IMO they do not have a glut of forwards. They have at most 1 NHL caliber forward graduating to the NHL next year and that would be Laughton. If Briere get's bought out/traded then that's it. There's noone to replace Schenn or Couterier.

The Flyers were so desperate at forward this year they brought in Knuble and Fedotenko in the middle of the year. This depth the Flyers have to offset the loss of a forward, i'm not seeing it. In addition, Gagne is a UFA. While he has been useful for the Flyers, the Kings thank the Flyers for giving them a 4th round pick for a 3.5mill/yr healthy scratch. The last time Gagne was dealt in a salary dump the Flyers had to take salary back in the form of Matt Walker (who the Flyers are still paying in the minors). The Kings seem to be far better at dumping salary than the Flyers.
- Flyers_01

Knuble was brought in because they felt his experience could help the team, unfortunately it didn't. Flyers are fine for forwards. Laughton could fill Couturiers skates if we chose to trade him which IMO I would only do for a young proven top pairing defeceman. Flyers have plenty of depth with guys like Read on 3rd line, i think Gagne should be put with Giroux and Vorachek. You got Zolnierczyk, Mcginn and Wellwood who I believe are capable of stepping in. I say unless you can upgrade the Defence long term. Flyers should stay the way they are and just move/buyout Briere

The Flyers are having trouble scoring at times, due to the way they play. And because some players currently aren't scoring. Even without Briere, they have plenty of offensive depth.
- MJL

I'm pretty sure they barely notice his 5 goals this season. And I'm pretty sure that production level is easily replaced.

Here is the thing MJL. I couldn't post last night as I'm on the West Coast and the discussion had passed by the Time I read it. I fundamentally agree with your position though that you make deals with a larger strategy in mind, not just to trade someone because you can get something.

So yes, Coots has a higher upside than Laughton, though I don't personally think that is as high as you, Bill, and others. But I've always maintained that position, it hasn't changed either way this year. But we both agree he has a high ceiling and hence trade value.

But the larger strategy says long term they have four centers, excluding Briere but including Laughton for three spots since all of them rate higher than 4th center. G is a lock, and Schenn's skill set is different than Laughton or Coots. I think he has highest offensice upside. Laughton has less offennsive upside so he is your three on a checking line. Either Schenn or Coots is your 2. Coots has more value so you trade him in my book.

So it is not coots > Laughton, it is Coots = Laughton + the asset they get for Coots
- TheGreat28

Or Coots + the asset they get for Laughton is even greater than your proposed scenario.

you might have to trade Couterier, read or schenn to upgrade the defense in the offseason but right now its time to unload the vets.

Briere clears cap space(if he will go), fedotenko will help a playoff team and I think Coburn and Meszaros should be dealt.

I think Coburn and a pick could get JBo.
- bhigh21

but 7th in both PP... percentage.
- Feanor

Proof that stats don't tell the whole picture. Their PP goals are largely meaningless (look at their record for proof of that) and it absolutely sucks when they need it to be effective, such as in close games.

[quote=strongsupporter]
I'd keep Coburn.

We have an Atlantic Divison and Eastern Conference Championship! Memories.
- NickTheKid87

lol.. seriously though..

If we had Carlson on this team right now.. we would be in much better shape.

Bryz and Briere for Weber and Rinne (when Weber is available for trade). Book it.
- NickTheKid87

You need rehab son

Here is the thing MJL. I couldn't post last night as I'm on the West Coast and the discussion had passed by the Time I read it. I fundamentally agree with your position though that you make deals with a larger strategy in mind, not just to trade someone because you can get something.

So yes, Coots has a higher upside than Laughton, though I don't personally think that is as high as you, Bill, and others. But I've always maintained that position, it hasn't changed either way this year. But we both agree he has a high ceiling and hence trade value.

But the larger strategy says long term they have four centers, excluding Briere but including Laughton for three spots since all of them rate higher than 4th center. G is a lock, and Schenn's skill set is different than Laughton or Coots. I think he has highest offensice upside. Laughton has less offennsive upside so he is your three on a checking line. Either Schenn or Coots is your 2. Coots has more value so you trade him in my book.

So it is not coots > Laughton, it is Coots = Laughton + the asset they get for Coots
- TheGreat28

That's twisted logic. Why does Couturier have more value? Because he could turn out to be the better player? In today's NHL, you need 3 good lines that can play both ways and score. You don't trade a player like Couturier who could be that player that is a 2 way force at the Center position because he has more value. That type of player is almost as hard to get as a top defenseman. Where would the Bruins be with Patrice Bergeron?
Laughton migh be a nice player, but he doesn't have the upside that Couturier has

So yes, Coots has a higher upside than Laughton, though I don't personally think that is as high as you, Bill, and others. But I've always maintained that position, it hasn't changed either way this year. But we both agree he has a high ceiling and hence trade value.
- TheGreat28

This is more or less nitpicking but Couturier's upside isn't really subjective. What is is whether or not you think he'll reach it.

Couturier has the potential to be a 60+ point, Selke candidate. Will he reach that? Time will tell but for now we can either believe he will or he won't.

you might have to trade Couterier, read or schenn to upgrade the defense in the offseason but right now its time to unload the vets.

Briere clears cap space(if he will go), fedotenko will help a playoff team and I think Coburn and Meszaros should be dealt.

I think Coburn and a pick could get JBo.
- bhigh21

What do you think that JBo brings based on his history?

You need rehab son

- BiggE

You're right. I forgot to add 3 1sts from Nashville.

The current problem with this team isn't chemistry. Its the way they play, and it starts with team defense. That's why they have trouble scoring goals.
- MJL

Well, I guess I started that whole debate again. It's been overdue

I personally think this is an aspect of chemistry...trusting where your line mates are, each knowing his role, pushing each man forward, having a balance of defensive minded ness and scoring, etc.

Otherwise we'll just disagree and I'll wait for Bill to more eloquently write it later

Bill i feel like they can get a monster return if they trade a guy named giroux...LOL

you might have to trade Couterier, read or schenn to upgrade the defense in the offseason but right now its time to unload the vets.

Briere clears cap space(if he will go), fedotenko will help a playoff team and I think Coburn and Meszaros should be dealt.

I think Coburn and a pick could get JBo.
- bhigh21

I would be shocked if we got Jbo for that cheap.

I'd unload Briere, Timonen (only if we get a lot for him), Meszaros (probably buy out), Fedotenko. Stock pile picks and see who gets bought out on other teams.

I wasn't suggesting Bryz is as good as either of those guys. I was making a point that many people seem to think you can just buy the guy out and replace him with someone better. If there were someone better available, he'd be gone. The fact is that teams just don't let elite goaltenders go very often. Many fans expect every goalie to be some type of impenetrable wall. Every goalie gives up "weak" goals.

The fact is that Bryz has kept the Flyers in just about every game this season. The team's troubles start at the blueline and move out from there. Horrible team defense + anemic offense = bad situation.

Shore up the defense, and this is a very good team. Holmgren attempted to do this over the summer with the Suter/Shea situations. The problem is that he lost a defenseman (Carle) and a key veteran forward (Jagr) while waiting for each of those situations to play out. Add in the fact that Pronger is done, and, well, it's pretty obvious what his absence means.
- Rliable

The defence is in total need of a true # 1.....however Bryz does give up too many soft goals. You can see it in the players faces that their confidence just sinks when he lets in that soft goal.

FACT: Bill is right.

FACT: The Flyers are not winning the cup this season. So any panic moves they make will hurt them long term by giving up growing youth in exchange for an in vain push this year.

FACT: This organization, for once in it's life, needs to stick to a plan, and make appropriate changes in the off-season, that will not negatively affect the young nucleus of this offense.

FACT: "Based on message board, Twitter and radio show fodder, it is crystal clear that a big segment of the Flyers fan base doesn't get the concept that: " - Most people on message boards and social networking sites don't understand much at all about building and growing a team, and are pissed when the GM doesn't land every all-star for a steal. I get so sick of hearing the Flyers being thrown in every time a player is rumored to be "available" for trade. Time to wake up to reality.
- WarriorHockey21

FACT: Bears eat beets...

I'd keep Coburn.
- strongsupporter

The Flyers have 3 defenseman that basically play the same game. Schenn, Grossmann and Coburn are all stay at home guys (obviously each has their own strengths and weaknesses) so moving one for a puck-mover doesn't seem like a terrible idea. I'd prefer to move Coburn because I feel like he could get the best return.

FACT: Bears eat beets...
- tk71

Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

Well, I guess I started that whole debate again. It's been overdue

I personally think this is an aspect of chemistry...trusting where your line mates are, each knowing his role, pushing each man forward, having a balance of defensive minded ness and scoring, etc.

Otherwise we'll just disagree and I'll wait for Bill to more eloquently write it later
- TheGreat28

You just echoed my post. It's about how they play. Impossible to develop chemistry if you don't play the right way.

I'd keep Coburn.
- strongsupporter

Sorry, and I have been a supporter of him over the years, but he will never be the d-man we all hope he will be. He isnt 23.. He isnt gonna be a 30 point d-man... he isnt gonna be a PP d-man. He is a good (at best) mobile defensive d-man who can play 20 minutes a night and rarely misses a game.

I would be shocked if we got Jbo for that cheap.

I'd unload Briere, Timonen (only if we get a lot for him), Meszaros (probably buy out), Fedotenko. Stock pile picks and see who gets bought out on other teams.
- flyersfan51

Im totally baffled here.

i disagree with keeping some of the vets....Briere is just not worth it anymore...

lol.. seriously though..

If we had Carlson on this team right now.. we would be in much better shape.
- jak521

If everything was the same, just adding Carlson, sure. But that draft was in 2009 so everything would be different. Maybe we never get Pronger, Bryzgalov, trade Richards and Carter. Maybe Carlson gets dealt. Impossible to say.

Sorry, and I have been a supporter of him over the years, but he will never be the d-man we all hope he will be. He isnt 23.. He isnt gonna be a 30 point d-man... he isnt gonna be a PP d-man. He is a good (at best) mobile defensive d-man who can play 20 minutes a night and rarely misses a game.
- jak521

Coburn would be a great 2nd pairing guy but he can't be a #1 or #2. I think that's part of the reason he is struggling. They are asking too much of him.