Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 10:49 AM ET
He's basing it off a grudge he has from 2004. - Pen15
Not a grudge. Thats why my distain is split, unlike the pom pom pack here.
But its okay to base your emotions on your grudge of 2012 and ignoring the facts from the past and the same people who were around then that are doing the same things today.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Dec 28 @ 10:51 AM ET
They havent spoken in weeks, either side, until the last day or two. How can you not blame both sides? - systemtool
There was no discussion for weeks because the owners were waiting for the PA to make a proposal. What happened? The owners made a few more concessions.
You need to remember that this is a new collective bargaining agreement, what was in place before doesn't exist anymore.
Not a grudge. Thats why my distain is split, unlike the pom pom pack here.
But its okay to base your emotions on your grudge of 2012 and ignoring the facts from the past and the same people who were around then that are doing the same things today. - systemtool
I'm not ignoring the facts from the past. I just know better than to let past negotiations (which had their own set of circumstances) affect my view on current negotiations.
If you remove your 'distain' for one moment, and view this current lockout as it's own event, you'd have to bury your head in sand not to see that the owners have made far more concessions and shown far more effort to reaching a deal than the players.
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 10:53 AM ET
There was no discussion for weeks because the owners were waiting for the PA to make a proposal. What happened? The owners made a few more concessions.
You need to remember that this is a new collective bargaining agreement, what was in place before doesn't exist anymore. - PatC80
You also need to remember that the same leader is in place.
This is like saying a president shouldnt have to shoulder the blame from his first term, because he is on his second term.
I'm not ignoring the facts from the past. I just know better than to let past negotiations (which had their own set of circumstances) affect my view on current negotiations.
If you remove your 'distain' for one moment, and view this current lockout as it's own event, you'd have to bury your head in sand not to see that the owners have made far more concessions and shown far more effort to reaching a deal than the players. - Pen15
Again it all comes down to survival vs greed to me...
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 10:55 AM ET
I'm not ignoring the facts from the past. I just know better than to let past negotiations (which had their own set of circumstances) affect my view on current negotiations.
If you remove your 'distain' for one moment, and view this current lockout as it's own event, you'd have to bury your head in sand not to see that the owners have made far more concessions and shown far more effort to reaching a deal than the players. - Pen15
Why should I "ignore" the past CBA results of Bettman when looking at this one? You'd have to bury your head in the sand to not see the trend he has set.
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 10:56 AM ET
Completely different circumstances... Bettman didn't call for the lockout, the owners did. Bettman just represents the owners.
So, no it is not like saying "a president shouldnt have to shoulder the blame from his first term, because he is on his second term" - PatC80
Not all the owners are on the same page. And it very much is the same as the president shouldering the blame in his entire tenure, not just the more recent events. Because the events of yesterday define the events of today.
The President represents the people. The people vote him into power. Same thing big guy. He is the face of the negotiations, Bettman is.
Why should I "ignore" the past CBA results of Bettman when looking at this one? You'd have to bury your head in the sand to not see the trend he has set. - systemtool
Because the past CBA negotiations had their own dynamics, and their own identities. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
Location: 2024 Stanley Cup Champion, AZ Joined: 08.18.2010
Dec 28 @ 10:59 AM ET
Why should I "ignore" the past CBA results of Bettman when looking at this one? You'd have to bury your head in the sand to not see the trend he has set. - systemtool
last time was for a Hard Cap. Owners were not backing off that ever. Would have been 2 seasons lost if not for the player's revolt.
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 10:59 AM ET
Because the past CBA negotiations had their own dynamics, and their own identities. It's like comparing apples to oranges. - Pen15
We're talking about the two sides, not the actual contents of the CBA. In other words, the two sides ability to maturely and effectively negotiate a CBA.
Stopping running around the produce aisles, focus.
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 28 @ 11:00 AM ET
last time was for a Hard Cap. Owners were not backing off that ever. Would have been 2 seasons lost if not for the player's revolt. - Feeling_Glucky
Its about the leadership, and the two sides handling the negotiations. You could be negotiating the dessert tray, or the colour the table cloth should be. Point is, if you have two douchebags on both sides, nothing is going to get done.
