And Kessel is not that man. Not even remotely (not saying you think he is, just stating my view).
- Conquest

Agreed. Kessel isn't that guy at all. But if the Leafs trade him now, they can give themselves the chance to get what they really need.

Cars are not investments, especially new ones. Horrid example. Building something means building something. That something depends on what you want to build, and since the discussion is about building a winner, you shouldnt need to have common sense explained to you.
- systemtool

That's not a horrid example, you invest in a car for it's longevity. You don't just toss around money, are you 17 or something? Exactly, building something means something, anything. It doesn't always turn out good. The discussion wasn't about building a winner, it was about building around a core, which doesn't always work but is the most sensible option. If you can't have a civil conversation, then you need to take a break from these boards that you live on.

Championship teams have a collection of really, really good guys? Thanks, tips.

You seem to be getting confused and missing the point here. Most championship teams over the course of history have had at least one guy that the team is built around whether you want to believe it or not.
- Two_For_Truth

That does not mean the Leafs are building around Kessel, and not all teams are built around a single player.

And Kessel is not that man. Not even remotely (not saying you think he is, just stating my view).
- Conquest

He's right that there is a 'spotlight' player in those instances, but there were two to four guys on all of those teams that you could rely on consistently. T4T always simplifies his theories to make it easier to argue.

sounds like a nice pre game meal followed by 8 rum and cokes and a few L papes
- big_dion

haha yeah.. but i have been avoiding the drink this week.. got studio starting tonight.. and i've been on the edge of a flu.. so i've behaved and its been working out for me.

That's what CLS got from LA for Carter (J. Johnson and a 1st).

What did the Flyers get from CLS again? Voracek and a pick?
- 1979AD

A pick that turned into Couturier. Not bad huh?

That does not mean the Leafs are building around Kessel, and not all teams are built around a single player.
- systemtool

kessel is a piece

thats it.

hes not a guy to build a team around, but without a guy like kessel on your team (natural sniper) you wont win the cup.

thats how it is.

If we wanted to trade kessel this is the time, lupul is gone, playoffs wont happen anyway, and we've sucked so long what's a half season to us. trade him and draft a star we have a lot of good prospects that will fill the roster out in the next couple of years.
- ky678468

i like your avatar, we should get their two best players

Kevin McGran ‏@kevin_mcgran

Leafs send Gardiner to Marlies
- faceto27

Again??

Agreed. Kessel isn't that guy at all. But if the Leafs trade him now, they can give themselves the chance to get what they really need.
- Two_For_Truth

Thank you, my point exactly; he is not Toews, he is great at what he does, which is pure offense. We need someone that has a balance of offense and defensive reliability. It was a mistake to get him in the first place but getting what we can now will help this team in the long run. But of course, we need the first round of the playoffs immediately and must disregard the future, right?

haha yeah.. but i have been avoiding the drink this week.. got studio starting tonight.. and i've been on the edge of a flu.. so i've behaved and its been working out for me.
- Dozzer

stick the course, good man!

That does not mean the Leafs are building around Kessel, and not all teams are built around a single player.
- systemtool

When a player is the most talented player on the team and soon to be the highest paid guy on the team (if they keep him at his going rate), it's really hard to argue he's not the guy the team is trying to build around especially when they're resigning his linemates to long term deals.

That's not a horrid example, you invest in a car for it's longevity. You don't just toss around money, are you 17 or something? Exactly, building something means something, anything. It doesn't always turn out good. The discussion wasn't about building a winner, it was about building around a core, which doesn't always work but is the most sensible option. If you can't have a civil conversation, then you need to take a break from these boards that you live on.
- Conquest

WTF?

At no point was I uncivil, and its laughable you have to use an age insult then try to be the better man at the end. Im living in bed and on the couch, the results of surgery. But if its convenient and necessary for you to assume such things to insult me and glorify yourself, have at it. We're done here.

He's right that there is a 'spotlight' player in those instances, but there were two to four guys on all of those teams that you could rely on consistently. T4T always simplifies his theories to make it easier to argue.
- A_Tree

Whereas the Leafs don't have 2-4 and Kessel can barely considered 1 since he only has one element to his game, which is scoring goals. Why not use him to begin getting what we really need?

UG's argument is that the Leafs are lacking that one or two cornerstone players, that the Leafs would want to be Leafs for life (like Sundin) eg. paying them the max salary on an 18 year contract if that's what it takes. That gives you the solid core for the long term that you can bring in the other pieces on a revolving basis to complement said core and remain competitive for an extended period of time.

He's arguing that Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf aren't those guys, and the best (and virtually only way) of acquiring those guys is drafting 1-3. The only way to be able to draft 1-3 is to suck huge and pretenders like Kessel/Phaneuf prevent the team from doing that.

I don't necessarily agree with the argument, but you can't dispute that it's a valid strategy.

Again??
- A_Tree

let him get back up to game speed, looked off in his 2 games

When a player is the most talented player on the team and soon to be the highest paid guy on the team (if they keep him at his going rate), it's really hard to argue he's not the guy the team is trying to build around especially when they're resigning his linemates to long term deals.
- Two_For_Truth

Him being the most talented player is does not make him the player the team is building around. It just means they havent found that player and have a lot of work to do, but trading the best player you have who is 25 is not the solution.

A pick that turned into Couturier. Not bad huh?
- Two_For_Truth

Looks like a pretty sweet return.

Agreed. Kessel isn't that guy at all. But if the Leafs trade him now, they can give themselves the chance to get what they really need.
- Two_For_Truth

Without looking up who is home/away

Washington - Win
Washington - Lose
Montreal - OTL
Boston - Lose before the game starts
Carolina - Lose
Winnipeg - SOW

2-3-1

sounds about right for the leafs
- senstroll

Gonna say 1-4-1

UG's argument is that the Leafs are lacking that one or two cornerstone players, that the Leafs would want to be Leafs for life (like Sundin) eg. paying them the max salary on an 18 year contract if that's what it takes. That gives you the solid core for the long term that you can bring in the other pieces on a revolving basis to complement said core and remain competitive for an extended period of time.

He's arguing that Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf aren't those guys, and the best (and virtually only way) of acquiring those players is drafting 1-3. The only way to be able to draft 1-3 is to suck huge and pretenders like Kessel/Phaneuf prevent the team from doing that.

I don't necessarily agree with the argument, but you can't dispute that it's a valid strategy.
- 1979AD

Those guys have not prevented them from finishing in lottery range in their most current season, and the fact this team is so young and has upside, guys like Kadri and Frattin are doing as much, if not more, to land this team outside the bottom 3 picks.

Championship teams have a collection of really, really good guys? Thanks, tips.

You seem to be getting confused and missing the point here. Most championship teams over the course of history have had at least one guy that the team is built around whether you want to believe it or not.
- Two_For_Truth

Care to define this?

All championship teams over the course of history have had at least one guy who is really, really good.

What does "built around" mean?

Did the Red Wings put a picture of Yzerman up on a screen, and then tell all their scouts to start thinking about a 3rd line centre who they could get who would best mesh with Yzerman?

Was Lidstrom drafted in the fourth round specifically to compliment Yzmerman's characteristics?

The Red Wings had Yzerman. Then they added as many great players as they could, as often as they could.

That's what CLS got from LA for Carter (J. Johnson and a 1st).

What did the Flyers get from CLS again? Voracek and a pick?
- 1979AD

Columbus got Jack Johnson and the Kings 2013 1st

Flyers got Jakub Voracek and a first (Sean Couturier)- and 3rd 2011 (Nick Cousins)

- A_Tree

In fairness, he said 'chance' to get what they need. The sarcastic magic 8 ball has no place there.

Whereas the Leafs don't have 2-4 and Kessel can barely considered 1 since he only has one element to his game, which is scoring goals. Why not use him to begin getting what we really need?
- Conquest

One step forward, two steps back. Makes sense.