I would love to see a 100 with and 80 opt out...
- Flyfreaky

As a fan of the most wealthy team in the NHL I say (frank) the teams without any money and I'm really upset they can't afford the buyout of a poopty contract. Those non wealthy teams are the reason us fans of real teams had to wait till the new year to watch hockey....basically large middle finger tothose parasite clubs who should be removed from the league anyway.
- tmlfan17

Us fans of the crappy teams(like myself)probably won't be watching hockey at all this year along with you elitist. BTW, congrats on the post of the day. This was a joke right?

I'll be stunned if Fehr counters with anything the league might accept... Or at least can work with. Fehr does not care about this season.

Or, the players tell to make a reasonable counter. They will lose everyone if they don't.

I'll be stunned if Fehr counters with anything the league might accept... Or at least can work with. Fehr does not care about this season.

Or, the players tell to make a reasonable counter. They will lose everyone if they don't.
- seanjohn667

At this point, I really have no idea what the PA will counter on?

I hope Fehr pulls out some other stupid sh!t.
- Aetherial

Why? Just to see how stupid he can be?

Errrrr. So I image searched "juggalo" and this is what came up with. Not cool guys.

Errrrr. So I image searched "juggalo" and this is what came up with. Not cool guys.


- Senators2112

- Cptmjl

I "kinda" want to touch them though.

Erp!

OK well I will be the first to admit I am not a labor lawyer, and almost nobody will claim to know WTF would happen if the union really does decertify and pursue individual lawsuits against the league...

What I am getting at is, and I've supported the owners 100% through all of this, is that unless they just madly love hockey so damn much (or owner mandated to save the season) that they are giving and giving and giving in these proposals, then I try and look a little deeper to understand their strategy in all this if poop hits the fan and this all falls apart.

Say what you will about the ownership side of the game, but very few would call them stupid. Something is up.
- Senators2112

Regarding the giving and giving part, my only opinion on that is they are giving from what was an unreasonable position to begin with (in regards to the opening 43% offer). So yes they are giving, but we all know (and for that matter even Bettman knew) that the first offer was a load of horsepoop wrapped in shiny paper.

Personally I'm on the equal blame bandwagon. I'm just tired of Bettman and the owners getting a free ride during this lockout and how it has been handled. From the opening offer to the constant PR bullpoop to the flat out lies both sides have put greed and personal wars in front of the game and the fans yet many point at Fehr like he is the only culprit.

Decertification is and was a leverage sham. If it ever got that far I don't know what would happen either but if I had to venture a guess the end result would be the NHL folding and a new hockey league being formed. I have nothing to back that up except you could pretty much kiss the next 2 seasons bye and with those 2 seasons you can take it to the bank some teams would fold. And once teams start folding, the league itself wouldn't be far behind

No, because it is a lockout the CBA is a measuring point as to what the players what. If it were a strike the CBA is a measuring point as to what the owners want and concessions are made to reach an agreement, like it or not. Strikes and lockouts are dirty, dirty tactics to get more of what you want.


- mrhattrick27

I disagree. It is a measuring stick for the issues for both sides. And for all the issues involved. Totally agree that a lockout is a dirty tactic to get you want. Same as a DOI.

The NHLPA cannot file a DOI, only the leadership of the NHLPA can, as in D. Fehr and company. That does not require a vote, just deFuhr's signature, and the leaders just walk away. The NHLPA would have to go through a 2 tiered voting process to disband, first stage a petition requiring 30% MEMBERSHIP, second would be a vote to disband, requiring 50%. This disbanding process requires 4 - six weeks, or more, too much time to be a bargaining tactic for this year.

DOI takes a signature, can happen in time to be used as a bargaining tactic.
- gstrandberg

Correct on who files the DOI. Thanks for the correction.

I meant 8 year CBA length
- Feeling_Glucky

ohhh

Regarding the giving and giving part, my only opinion on that is they are giving from what was an unreasonable position to begin with (in regards to the opening 43% offer). So yes they are giving, but we all know (and for that matter even Bettman knew) that the first offer was a load of horsepoop wrapped in shiny paper.

Personally I'm on the equal blame bandwagon. I'm just tired of Bettman and the owners getting a free ride during this lockout and how it has been handled. From the opening offer to the constant PR bullpoop to the flat out lies both sides have put greed and personal wars in front of the game and the fans yet many point at Fehr like he is the only culprit.

Decertification is and was a leverage sham. If it ever got that far I don't know what would happen either but if I had to venture a guess the end result would be the NHL folding and a new hockey league being formed. I have nothing to back that up except you could pretty much kiss the next 2 seasons bye and with those 2 seasons you can take it to the bank some teams would fold. And once teams start folding, the league itself wouldn't be far behind
- uf1910

Don't get me wrong, it takes two to tango. I'm willing to give equal blame to the owners as well, I'm just pissed off that all of these players have been going on twitter and TSN and spewing their mouths off like their 13 year old girls.

Saying "the owners locked us out; this isn't a strike. We could be playing" every single interview, when any smart person knows that if the owners let them play under the old CBA while negotiating that the players would have all the leverage in the world, and would probably strike before the playoffs. Saying the owners won't negotiate, when all the players do is pick in choose out of their COMPLETE proposals (which the players haven't even presented yet).

To me anyway, it's kind of known that the owners are semi "the bad guy". What pisses me off the most is that the players are trying to play innocent and come off as "the good guys" when they're clearly not. They're just as a greedy, just as manipulative, and in this case, just as much of a hinderence (or more so) to this deal getting done.

Opinions are like anus's, we all have one. You surpass opinion and stand on your soap box and preach that yours is the only opinion, and the world is wrong if we don't see it through your rose colored, cool aid drinking NHLPA way.
I still say you're Larry Brooks in disguise.
- gstrandberg

Who I've been accused of being so far.

Eklund
Various NHL players including Paul Bissonette.
Allan Walsh
And now Larry Brooks

What I want to know is none of those people are afraid to speak their minds. Why would they come on a website like this and not use their real name?

LOL!

The funny thing is that the owners have Fehr believing that he is "winning" these negotiations by getting the owners to give more and more ground on the side issues like contract length.

I think that the owners only ever really cared about one thing: getting to 50/50. They had to make up other issues that they didn't really care about like contract length and year-to-year % variance so that the NHLPA would trade off the 50/50 in exchange for winning the small battles.

Fehr can wait it out until January if he wants. The NHL still got 50/50 which was all they really wanted and for which they have been willing to sacrifice half a season from the beginning.
- Coburns_Nose

The 50/50 and Make Whole issues was agreed upon about 2 weeks ago. So why did the NHL wait that time period then, to make this offer. If 50/50 is all they cared about?

There is a difference - the owners have made a ton of offers, and Fehr has made hardly any. It is pretty clear that his tactic is to sit back and not sign ANY deal until the beginning of January.
- niedermayer27

Not true. What is true is that many of the NHL supporters just refuse to acknowledge what offers the NHLPA has made

Who I've been accused of being so far.

Eklund
Various NHL players including Paul Bissonette.
Allan Walsh
And now Larry Brooks

What I want to know is none of those people are afraid to speak their minds. Why would they come on a website like this and not use their real name?
- MJL

I accuse you of being my hero

I "kinda" want to touch them though.

Erp!
- Senators2112

That makes one of us.

Not true. What is true is that many of the NHL supporters just refuse to acknowledge what offers the NHLPA has made
- MJL

Which is why I said "hardly any". Number of full offers made by the union? You could count on one finger.

Who I've been accused of being so far.

EklundVarious NHL players including Paul Bissonette.
Allan Walsh
And now Larry Brooks

What I want to know is none of those people are afraid to speak their minds. Why would they come on a website like this and not use their real name?
- MJL

Wow, thats hitting below the belt.

As a fan of the most wealthy team in the NHL I say (frank) the teams without any money and I'm really upset they can't afford the buyout of a poopty contract. Those non wealthy teams are the reason us fans of real teams had to wait till the new year to watch hockey....basically large middle finger tothose parasite clubs who should be removed from the league anyway.
- tmlfan17

How does your team become a "real team"? By missing the playoffs for a decade?

Which is why I said "hardly any". Number of full offers made by the union? You could count on one finger.
- niedermayer27

The NHLPA's approach early in the Negotiations, was that they wanted to negotiate the issues separately, then tie them together later on. Why I don't know but that was their approach. That frustrated the NHL, and they wanted to dictate how the negotiations went. So the NHLPA has made plenty of proposals on the issues. And really the only full offer that really matters is the one agreed to in the end. Hopefully that is coming soon.

How does your team become a "real team"? By missing the playoffs for a decade?
- niedermayer27

Don't get me wrong, it takes two to tango. I'm willing to give equal blame to the owners as well, I'm just pissed off that all of these players have been going on twitter and TSN and spewing their mouths off like their 13 year old girls.

Saying "the owners locked us out; this isn't a strike. We could be playing" every single interview, when any smart person knows that if the owners let them play under the old CBA while negotiating that the players would have all the leverage in the world, and would probably strike before the playoffs. Saying the owners won't negotiate, when all the players do is pick in choose out of their COMPLETE proposals (which the players haven't even presented yet).

To me anyway, it's kind of known that the owners are semi "the bad guy". What pisses me off the most is that the players are trying to play innocent and come off as "the good guys" when they're clearly not. They're just as a greedy, just as manipulative, and in this case, just as much of a hinderence (or more so) to this deal getting done.
- Saundies

The constant PR crap and trying to win in the public perception is what really pissed me off from the beginning. Neither side could truly win in that regard unless they played hockey.

The NHLPA's approach early in the Negotiations, was that they wanted to negotiate the issues separately, then tie them together later on. Why I don't know but that was their approach. That frustrated the NHL, and they wanted to dictate how the negotiations went. So the NHLPA has made plenty of proposals on the issues. And really the only full offer that really matters is the one agreed to in the end. Hopefully that is coming soon.
- MJL

One thing we can agree on.