Unfortunately, guns give lunatics a great tool for a corward to kill many, and then not face any consequences or feel guilt by imeaditaley killing oneself.


That being said you still can't just legislate guns away and think the problems are solved.
- Buffalo--Sabres

I realize this, but it has to start somewhere. I know that it's written within the American Constitution and amending that doesn't happen over night. In fact, it would probably a generation or two to fully take hold.

The elephant in the room, guns, has been avoided for far too long.

Why couldn't the following take place?
- Stop selling fully automatic assault weapons
- Ban fully automatic assault weapons
- Stricter licensing requirements
- Improve training requirements
- Stiffer penalties
- Strict background checks
- FEDERALLY REGULATE AMMO
- Create a gun return amnesty
- Provide tax credits to those who return weapons

ALL OF THIS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT CHANGING THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

What if it saves one life at the expense of another (and I'm not talking about the shooter, either)? Putting restraints on gun laws are going to make people, who were once legally able to carry a gun, and responsible enough to do so, ineligible. They may make it difficult to get a hold of by the wrong person, but they could, and inevitably will, keep it out of the right person's hand as well, one that could save lives as well. Does the benefit outweigh the cost? Perhaps, but that's not a decision you and I can simply make by discussing it in this forum.
- buffalofan19

For the record, we are not able to walk around in public carrying a handgun in Canada..

You can only posess a handgun, if you are travelling directly to or from a gun range. Unlike the US, where women have them in their purse...totally differnt.

I actually hunt with a single shot Ruger #1 45-70..
- bixll

that's impressive! I've just recently started to dabble in bow hunting. Very challenging.

Merica already has the never ending war on drugs and war on terror. We don't need another never ending/unwinnable war on guns.


Answer to our problem, I don't have one. People with little or no criminal history going out and committing some of the most brutal crimes in our countries history?
What do you do??????

edit: and most times they kill themselves right after.
- Buffalo--Sabres

You nailed it! How do you protect yourself from a person with no criminal record and seemingly a good person in the community UNTIL he goes crazy? Impossible to figure. It would help to have an armed security person at all schools in the country to try and deter a sicko but in reality he would most likely be the first one taken out and the spree would continue?? I know it is wrong but I will bet a lot of people are thinking they should be carrying a gun for their own safety. If the principal or other staff were packing a concealed gun this would not have been as severe but yeah that solution is not the answer either, just saying though

I realize this, but it has to start somewhere. I know that it's written within the American Constitution and amending that doesn't happen over night. In fact, it would probably a generation or two to fully take hold.

The elephant in the room, guns, has been avoided for far too long.

Why couldn't the following take place?
- Stop selling fully automatic assault weapons
- Ban fully automatic assault weapons
- Stricter licensing requirements
- Improve training requirements
- Stiffer penalties
- Strict background checks
- FEDERALLY REGULATE AMMO
- Create a gun return amnesty
- Provide tax credits to those who return weapons

ALL OF THIS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT CHANGING THE 2ND AMENDMENT!
- As_I_See_It

No it can't...you can't regulate the ammo, people load their own ammo as well. Eleminate the un-necessay AUTOMATIC guns. give those to the troops. Eliminate the guns that people do not hunt with. You can make it tougher to get the weapons, but the criminals will always have them.

It comes down to knowning what your kids are doing. Educate your kids. Spend time with them.

Technically it wasn't a hunting rifle. The gun he used was a Bushmaster, It's considered an assault rifle even though the one he possessed was just a hair above a .22 caliber. For the average owner these are mostly used in shooting competitions and long range varmint shooting like prairie dog hunting.
They have the ability to fire rapidly and can house extended magazines up to 30 to 40 rounds.

Certain law enforcement agencies favor this type of weapon for certain tactical confrontations and take downs. ie. Swat.
- MnGump

FTR--the caliber doesnt have anything to do with the classification. Assault rifles come chambered in .22LR, .223, .308 etc. Saying it is a hair over .22 is a bit disingenuous as even though the projectile is close, the casing is massively different(.22 is about a 1" compared to .223 which is 2.25"). Most AR's come with 30 rnd magazines from the manufacturer--an extended mag would most likely be one in the 50+ range(banana or drum).

To clear up my point... Weapons designed for war should not be accessible to the public.

Hunting, personal protection... No problem. But machines made to kill many people quickly should not be available.
- robin_steele264

Agreed.

is that your argument??
- LetsGoIsles

I do not think you get it based on your statement. You gotta be kidding or you need help. No sugar coating it.

that's impressive! I've just recently started to dabble in bow hunting. Very challenging.
- MnGump

You only need one well placed shot to take your deer down. If you don't have that clear shot, wait, or next time..Using a one shot rifle teaches patients.

No it can't...you can't regulate the ammo, people load their own ammo as well. Eleminate the un-necessay AUTOMATIC guns. give those to the troops. Eliminate the guns that people do not hunt with. You can make it tougher to get the weapons, but the criminals will always have them.

It comes down to knowning what your kids are doing. Educate your kids. Spend time with them.
- bixll

Great point about educating kids, but at the same time, guns are useless without ammo, aren't they?

Yes, criminals will always find a way, but tougher laws would go along way to helping with that. MASSIVE fines and longer prison terms are a great starting point, but certainly not the final answer.

FTR--the caliber doesnt have anything to do with the classification. Assault rifles come chambered in .22LR, .223, .308 etc. Saying it is a hair over .22 is a bit disingenuous as even though the projectile is close, the casing is massively different(.22 is about a 1" compared to .223 which is 2.25"). Most AR's come with 30 rnd magazines from the manufacturer--an extended mag would most likely be one in the 50+ range(banana or drum).
- Rawdog9755

You're right, I wasn't down playing the damage they can cause. Just saying it wasn't a traditional deer rifle as some have been led to believe.

My point was simply that even though the projectile is smaller than the average deer rifle, these are highly powerful and dangerous weapons.

You're right, I wasn't down playing the damage they can cause. Just saying it wasn't a traditional deer rifle as some have been led to believe.

My point was simply that even though the projectile is smaller than the average deer rifle, these are highly powerful and dangerous weapons.
- MnGump

Agreed. Im all for having reasonable discussions on gun rights provided people arguing for/against know what they are talking about. Cant tell you how many times I have seen the terminology "assault rifle" and "automatic" interchanged when the two terms are not the same at all.

At the same time, how many more would have been killed if he didn't had access to a gun, and instead, decided to look to Timothy McVeigh as a role model? The problem with both the "more gun control" and "less gun control" crowds is that everyone keeps looking at it as a simplistic "one or the other" scenario. If you think tightening gun laws will work, fine, you probably have a compelling argument, and one I probably won't disagree with. However, situations like this are rarely as simple as looking at only one factor and changing the law to fit. When you do that, other problems often come out of the woodwork.
- buffalofan19

i agree...violence will NOT be solved...but it will at least limit the options for these cowards to choose from.

What if it saves one life at the expense of another (and I'm not talking about the shooter, either)? Putting restraints on gun laws are going to make people, who were once legally able to carry a gun, and responsible enough to do so, ineligible. They may make it difficult to get a hold of by the wrong person, but they could, and inevitably will, keep it out of the right person's hand as well, one that could save lives as well. Does the benefit outweigh the cost? Perhaps, but that's not a decision you and I can simply make by discussing it in this forum.
- buffalofan19

i respect your opinion and your responses but youre not saying anything that isnt already known. OBVIOUSLY, it isnt an "easy" decision to be made otherwise it would have been done already. however, if people are now walking into kindergarten classrooms and shooting innocent babies who dont even know what murder is than something has to be done.

Agreed. Im all for having reasonable discussions on gun rights provided people arguing for/against know what they are talking about. Cant tell you how many times I have seen the terminology "assault rifle" and "automatic" interchanged when the two terms are not the same at all.
- Rawdog9755

So if you don't know the correct technical terms on guns, or know the specifics of guns, then you can't be involved in a reasonable discussion on guns? Nitpicking about technical terms used is being unreasonable.

So if you don't know the correct technical terms on guns, or know the specifics of guns, then you can't be involved in a reasonable discussion on guns? Nitpicking about technical terms used is being unreasonable.
- MJL

Its not nitpicking when there are real differences. This isnt the same as some grammar nazi telling somebody they used their instead of they're. As i stated earlier, banning assault rifles is not the same as banning automatics. There are nuances to the discussion people should be aware of.

So if you don't know the correct technical terms on guns, or know the specifics of guns, then you can't be involved in a reasonable discussion on guns? Nitpicking about technical terms used is being unreasonable.
- MJL

I will tell you all, the .223 cal is a miltary round designed to wound, not kill. In battle, if you wound someone, it takes 2 of their men to remove him, clearing th feild of 3 men. If you kill someone, you only take out 1 guy. The .223 is a small fast bullet, disigned to have an active kill range of 600 yards. It is not designed to hunt, anything but it is good for gophers or other varmits.

I have a room, locked with no door knob, just dead bolts.

I have won many competitions.

I do not own assult rifles.

I did not register my guns..Nor would I if the registry was NOT aboloshed.

The last statement to absolutley FALSE...I have been involved in this for years. Totally a false statement, my friend.
- bixll

Start here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/po...gistry-police-chiefs.html

Then go here:

http://www.theglobeandmai...-registry/article1682806/

Start here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/po...gistry-police-chiefs.html

Then go here:

http://www.theglobeandmai...-registry/article1682806/
- Atomic Wedgie

Buddy, you can read in the public papers all you want. I have been a shooter for many years and have many RCMP and local cop friends. This is not the majority, no matter what you find written.. What is a chief supposed to say??

I will tell you all, the .223 cal is a miltary round designed to wound, not kill. In battle, if you wound someone, it takes 2 of their men to remove him, clearing th feild of 3 men. If you kill someone, you only take out 1 guy. The .223 is a small fast bullet, disigned to have an active kill range of 600 yards. It is not designed to hunt, anything but it is good for gophers or other varmits.
- bixll

Which is exactly why the military has lobbied for AR's chambered in .308(7.62 NATO instead of .223/5.56 NATO). Troops were complaining that the .223/5.56 round was not stopping enemy forces as they could get hit with multiple rounds and keep coming where as the lower velocity, larger 7.62 was much better at stopping the intended target.

Buddy, you can read in the public papers all you want. I have been a shooter for many years and have many RCMP and local cop friends. This is not the majority, no matter what you find written.. What is a chief supposed to say??
- bixll

So your local cop friends are a better barometer than the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police?

Or the rank and file, who consulted the registry up to 11,000 times a day?

So your local cop friends are a better barometer than the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police?

Or the rank and file, who consulted the registry up to 11,000 times a day?
- Atomic Wedgie

The Chiefs have to say what the public want to hear..the registry is a big pile of crap. 4.3 million guns registered with incorrect name and addresses. 5.1 million guns that are registered are registered incorrectly, with wrong serial numbers. ( Whats the point) it is a joke in our neck of the woods. Why would anyone or anything consult such a pile of crap.

The registry was to assist the police to where the guns are. Yet there is no place on the registry form that asked where you keep your guns...

Things adding up yet? Because a kid in TO goes into a restaurant and shoots the place up. A rabbit hunter in Port Hood must register his .22 cal.. makes sense to me..NOT.

I realize this, but it has to start somewhere. I know that it's written within the American Constitution and amending that doesn't happen over night. In fact, it would probably a generation or two to fully take hold.

The elephant in the room, guns, has been avoided for far too long.

Why couldn't the following take place?
- Stop selling fully automatic assault weapons
- Ban fully automatic assault weapons
- Stricter licensing requirements
- Improve training requirements
- Stiffer penalties
- Strict background checks
- FEDERALLY REGULATE AMMO
- Create a gun return amnesty
- Provide tax credits to those who return weapons

ALL OF THIS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT CHANGING THE 2ND AMENDMENT!
- As_I_See_It

-stop handing out mind altering narcotics (ie anti depressants) to every Tom, Dick and Harry that is having a bad day or got dumped by their girlfriend.


I absolutely agree there should be stricter laws on owning assault weapons - but the inability for people to deal with their own emotions without the assistance of some type of anti depressant has to be factored in on this. The most normal people misdiagnosed with some form of anti depressant can become a drastically different person in the matter of no time. Champix was a huge hit to help people quit smoking, imagine, anti depressants to help you quit smoking!! That's absurd! I have a friend who is a normal fun loving family man, that took Champix to help him quit and within weeks was having dreams of harming his children and wife...normal folks, on mind altering medication when it's not needed, will not think like themselves.

I'm not providing any excuses here for this pathetic excuse of a human, but I'd be very interested to see what type of meds he may have been on, and whether it was truly necessary to be on them.

Just my opinion, and surprised it hasn't been brought up yet

There is no classroom full of dead children if one armed individual was at that school to greet the sick SOB. A police officer or Principal should have a firearm locked up on school premises. They should also be trained with the fire arm just in case such an event is to occur.
Why do think these shootings always take place in front of buildings that so No Concealed Firearms on Premises.....
It's because their soft targets ad you can't wrap your liberal mind around it....Don't worry your sickness is treatable
- tmlfan17

There is so much wrong with this post. Firstly, why is it a guarantee that the "one armed individual" at the school would have shot the guy, and not become another victim? Second, you mention one of the problems - these mass shooters are COWARDS. They go to a location where they KNOW that they are not going to be stopped. So the only solution is to arm every single person in the country?

The Chiefs have to say what the public want to hear..the registry is a big pile of crap. 4.3 million guns registered with incorrect name and addresses. 5.1 million guns that are registered are registered incorrectly, with wrong serial numbers. ( Whats the point) it is a joke in our neck of the woods. Why would anyone or anything consult such a pile of crap.

The registry was to assist the police to where the guns are. Yet there is no place on the registry form that asked where you keep your guns...

Things adding up yet? Because a kid in TO goes into a restaurant and shoots the place up. A rabbit hunter in Port Hood must register his .22 cal.. makes sense to me..NOT.
- bixll

There are hundreds of laws on the books that are there because of the minority. This is the reality of the world.

Maybe that rabbit hunter in Port Hood should be willing to give up a small amount of his 'freedoms' in order to ensure that another 20 children aren't gunned down.