What the situation was under the last CBA is the measuring point of what a concession is and to whom. Again, there is a big difference between compromising and making an actual concession.
- MJL

No, because it is a lockout the CBA is a measuring point as to what the players what. If it were a strike the CBA is a measuring point as to what the owners want and concessions are made to reach an agreement, like it or not. Strikes and lockouts are dirty, dirty tactics to get more of what you want.

During a strike, owners try to give the employees more of what they want (concessions) and/or wait it out till the employees must go back to work for them. Employees don't give concessions here based on the fact it's a strike. Their goal is to get as many concessions from the management as possible while not sacrificing too many paychecks. They are in power here, it is a dirty tactic to increase pay and benefits.

During a lockout, employees must give concessions to the owners in order to reach an agreement or employees can say "we are too necessary to you, we will wait it out till you need us back." Owners are saying we do not like the current agreement, and the employees must limit the damage. Again, dirty tactic.

It is the same thing, same type of tactice, but it is up to one side to give up concessions OR wait out the other side.

For sport fans, think of a player holding out. He wants more money. Its up to the team to pay him more, and limit by how much they pay him more, or wait him out and they go from there. Thats what a lockout is. Except player and management are switched.

Uh, yeah, it will cost another month's salary for the PA to get an extra year added on to contracts affecting 10% of the PA.

Winning.
- Aetherial

If they lose the season.
So far, I think both parties have done a traffic job to get the best deal that they can for their side. D day is in 9-10days. There is a deal there to be made.

Hopefully not just league propaganda... hoping that this dog poop is settled sooner than later regardless of the result. And to be honest, I rather do hope the players get (frank)ed and the entire season is lost.

@RenLavoieRDS NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancel.

I have a great anaology, its liek in monopoly buying the last Orange piece for $200 and your opponent needs it to complete a monoply and they say I'll give you $300 and you say I want $1000. If they say $400 and you say $800. Can they turn around and say "Wel you paid $200 previously, so going from $200 to $300 is already a concession" No it really isn't.

The fact it is a lockout is key. It means players are happy with the deal, that is their negotiating jumping point. The NHL wasn't happy and needs to negotiate them down to somethign else, they start off low to meet in the middle whilst both conceed to get there.

If this was a strike, it's flipped. Owners jumping point is the deal they have in place. Players want more and set a real high price. The two make concessions to meet in the middle until they have a deal.

If the last CBA was fair to both sides, there'd be no lockout.
- mrhattrick27

bingo, which is why the NHL rolls out a BS offer of 43% of rev if players are at 57%

If they lose the season.
So far, I think both parties have done a traffic job to get the best deal that they can for their side. D day is in 9-10days. There is a deal there to be made.
- HipHopisDead

I was comparing the most recent NHL offer to the one from like 3 weeks ago... I see movement by the NHL, but nothing that would justify losing yet another month.

Not to mention that if the players took the offer in October and did not demand 300 million make whole, it is entirely reasonable to assume ownership would have been glad to give them the contracting terms they are being offered now. The owners would have taken those terms and signed as fast as their little fingers could write.The owners made it perfectly clear in October they were willing to negotiate off of their offer.

We would have had a full season, albeit compressed a bit. The players would have made MUCH more money. The owners would have made more. The league would not be nearly as damaged (which affects players AND owners).

So... Fehr won them 300 million!! Lost them 900 million and counting. Lost BOTH parties in the long run.

So yeah, rock on Fehr. Nice work.

Uh, yeah, it will cost another month's salary for the PA to get an extra year added on to contracts affecting 10% of the PA.

Winning.
- Aetherial

Yep. Fehr can technically say he was right, the deal did indeed get better. What he will leave out is that it cost the NHLPA 10s of millions more to get that extra year which only affects around 80 players of a 700+ member union.

Basically the NHL slow played their "concessions" during this whole lockout while making the NHLPA lose almost a billion dollars in unrecoverable revenue fighting for them.

I was comparing the most recent NHL offer to the one from like 3 weeks ago... I see movement by the NHL, but nothing that would justify losing yet another month.

Not to mention that if the players took the offer in October and did not demand 300 million make whole, it is entirely reasonable to assume ownership would have been glad to give them the contracting terms they are being offered now. The owners would have taken those terms and signed as fast as their little fingers could type.The owners made it perfectly clear in October they were willing to negotiate off of their offer.

We would have had a full season, albeit compressed a bit. The players would have made MUCH more money. The owners would have made more. The league would not be nearly as damaged (which affects players AND owners).

So... Fehr won them 300 million!! Lost them 900 million and counting. Lost BOTH parties in the long run.

So yeah, rock on Fehr. Nice work.
- Aetherial

No, because it is a lockout the CBA is a measuring point as to what the players what. If it were a strike the CBA is a measuring point as to what the owners want and concessions are made to reach an agreement, like it or not. Strikes and lockouts are dirty, dirty tactics to get more of what you want.

During a strike, owners try to give the employees more of what they want (concessions) and/or wait it out till the employees must go back to work for them. Employees don't give concessions here based on the fact it's a strike. Their goal is to get as many concessions from the management as possible while not sacrificing too many paychecks. They are in power here, it is a dirty tactic to increase pay and benefits.

During a lockout, employees must give concessions to the owners in order to reach an agreement or employees can say "we are too necessary to you, we will wait it out till you need us back." Owners are saying we do not like the current agreement, and the employees must limit the damage. Again, dirty tactic.

It is the same thing, same type of tactice, but it is up to one side to give up concessions OR wait out the other side.

For sport fans, think of a player holding out. He wants more money. Its up to the team to pay him more, and limit by how much they pay him more, or wait him out and they go from there. Thats what a lockout is. Except player and management are switched.
- mrhattrick27

This is too easy to understand. Please cloud your explanation with some incorrect, irrelevant minutiae so that he can respond.

Yep. Fehr can technically say he was right, the deal did indeed get better. What he will leave out is that it cost the NHLPA 10s of millions more to get that extra year which only affects around 80 players of a 700+ member union.

Basically the NHL slow played their "concessions" during this whole lockout while making the NHLPA lose almost a billion dollars in unrecoverable revenue fighting for them.
- Gunner Staal

Exactly, it wasn't worth it for the PA. They could have done this in Novemeber. But both sides are to blame. And both sides lost money.

Exactly, it wasn't worth it for the PA. They could have done this in Novemeber. But both sides are to blame. And both sides lost money.
- mrhattrick27

The path of this lockout was incredibly predictable and not once was it going to end with the NHLPA "winning".

Yep. Fehr can technically say he was right, the deal did indeed get better. What he will leave out is that it cost the NHLPA 10s of millions more to get that extra year which only affects around 80 players of a 700+ member union.

Basically the NHL slow played their "concessions" during this whole lockout while making the NHLPA lose almost a billion dollars in unrecoverable revenue fighting for them.
- Gunner Staal

Not only is it just 10% of players, it is 10% of players who can now, maybe get 1 extra year on their contract. So instead of 5 years 9 million, they can get 6 years at 8.

I was comparing the most recent NHL offer to the one from like 3 weeks ago... I see movement by the NHL, but nothing that would justify losing yet another month.

Not to mention that if the players took the offer in October and did not demand 300 million make whole, it is entirely reasonable to assume ownership would have been glad to give them the contracting terms they are being offered now. The owners would have taken those terms and signed as fast as their little fingers could type.The owners made it perfectly clear in October they were willing to negotiate off of their offer.

We would have had a full season, albeit compressed a bit. The players would have made MUCH more money. The owners would have made more. The league would not be nearly as damaged (which affects players AND owners).

So... Fehr won them 300 million!! Lost them 900 million and counting. Lost BOTH parties in the long run.

So yeah, rock on Fehr. Nice work.
- Aetherial

maybe perception was always more important to the players than money.

or maybe Fehr gets a bonus based on how many games the league cancels without having to cancel the entire season.

anyhow, very anxious to hear the PA's counter. i imagine it will tell us if we're having a season or not.

maybe perception was always more important to the players than money.

or maybe Fehr gets a bonus based on how many games the league cancels without having to cancel the entire season.

anyhow, very anxious to hear the PA's counter. i imagine it will tell us if we're having a season or not.
- DoubleDown

At this point, I really have no idea what the PA will counter on?

I hope Fehr pulls out some other stupid sh!t.

maybe perception was always more important to the players than money.

- DoubleDown

Then they've failed pretty miserably there too.

But we all know that's ludicrous.

At this point, I really have no idea what the PA will counter on?

I hope Fehr pulls out some other stupid sh!t.
- Aetherial

The $60 cap in year 1, which i get.

At this point, I really have no idea what the PA will counter on?

I hope Fehr pulls out some other stupid sh!t.
- Aetherial

Their "hill" will likely be the $60M cap...my guess anyways

maybe perception was always more important to the players than money.

or maybe Fehr gets a bonus based on how many games the league cancels without having to cancel the entire season.

anyhow, very anxious to hear the PA's counter. i imagine it will tell us if we're having a season or not.
- DoubleDown

Some stats for NHLPA members to think about if season is cancelled:

46.7% of all retired NHL players as of 2008-2009, played in 80 games or less in their careers.

The last lockout had about 240 NHL players who played in 2003-04 and didn't return after the league came back.

Less than 10% of NHL players currently have a contract over 5 years in term.
The median for seasons played by an NHL player is 4 seasons.

http://hockeyhurts.com/gu...g-nhlpa-over-fiscal-cliff

Not true. Only if the NHLPA decides to file the DOI.
- MJL

The NHLPA cannot file a DOI, only the leadership of the NHLPA can, as in D. Fehr and company. That does not require a vote, just deFuhr's signature, and the leaders just walk away. The NHLPA would have to go through a 2 tiered voting process to disband, first stage a petition requiring 30% MEMBERSHIP, second would be a vote to disband, requiring 50%. This disbanding process requires 4 - six weeks, or more, too much time to be a bargaining tactic for this year.

DOI takes a signature, can happen in time to be used as a bargaining tactic.

MJL.... Are you in therapy yet for your GOD complex?

MJL.... Are you in therapy yet for your GOD complex?
- gstrandberg

This has been the best Blue Jackets season ever...

The $60 cap in year 1, which i get.
- mrhattrick27

To be honest, I am even confused about what that means? There is make whole anyway isn't there? I think I am just too lazy to try to figure out the numbers on this.

You are probably right in that that is where they will counter. I think the NHLPA all along has been trying to avoid actually going to 50/50 for as long as possible. In fact, they wanted to have only a 5 year CBA + their other stuff so that they would never actually get to 50/50.

Basically, they want a softer landing than the NBA of NFL got, so they can say they did better than the other unions and thus claim they won?

Who knows any more.

For the life of me, I don't see why the players are crying. They are listening to a man the killed baseball, I wonder if don is moonlighting as a chemist, and made the Kool-Aid into a powder form. The players are snorting the Kool-Aid powder and now they are addicted to Don. I guess we fans can call it fehr'ism
Definition of fehr'ism: Someone that is addicted to Don's JOHNSON. For you stupid people out there, that means (little man, shlong, pipe) and for you sophisticated people (penis).
Here is how I see it. Gary Bettman is the most player friendly commissioner I have ever seen. So before you go "WHAT" "is this guy snorting bettman's crack". Just shut up and read.
Gary Bettman took over as commissioner Feb 1, 1993.
There were 24 teams in the "little known, who cares league" with 23 players on the playing roster. Let do the math
24X23=552 players in the NHL with the Avg.Salary with around $572,000
Now fast forward to now.
There are 30 teams in the "Well known, Fan loved league" with 23 players on the playing roster. Let do the math
30x23=690 players in the NHL with the Avg.Salary of around $2.4 million
That around 138 extra players that have jobs with Avg.Salary of around $2.4 million
So let me get this straight. On Average 34 players that won't have had a job are making millions. Let do the math * I took 138/4=34.5 that how I got the average.
34x2.4 million = 57.6 million to player that are overpaid.
What I don't understand is how people and players can bash the man. Hell the average NFL player makes NFL $1.9 million with an $8.3 billion in revenue.
The NFL made over 2x more money that the NHL.
News flash beep beep. The NHL is mostly gate driven. The NFL has Hugh TV deals.
Canadians, I will get to your little man syndrome later.
So what I don't get is Troy Brouwer. Quote from troy .
I don’t know if anything’s going to happen because obviously the players aren’t happy with the last deal they gave us.
News flash Troy you were here.
2004-2005 Moose Jaw Warriors-WHL
Let see, you want more money. I hope the caps trade you away; the caps need man not players hanging from Don's JOHNSON.
What do you know about the last lockout Troy?
So basically the players think they are all that and a box of Ho Hos. look at what happened to Hostess you Ding Dong.
The best part of all of it is. It will be the last time you play in the NHL. Look at what happened to the average NHL player last time. NEVER PLAYED AGAIN LOL
Now we get to the Canadians.
People, people the world knows you have a little man syndrome, and the only thing you really have is hockey. Wake up little USA up north. Your children are killing your sport.
That's what happens when your kids are stupid. Most of the players shouldn't think, breed or breathe. Play dam hockey.
Now Back to Bettman, you little USA up north. Your just pissed because, the all mighty Gary Bettman, grow your game, made millionaire out of your dumb as dirty kids, and players still have the balls,
Well Don has a set up 690 or so balls in his bags. Know I see why the man acts the way he does. Dam, hauling around 690 sets of family jewels would make me act funny too.
Labor unions are good for people that work hard for a life time. They protect the common people of the world. Back in the day the players never want to be known as a union. Man how times have changed.
P.S. The letters for you people that can’t read: NHLPA National Hockey League Players' Association.
Where do you get off calling your over paid ass a union. Associations are what killed the union.
Union Or Association – What Is The Difference And Why Does It Matter?
http://www.addictinginfo....e-and-why-does-it-matter/
So that’s right, yell at the man that did all that for your sport and kids. Dam, I believe your Canadians education sucks, the left side of the bag of (family jewels) Don's holding.
How I would fix the lockout.
Kill the salary cap floor, give them long term contracts, 350 million to make whole, 10 year CBA.
Then trade Troy Brouwer to any stupid team that wants him and the sign roman hamerlik to a player/coach contract.

This has been the best Blue Jackets season ever...
- Flyfreaky

Definition of fehr'ism: Someone that is addicted to Don's JOHNSON. For you stupid people out there, that means (little man, shlong, pipe) and for you sophisticated people (penis).
- voodoospace

Your entire post is one of the stupidest, most fascinating pieces of drivel I've read all week. Nicely done!

You can bring up any issue you want from this lockout and I'll give you my opinion on who is giving the concession.
- MJL

Opinions are like anus's, we all have one. You surpass opinion and stand on your soap box and preach that yours is the only opinion, and the world is wrong if we don't see it through your rose colored, cool aid drinking NHLPA way.
I still say you're Larry Brooks in disguise.