(your sites dont work for me at work, and i can't see whatever pic you posted)

so what you're saying is Karlsson is a shutdown D
- Habitants98

What I'm saying is Karlsson dominated the best players on every team in the NHL last season, the stats show it. He played against the best and scored in droves. He shut them down by keeping them out of our zone 90% of the time.

PK has been playing against weak competition this year, the stats show it, yet you two are in here yelling at me, telling me I'm a liar, and thinking that if you put enough laughy faces in your posts, maybe what I'm saying won't be true anymore.

And what you're saying is you havent looked at a SINGLE thing I've shown you, but you still feel confident in telling me I'm wrong?

That's just being a jerk.

The criteria for awarding the Norris is flawed...but being what it is, Subban deserves it as much as Karlsson did last year. I still hope he doesn't win it.
- God_then_kovy

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How many habs games have you watched to say that Subban faces third liners? We've told you many times that in his first 5-7 games he was eased into the lineup playing alongside Bouillion on the 3rd pairing and has since been facing the other team's top lines. Him and Gorges are out there in the final minute of 1 goal games just as much as Markov/Emelin. You're just blinded by your hate.
- God_then_kovy

Any which way Tommy looks at it. EVEN IF Subban played against "third liners" all the time. It's still not a good enough argument for him NOT to be nominated considering all of the other statistics.

While playing against third line quality players. Why do you refuse to acknowledge the stats I'm showing you?

If you want to call Rob Vollum a liar, go ahead. I don't care. I'm just showing you his carefully prepared figures, done up by people who know more about hockey and are generally far more intelligent than you'll ever be, but no, you're right, they're wrong.

I'm done. You people are all too in love with his flashy game to bother reading what I've given you.
- TommyDeVito

see ya!

What I'm saying is Karlsson dominated the best players on every team in the NHL last season, the stats show it. He played against the best and scored in droves. He shut them down by keeping them out of our zone 90% of the time.

PK has been playing against weak competition this year, the stats show it, yet you two are in here yelling at me, telling me I'm a liar, and thinking that if you put enough laughy faces in your posts, maybe what I'm saying won't be true anymore.

And what you're saying is you havent looked at a SINGLE thing I've shown you, but you still feel confident in telling me I'm wrong?

That's just being a jerk.
- TommyDeVito

take a hint.

Really curious about where tommy boy will be when PK is nominated...

I'm done. You people are all too in love with his flashy game to bother reading what I've given you.
- TommyDeVito

none of us is saying he will win it, or should win it,

we just dont understand how you can claim with the way he's playing that he doesnt even deserve a nod

its pretty ridiculous (especially to see how far you're going)

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- TommyDeVito

i didn't realize i was talking to a kid

none of us is saying he will win it, or should win it,

we just dont understand how you can claim with the way he's playing that he doesnt even deserve a nod

its pretty ridiculous (especially to see how far you're going)
- Habitants98

yup

i didn't realize i was talking to a kid
- God_then_kovy

jesus really???

i didn't realize i was talking to a kid
- God_then_kovy

He does have excellent grammar though!

What I'm saying is Karlsson dominated the best players on every team in the NHL last season, the stats show it. He played against the best and scored in droves. He shut them down by keeping them out of our zone 90% of the time.

PK has been playing against weak competition this year, the stats show it, yet you two are in here yelling at me, telling me I'm a liar, and thinking that if you put enough laughy faces in your posts, maybe what I'm saying won't be true anymore.

And what you're saying is you havent looked at a SINGLE thing I've shown you, but you still feel confident in telling me I'm wrong?

That's just being a jerk.
- TommyDeVito

Karlsson played against the best and scored in droves. He shut them down 90% of the time.

Subban plays against weak opposition and stats (?) show it.

Could you be any more of a homer?

blah blah blah.....etc...etc....
And what you're saying is you havent looked at a SINGLE thing I've shown you, but you still feel confident in telling me I'm wrong?

That's just being a jerk.
- TommyDeVito

i'm just impressed that you're trying to convince several Habs fans who watch likely every game or every other Habs game about who is and who isnt a shutdown D on our team....its cute....why would i bother looking at your stats when i can see who's on the ice when, in the games

this guy was handling 25 minutes a game without markov last year on the 15th place team in the east and still managed to be a plus player with pretty much only him and Gorges always on the ice and you're trying to convince me because of your skewed stats due to missing first 6 games plus being slowly brought back in this season

you're REALLY trying to tell me he's not shutdown D??? cute

i'm just impressed that you're trying to convince several Habs fans who watch likely every game or every other Habs game about who is and who isnt a shutdown D on our team....its cute....why would i bother looking at your stats when i can see who's on the ice when, in the games

this guy was handling 25 minutes a game without markov last year on the 15th place team in the east and still managed to be a plus player with pretty much only him and Gorges always on the ice and you're trying to convince me because of your skewed stats due to missing first 6 games plus being slowly brought back in this season

you're REALLY trying to tell me he's not shutdown D??? cute
- Habitants98

Tommy is entertaining and quite brave though, gotta give him that.

i'm just impressed that you're trying to convince several Habs fans who watch likely every game or every other Habs game about who is and who isnt a shutdown D on our team....its cute....why would i bother looking at your stats when i can see who's on the ice when, in the games

this guy was handling 25 minutes a game without markov last year on the 15th place team in the east and still managed to be a plus player with pretty much only him and Gorges always on the ice and you're trying to convince me because of your skewed stats due to missing first 6 games plus being slowly brought back in this season

you're REALLY trying to tell me he's not shutdown D??? cute
- Habitants98

Exactly!

I'd like to see the stats on Letang.

Is there a formula for inflation based on the fact he plays on a team with two of the most lethal scorers in the world?

Letang obviously is key, but you can't tell me his numbers aren't inflated by his surroundings. Look at how many players the habs have in top scoring

Karlsson is another matter. IMO he deserved the win and is underestimated in the defensive zone. He truly is a fantastic defensemen.

Tommy is entertaining and quite brave though, gotta give him that.
- God_then_kovy

no doubt! little does he know Habs fans are the toughest critics on Subban

I'd like to see the stats on Letang.

Is there a formula for inflation based on the fact he plays on a team with two of the most lethal scorers in the world?

Letang obviously is key, but you can't tell me his numbers aren't inflated by his surroundings. Look at how many players the habs have in top scoring

Karlsson is another matter. IMO he deserved the win and is underestimated in the defensive zone. He truly is a fantastic defensemen.
- blarneylad

Indeed. He made huge steps defensively in the past few years and deserves all the praise he's received. Amazing vision with the puck.

Letang's numbers benefit from Crosby/Malkin of course, but he's a stud and would be just as good on any team imo.

Probably a troll sub account, can't believe someone can be that stupid...

Not watching habs game...
Trying to convince people who watched all habs game that subban plays against 3rd line



He played close to 30 min almost every game last year, being our #1 and paired against 1st line. But the team sucked and he didnt put up much points (also, Jacques Martin's trap).

This year, he's still paired against the best players but as less TOI because compared to last year, we have Markov, a better Emelin and Bouillon (add a better Diaz first 1/2 of this season). He's now 1st D for points BUT he souldnt be considered because of some random charts ?!

lol.

Guys come on.

Stats are everything to analyzing hockey.

No need to watch the games to have an opinion.

I'd like to see the stats on Letang.

Is there a formula for inflation based on the fact he plays on a team with two of the most lethal scorers in the world?

Letang obviously is key, but you can't tell me his numbers aren't inflated by his surroundings. Look at how many players the habs have in top scoring

Karlsson is another matter. IMO he deserved the win and is underestimated in the defensive zone. He truly is a fantastic defensemen.
- blarneylad

oh for sure i mean by all means on the Pens Subban would be putting up those numbers no problem

and its true Karlsson is a freak, its not just his offense which is overwhelming its the scary thought that he can do this at 21, and can only get better, he won it last year for being an absolute freak, that being said its true he's got some work to do, but i still wouldnt take it away from him

he's gonna be the kind of player who doesnt need to do as much physically because he's so much smarter than everyone on the ice, Lidstrom-lite with Flash

i've got a major beef with Subban's one hand puck controls, i cringe everytime, and lately the teams have been smart enough to pressure him as soon as he takes it with one hand, its resulted in a turnover ALOT recentyly, gotta chill on that PK especially when he's on the blue line and last man back that drives me crazy

Guys come on.

Stats are everything to analyzing hockey.

No need to watch the games to have an opinion.
- Scabeh

Baseball.

i'm just impressed that you're trying to convince several Habs fans who watch likely every game or every other Habs game about who is and who isnt a shutdown D on our team....its cute....why would i bother looking at your stats when i can see who's on the ice when, in the games

this guy was handling 25 minutes a game without markov last year on the 15th place team in the east and still managed to be a plus player with pretty much only him and Gorges always on the ice and you're trying to convince me because of your skewed stats due to missing first 6 games plus being slowly brought back in this season

you're REALLY trying to tell me he's not shutdown D??? cute
- Habitants98

When have I ever said that? you're twisting my words.

What I said was, he hasn't played against the best competition this year.

In fact, in this post when you're talking about him LAST YEAR, you're completely correct. He played against the best, his charts show that. This year hasn't been the same story.

none of us is saying he will win it, or should win it,

we just dont understand how you can claim with the way he's playing that he doesnt even deserve a nod

its pretty ridiculous (especially to see how far you're going)
- Habitants98

A "nod" implies he's been a top three player at his position this season, and he hasn't been, and I'm backing up my opinion with facts.

You're just talking about his skills and using that to tell me I'm wrong, which is absurd. Kovalev was extremely skilled, I don't recall him ever being awarded a Hart Trophy.

But like I said, it's too hard to have a good debate with a group of people who keep repeating the same things without any proof besides "but i watch the games and i know what I think Ive seen" and "stats are stupid" and "But Subban is super good!", and then deciding they'd rather just try and be demeaning with things like "LOL" and " " and "You must be a kid lol are u dumb lol you cant be serious bro lol must be a troll lol I don't like what he has to say"