Sharks / Ducks shootout coming.

Sharks look to remain undefeated...

I do understand that. Thats why ive said many times they have a lot of work to do. They can still make shrewd trades and continue drafting. They also have a young team with upside. Kessel, at 25, is one of them.
- systemtool

Something they have always sucked at. I'm sure some miracle will somehow change that.

Just because you call them center pieces, it doesnt mean Nonis agrees. They just happen to be the teams best players at the moment, but there is nothing that says the team wont try to add better, more well rounded leaders if given the chance.

Nonis does agree because he's shown it with his actions. When you keep a guy like Lupul, give him a long term contract, play him on the 1st line with Kessel, you are saying that's one of the main pieces. It's not going to be anybody else because there aren't any other better players. And most teams are build around their best players. You don't build a team around 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners.

The initial discussion was about the problem of Phil walking for nothing or having to overpay for him to stay.

Both VERY REAL possibilities. Both VERY BIG problems.
- As_I_See_It

You know what else is a VERY REAL possibility?

Him being traded when its known he will walk, and him being signed without paying him 7.5+ million.

Alright boys im outta here got School in the am and boy its gonna be a doozy 6 hours of accounting woopy!!! Have a good night boys.
- LEAFSfan28191

cheers

The benefits of trading Kessel, Lupul and Phaneuf include; being able to tank which means having a great shot at drafting a legitimate franchise player, getting some high end prospects and multiple picks to add to the mixture, it allows the Leafs to focus on rebuilding rather than making playoff pushes and it saves the Leafs a lot of cap space.
- Two_For_Truth

intentionally building a team to lose is NOT SPORTS. You always look for ways to improve your team but you never tank. i would not cheer for a gutless team that does that.

Something they have always sucked at. I'm sure some miracle will somehow change that.



Nonis does agree because he's shown it with his actions. When you keep a guy like Lupul, give him a long term contract, play him on the 1st line with Kessel, you are saying that's one of the main pieces. It's not going to be anybody else because there aren't any other better players. And most teams are build around their best players. You don't build a team around 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners.
- Two_For_Truth

Who is "they"?

The GM thats been on the job less than a month?

Signing those guys just means they are the main pieces on the team now. It does not, in any way shape or form say that you dont think you can find better and arent trying to find better. Come on man...

The initial discussion was about the problem of Phil walking for nothing or having to overpay for him to stay.

Both VERY REAL possibilities. Both VERY BIG problems.
- As_I_See_It

There is practically zero risk of Kessel walking for nothing, and the new rules on contract extensions reduce the likelihood of overpaying to stay, as the 2 more guaranteed years on the contract allows for less money per year and still more guaranteed money overall.

You know what else is a VERY REAL possibility?

Him being traded when its known he will walk, and him being signed without paying him 7.5+ million.
- systemtool

You don't say!

This is a site where discussions takes place, right?

So why not discuss within the confines of something that might actually happen?

You're on here every day and say the same thing every day.
- Big_Lightnin

Why not discuss what should happen?

GIVEN that they are NOT trading Kessel, Lupul, or Phaneuf, what moves do you think they should do?

give that a try, just once.

Trade for everyone and sign everyone.

There is practically zero risk of Kessel walking for nothing, and the new rules on contract extensions reduce the likelihood of overpaying to stay, as the 2 more guaranteed years on the contract allows for less money per year and still more guaranteed money overall.
- Big_Lightnin

I would try to trade Kessel and get the big body up front. Doesn't have to be centre. Just has to go to the net. Another RW, then.

You don't say!

This is a site where discussions takes place, right?
- As_I_See_It

Yet its taboo to suggest Kessel wont walk for nothing, or be demanding 7.5+ million.

Interesting.

There is practically zero risk of Kessel walking for nothing, and the new rules on contract extensions reduce the likelihood of overpaying to stay, as the 2 more guaranteed years on the contract allows for less money per year and still more guaranteed money overall.
- Big_Lightnin

7 for UFAs

8 for retention

1 year

intentionally building a team to lose is NOT SPORTS. You always look for ways to improve your team but you never tank. i would not cheer for a gutless team that does that.
- twiztedmike

Yeah because a noble, losing team is awesome.

I'm sure you would never cheer for the Leafs had they tanked the last five years and looked like the Oilers right now.

7 for UFAs

8 for retention

1 year
- As_I_See_It

RFA's is 2 years?

hmm, no that wouldn't make sense. Was it initially 2 years being discussed and changed?

I would try to trade Kessel and get the big body up front. Doesn't have to be centre. Just has to go to the net. Another RW, then.
- twiztedmike

Lupul does that, unfortunately hes out though.

Yeah because a noble, losing team is awesome.

I'm sure you would never cheer for the Leafs had they tanked the last five years and looked like the Oilers right now.
- Two_For_Truth

Why not just cheer for the Oilers then? Why cheer for a team to be like the Oilers when the Oilers are right there for anyone to cheer?

If its all negative, why obsess? Just buy an Eberle jersey and stop being miserable.

Yet its taboo to suggest Kessel wont walk for nothing, or be demanding 7.5+ million.

Interesting.
- systemtool

"Taboo?" Clearly not, because we're discussing the issue(s).

We just disagree and I see the issue as a whole as a bigger problem than you do.

Why not discuss what should happen?
- Two_For_Truth

because it's pointless - you know it isn't going to. Or do you just enjoy banging your head against the wall?

Trade for everyone and sign everyone.

same amount of useful insight as you normally offer

Who is "they"?

The GM thats been on the job less than a month?

Signing those guys just means they are the main pieces on the team now. It does not, in any way shape or form say that you dont think you can find better and arent trying to find better. Come on man...
- systemtool

Yes, the GM, Dave Nonis. His core guys are obvious. That's who he is building around. They can try and find better all they want but they won't get it until they trade who they have now to get it. Nobody is going to give you Crosby for Kessel. But, if you give up Kessel for some top prospects and picks, maybe, you tank hard enough to find the next superstar. That's the reality of their situation. By keeping Kessel, they're pretty much guaranteeing that he is the best player they are going to have. Hence why it's obvious that they're building around him. It's foolish but it's what they're going to end up doing.

Unless of course they pull a miracle out of their ass and start drafting superstars in unconventional places, something that not only has Nonis never done but the Leafs have never done as a franchise.

"Taboo?" Clearly not, because we're discussing the issue(s).

We just disagree and I see the issue as a whole as a bigger problem than you do.
- As_I_See_It

Well, I guess if you want to see the grass as orange, who am i to tell you it's green. Carry on...7.5+ and walking.

Youth that isn't good enough to build a winner around.



Not tanking is avoiding what it takes to get this team the players you yourself said they need. Just because they aren't selling the future doesn't mean they are building the team with the right guys. Big difference that you're having a hard time understanding.
- Two_For_Truth

Detroit didn't tank, yet remained an Elite franchise until Lidstrom retired. And yes, they had Elite talent drafted throughout the years. I think the motto you've bought into is shameless.

Yes, "tanking" gets you the opportunity to draft high at the expense of a good product. And I can see at least 3 teams that have yet to even really rebuild properly using the method you describe. How long will the Islanders draft in the Top 5 til they make playoffs? How about Columbus who've been to the playoffs once in their entire existence? How about a team like Edmonton after drafting 3 years in a row first overall? How many more Top 10 picks does it take to build a team?

You don't trade all the best players for a bunch of Prospects and throw them on the roster. That more or less ruins more prospects than it helps. You keep the talented Vets, the Mentor types, the swagger types. Clearly this team isn't getting any better soon, so maybe (just maybe) we can have both. I see a Top 10 Draft list full of guys we'd desperately use. We don't necessarily need to draft 1st overall every year. Detroit, Phily, San Jose, Vancouver and so on managed to build up a talent pool through smart drafting, key free agent signings, good trades and general emphasis on developing all players new and old.

You don't just sell the best parts of the team and hope we'll do better in 5 years. You can continue developing guys like Kadri and Frattin, and continue drafting and developing guys like Rielly, Biggs, and Finn. We could easily come in 9th or 15th in the East, the team is capable of doing either and tbh, so long as the organization drafts well doesn't really matter where you finish so long as the team begins to get better, learn how to win, get some playoff experience here and there and continue developing. The odds we draft Crosby by tanking in the next 5 years is pretty low.

RFA's is 2 years?
- Big_Lightnin

I think that falls under retention, 8 years.

Toronto could offer Kessel 8 years because he is Leafs property and they are retaining him. Every other team could other offer him 7.

Why not just cheer for the Oilers then? Why cheer for a team to be like the Oilers when the Oilers are right there for anyone to cheer?

If its all negative, why obsess? Just buy an Eberle jersey and stop being miserable.
- systemtool

Because there's absolutely no connection to the Oilers or the city of Edmonton?

The Oilers are worth envying because they've make the necessary sacrifice to give their fans a decade or more of spectacular hockey and a damn good chance at winning the Cup, something the Leafs should wake up and do.

Yes, the GM, Dave Nonis. His core guys are obvious. That's who he is building around. They can try and find better all they want but they won't get it until they trade who they have now to get it. Nobody is going to give you Crosby for Kessel. But, if you give up Kessel for some top prospects and picks, maybe, you tank hard enough to find the next superstar. That's the reality of their situation. By keeping Kessel, they're pretty much guaranteeing that he is the best player they are going to have. Hence why it's obvious that they're building around him. It's foolish but it's what they're going to end up doing.

Unless of course they pull a miracle out of their ass and start drafting superstars in unconventional places, something that not only has Nonis never done but the Leafs have never done as a franchise.
- Two_For_Truth

They are building with Kessel, not around Kessel.

Nonis just got the job. Lets be patient. Lets not pin the failures of past GMs on him.

Detroit didn't tank, yet remained an Elite franchise until Lidstrom retired. And yes, they had Elite talent drafted throughout the years. I think the motto you've bought into is shameless.

.
- Viktory

oh hell not this again...