Here's another mirror for you.

Right, made up by the media.... Just like they met last night, but they didn't. Media fabrication.
- burn

oh christ we arent passed this yet?

you got one side saying one thing and another saying different.. welcome to modern day media.

still waiting for that quote btw.

Right back at ya.
- burn

This entire conversation has been predicated on your claim that:

- both sides haven't met BECAUSE OF the change in HRR language
- the NHL is now playing hardball because the threat of DOI is gone

You've paraded these statements around like fact. If you had simply clarified that this is just an opinion, you wouldn't be getting as much flack as you are.

its called bargaining burn

until a deal is signed EVERYTHING is up for debate and change.

its up to the NHLPA to so its own due diligence to make sure they are satisfied with everything before signing it.. not up to the NHL to hold their hand and point out every little tweak.. thats what Fehr is for
- Dozzer

Who said that?

You can't renegotiate something both agreed to months ago and both have been basing their negotiations/offers off of. That would just negate the last 3 months.

so how bout them blue jays?

Wouldn't it derail negotiations on the current deal, when it hasn't been touched in 2 month's? Now instead of focusing on the current offer, they need to redefine HRR.
- Leafland

They don't. It's off the table.

I think it's important not to lose site that this was originally reported as a misunderstanding from the NHL's perspective, and it was corrected.

The media is blowing it way out of proportion and getting people like burn too excited.

for sure.

i mean realistically the leafs dont need anyone in the bottom 6 for years to come, we have a ton of bottom 6 talent, and its young.

we need to add top 6 talent, hell, we have the money too.

2 goalies for 2.5 mil.
after this season we lose half our roster, and a few big ones too (connolly, lombardi).

i say we use our bottom 6 guys from marlies, etc.
and we use our $ to add getzlaf.

lupul-getzlaf-kessel
JVR-grabovski-kadri
frattin-bozak-kulemin
brown-mcclemment-komarov

thats a playoff team if the D and G hold up!
- Neiler

...since lupul is gone, might as well sign Perry .... it's just that easy.

Again....no signed deal, anything is fair game. The NHL is well within their right to change the definition of HRR.

Their motives can be vast and they're certainly unknown, but making the assumption that it has derailed negotiations is just asinine.
- Pen15

Pa took tons of flack for the rumoured changed. So that was all wrong, they are ok to change?

I don't see those that lambasted pa for that doing the same to the NHL. Double standard.

Glad you 2 aren't trying to get this deal done..
- bixll

I'd fleece him.

Again....no signed deal, anything is fair game. The NHL is well within their right to change the definition of HRR.

Their motives can be vast and they're certainly unknown, but making the assumption that it has derailed negotiations is just asinine.
- Pen15

That us true. Nothing agreed to until everything agreed to. However, in a set of negotiations where trust is at a premium, this move does not help. Fehr made a decision not to play the DOI card presumably to keep the momentum going. That was a mistake.

Who said that?

You can't renegotiate something both agreed to months ago and both have been basing their negotiations/offers off of. That would just negate the last 3 months.
- burn

wtf?!?!!?!?

burn have you lost your good sense?!?!?!

nothing is locked in until the new CBA is signed.. NOTHING

which means EVERYTHING is up for debate.

you most certainly can revisit anything.

like i said.. this isnt about right or wrong fair and unfair.. that doesnt exist here...its a labour negotiation.. and it IS up to each side to constantly review each others proposals.. and anyone getting upset or miffed about a change is a baby and doesnt belong in the conference room.

Who said that?

You can't renegotiate something both agreed to months ago and both have been basing their negotiations/offers off of. That would just negate the last 3 months.
- burn

And welcome to the collective bargaining process

not to mention the owners are within their right to change whatever they please til a deal is signed.. same with the union for that matter.

this isnt a first date, there is no inappropriate, its bargaining.

anyone who feels jilted or are upset needs to go and put their big boy pants on.
- Dozzer

I guess you told those that ripped the pa for their rumoured (falsely) change to hhr earlier this week they were wrong.

And welcome to the collective bargaining process
- Pen15

Of course you can do that just like you can file for DOI. Both come with a price

They don't. It's off the table.

I think it's important not to lose site that this was originally reported as a misunderstanding from the NHL's perspective, and it was corrected.

The media is blowing it way out of proportion and getting people like burn too excited.
- Pen15

Whoa, spoonfed media spin?

That us true. Nothing agreed to until everything agreed to. However, in a set of negotiations where trust is at a premium, this move does not help. Fehr made a decision not to play the DOI card presumably to keep the momentum going. That was a mistake.
- Canada Cup

Both sides have gone on record to say trust has nothing to do with these types of negotiations - I'll take their word over Shannon's anyday.

And imo - Fehr couldn't play the DOI card even if he wanted to. With federal negotiators in the room....what's he going to do? Pass a sheet to Bettman and say: "I know we've passed multiple packages at one another the past few days, and even though we are not at an impass ....we are disclaiming"

How do you think that would hold up in court?

I'd fleece him.
- Pen15

sure.... I wouldn't be to worried.

I guess you told those that ripped the pa for their rumoured (falsely) change to hhr earlier this week they were wrong.
- burn

first off i dont remember that.. secondly.. i would of argued the PA was well within their right to do so.

there is no right and wrong here.. why some people cant see that is beyond me.

yeah, but the money generated by MLB makes the NHL revenue look laughable

i mean the bottom teams are still paying out 55million in salaries

this is nowhere near the case for the NHL.. so you cant compare the two leagues.. they arent even close when it comes to money
- Dozzer

Money wise, the NHL is not even in the same league (no pun intended).
I wasnt comparing the two, he brought up baseball. I believe the bottom team is paying about 23 million or something like that.
They still are comparable though, bottom teams in MLB paying out 55 million and generated (receiving more revenue sharing) compare to NHL teams paying out 40 million and receiving less revenue sharing.
Now the discrepency between to the top and bottom paying teams in MLB is absolutely ridiculous.
But even then, the higher paying teams aren't the ones always winning.

wtf?!?!!?!?

burn have you lost your good sense?!?!?!

nothing is locked in until the new CBA is signed.. NOTHING

which means EVERYTHING is up for debate.

you most certainly can revisit anything.

like i said.. this isnt about right or wrong fair and unfair.. that doesnt exist here...its a labour negotiation.. and it IS up to each side to constantly review each others proposals.. and anyone getting upset or miffed about a change is a baby and doesnt belong in the conference room.
- Dozzer

This true but

I think the point Dozzer is that the PA and Fehr have been crucified on these boards for all kinds of negotiating tactics. The owners made a stupid and clumsy move and are getting called out on it.

Of course you can do that just like you can file for DOI. Both come with a price
- Canada Cup

And what price is that?

The NHL changed the language, and it hasn't derailed anything.

Franson + Kulemin 4 Eberele and im in
- Neiler

I love that.

Both sides have gone on record to say trust has nothing to do with these types of negotiations - I'll take their word over Shannon's anyday.

And imo - Fehr couldn't play the DOI card even if he wanted to. With federal negotiators in the room....what's he going to do? Pass a sheet to Bettman and say: "I know we've passed multiple packages at one another the past few days, and even though we are not at an impass ....we are disclaiming"

How do you think that would hold up in court?
- Pen15

I don't know how it would end up court. Odds are in owners favor BUT cost of them ever losing one of these is just way too high. That's what leads to settlements. Owners hate the risk

Whoa, spoonfed media spin?
- burn

It's what's on record from the party involved....not what John Shannon or Nick Kypreos, or Damion Cox decided to report and analyze/give their opinion on.

See the difference?

Every year there are a bunch of low revenue teams in top half of standings. It's certainly true that high revenue teams usually do well (will be nice to see Red Sox and Yankees be an exception to this rule this year).

My point is simply that there are other ways to get parity than by relying on current cap/floor used in NHL. Only thing this system guarantees is lock outs.
- Canada Cup

Well, like the NHL and PA, I think we mostly agree and we're now arguing about nickles and dimes - but, I do disagree. The hard cap and revenue sharing system in the NHL helps competitive balance. Without bigger tv revenue, like the NFL, I'm not sure a open or tax system would work nearly as well in the NHL - in terms of balance. The only low budget MLB team to win was Florida in 03' (Tampa got there in 08') otherwise the world series appearances have been dominated by big budget teams ...and will continue to unless things are changed.

As a Leaf fan I'm all for trying though.

I don't know how it would end up court. Odds are in owners favor BUT cost of them ever losing one of these is just way too high. That's what leads to settlements. Owners hate the risk
- Canada Cup

Agreed.

But the point still stands. I think everyone would agree that Fehr would have probably been committing suicide if he filed a DOI earlier this week.