't know a) if he's good enuf to be a solid #1 or b) what type of assets it would take to pry him out of LA.
- isaiah520

Agree with everyone you wrote. However, someone is going to give Bernier the chance to be a #1 goalie. I just don't see how his agent will just allow him to sign his tender and remain the back-up in LA.

Time to move on from Bryzgalov. I don't care if they land Bernier or not. Mason will have to be the guy for a season (possible deadline) if he fails. I still think he can give you the same production as Bryz for a quarter of the cost.
- stveshdy

Mason has a good chance of being better than 35th in the league at save %, (which about where our starter was), for his salary, so we really are no worse off.

I'm not so sure about that because the new CBA did absolutely nothing for small and mid-market teams long-term. Sure they lowered the percentage of the player's cut, but I don't see the cap staying at $64 million for too many seasons. The cap floor is just going to be going up, talent will be available simply because of the inequity of available cash is so varied from team to team. IMO, I think the cap will be back to $70 million within 4 years, if I recall the latest CBA will last 8 years.
- ravishingone

I agree. There is always going to be defenseman available one way or another. The artificial lowering of the Cap for a year or two, is going to put the squeeze on some teams. But that will go up at some point. I don't think the landscape of the NHL is all of a sudden going to change. You do need to draft and develop defenseman. But it's being made far more of a big deal then it really is.

Agree with everyone you wrote. However, someone is going to give Bernier the chance to be a #1 goalie. I just don't see how his agent will just allow him to sign his tender and remain the back-up in LA.
- ravishingone

Most teams seem pretty locked in with their goaltending though no?

On second thought, I guess the Flames, Oilers, Minny, Isles and maybe Tampa could have interest.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: On Goalie Drafting and Baked Potatoes
- bmeltzer

Pronger is Mashed Potatoes, Bryz is a Baked Potato!

Pronger is Mashed Potatoes, Bryz is a Baked Potato!
- Byfuglien Ate Me

Cruel, but funny. Reimer looks to be developing nicely.

Most teams seem pretty locked in with their goaltending though no?

On second thought, I guess the Flames, Oilers, Minny, Isles and maybe Tampa could have interest.
- flyer_nutter

New Jersey, throw them in there as well

Mason has a good chance of being better than 35th in the league at save %, (which about where our starter was), for his salary, so we really are no worse off.
- puckhead17

I agree.

i'd prefer one year 6 mil to 5 mil a year for 4
- FlyerMike18

So do I but I don't see that happening.