When do we get to just go back to bickering with fans of other teams.

This lockout used to be so entertaining, now it is just boring.

Reminds of the story of a Leafs season in that regard.
- Aetherial

Lets get started
Lu for Gardiner and a 1st and Lu for Komi and a 4th.

Where the (frank) did I say that?
You're an train wreck in the making.
I can't continue to chat with someone who reads something that isn;t there.
- sloppyseconds2

Well then explain why you have a problem with as you put it, "the players want a share of profits"? I read what was there. You didn't make any sense.

so.. what you're suggesting, is that under all that hero chest pounding, you actually have a point?

.. riiight.
- joel878

You're confused aren't you. Just read slowly and carefully, sound out the words, and don't be shy about consulting a dictionary as often as you need to.

The players don't want a cut of profits. They want a cut of revenue. Should the players play for free? What the hell are you talking about?

Being popular and being skilled sometimes goes hand in hand. Sidney Crosby is both popular and hated among fans, and highly skilled. But you can bet that when he comes to other cities to play, he puts people in the seats.

if the Owners can get player endorsement money to be included in HRR, more power to them.
- MJL

Um NFL has many many more sir
- Cheeseballin

Now again by 2 biggest stars they can only have one in addition to Brady according to math, no? Brady is without question the games biggest star(I hate the (frank)er) manning is 2nd. Peyton that is. And those Manning are about as backward as they come in front of a camara.

No question that the players are down over 500M in salary, that they've lost in the lockout. But I disagree that they would've lost zero actual dollars if they had taken the deal earlier in the off season. That was never going to happen in this CBA. They may not have taken a salary cut. And they wouldn't have lost as mich money due to the lockout. But going from 57% to 50% of revenue is going to cost them a ton of actual dollars. The players were willing to lose paychecks this year to fight the League. Right or wrong.
- MJL

Thank you for agreeing to the point i was making even when you were arguing against it. The problem for your argument is that the players (in principle) agree to go down to 50% so all they are fighting for is how they get to 50%. So, knowing that both sides agree to get down to 50% in the next few years, the players are clearly wrong. They had a chance not to lose any paychecks on current contracts, that is gone. They have also hurt revenue for the league which affects future contracts (knowing the future contracts will be at 50% of what revenue the league has) so they've clearly cost themselves money on that front. There is no "right" for the players.

If the Owner's know what's better on the money issues, we wouldn't be in this mess. The Owner's certainly know what is better for them on the money issues. I also don't know that the Cap was the best thing to happen to Hockey in the last 20 years. You only see lockouts in League's that have a salary Cap. And I'm not denying that some type of spending control was needed. But it's double edged sword. League revenues thrived because of the Salary Cap? Am I reading that correctly? Because I doubt that. Saying that the players have the emotional maturity of a 12 year old, is something that a 12 year old would say. So good luck saying that to the players. You'd be making yourself look foolish. And you obviously overlook that the NHLPA has their own economic experts and advisers.
- MJL

I'd really love to hear from the NHLPA economic advisors because clearly they were absent the day that Fehr handed the league 3 half-assed ideas that he himself admitted that the NHLPA hadn't "run the numbers". Nor have I heard anything from the experts you claim the NHLPA has. If they are there, they aren't doing their job because the NHLPA has lost 100s of millions any way you look at it. See my response to paragraph 1.

The owners as a collective, the NHL BOG, have a better grasp and much higher focus on longterm viability of the league. The players, on a good day, are hoping to get the best deal they can short term. It's a constant struggle between the 2 sides. The problem occurs when there is a concept that may be in the best interest of the game but the union mentality, no matter who explains it to them, is that they will not willingly give management an inch. Unfortunately it's a fact of life today that most unions would rather have their companies go under than give management the benefit of the doubt. I've read cases where management has opened up their books to the union, said we can't operate at what we pay you, we need to lower employee expenses or we'll have to close. The union rejected that argument even after seeing the books, convinced that the owners had a second set of books and were lying to them. Two months later thousands of union workers were collecting unemployment because they refused to work with management and instead viewed management as the enemy.

It's simply a biased comment to state that everyone loses because of the PA. When there is legitimate criticisms to be made towards both sides. And to single out the PA as the only cause of the lockout is to overlook the facts.

If you would use some common sense, you might come to some correct conclusions. Because you obviously overlook and or ignore the times when common sense came to the correct conclusion. But really what does that have to do with anything? Not much.
- MJL

My opinion is that the NHLPA has fought this past the point of reason, yours is otherwise. I've got math on my side. If the players believe in something other than math, I can't help that. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Common sense requires you to make assumptions and you know what they say happens when you assume? The owners locked out the players based on FACTS. The fact that Fehr has gone on strike for the MLB playoffs in order to extort more from the owners. The fact is that math states the players have lost on the money issue regardless of whether or not they win on other issues. It's a fact that the player expenses were growing faster than revenues.

Those are all facts unless you can imagine a plausible scenerio, at this point, where the players make more money than if they had signed at least one of the previous deals on the table.

The owners aren't infallible. Some of them are extremely greedy, some are generous, some are ruthless but as a collective (the BOG) that have a very impressive well of experience in dealing with labor issues and are more capable of seeing the big picture than the vast majority of the players. They have no desire to punish the players. The players seem to be doing plenty of that to themselves. Maybe they are hiding money, if you could prove it the NHLPA would be eternally grateful but if you can't, let's not make assumptions.

The owners can't reign themselves in outside of the confines of the CBA and no CBA is ever going to be perfect. No human is perfect therefore no CBA can be perfect. Market conditions have changed, the CBA needs to reflect this reality. I have no problem with the NHLPA defending their members within reason but that time passed over a month ago. Now it's all about EGO, proving that that they can't be pushed around.

Lets get started
Lu for Gardiner and a 1st and Lu for Komi and a 4th.
- Bieksa#3

You have TWO Lu's?

Man I am rusty at this...

Um, LOLongo for ConnoLOL and MacArthaLOL?

Now again by 2 biggest stars they can only have one in addition to Brady according to math, no? Brady is without question the games biggest star(I hate the (frank)er) manning is 2nd. Peyton that is. And those Manning are about as backward as they come in front of a camara.
- Bieksa#3

Just go start a riot or something.

Luongo foe Bessie and a third


- Rayven

Now again by 2 biggest stars they can only have one in addition to Brady according to math, no? Brady is without question the games biggest star(I hate the (frank)er) manning is 2nd. Peyton that is. And those Manning are about as backward as they come in front of a camara.
- Bieksa#3

Manning lol try Rodgers

hey Sloppy, PurseDog just managed to ignore half my point in this thread.

Someone made a list of the most prominent Pro PA supporters on this site. They should all be embarrassed to be associated with each other. I would immediately become an owner supporter if I had these people arguing on my side.
- Aetherial

I'm just getting sick with these guys being so pro NHLPA, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when they disregard the beliefs and opinions of others as being wrong, they have lost all respect.
IMO, the NHLPA is in the wrong, being greedy, thats my opinion.
I don't need MJL questioning me and providing his one sided opinion to try and convince everyone he has all the answers.
I'm not responding to any more of his posts.
Hope everyone else will do the same.

for sure they would, they'd go to see the best players in the world. they're not seeking out games to shell money out on to watch an allegedly popular team, full of 4th line hacks. the players sell the game.

and as cavemanish as he is, he's revolutionized his entire franchise. the man barely spoke english and ovechkin uni's are flying off the shelves. wierd, alot of people around here would have you believe even ovi sweaters were being outsold by larry tannenbaum jerseys.
- joel878

You don't get it. You'll readily admit he's not a marketing dream, could barely speak English, and yet, his jerseys fly off the shelf. If Crosby and Ovechkin were wiped off the face of the earth, tomorrow, someone would take their place.

There will always be someone else to take their place. And there was always someone else there. It's not about the current set of names that has led to record revenue. That has nothing to do with it.

Manning lol try Rodgers
- Cheeseballin

Even he is terrible in front of a camara. Thanks for supporting my post.

Price is what Luongo was in Florida. Making the best of a poopty situation. When Montreal gets defensemen not named Kaberle or Komisarek they will be singing a different tune.

I respect your want for a non-lockout topic. I wish I could resist a lockout argument.
- trolleytracks

Luongo hasn't earned elite status in my book either, for what its worth, but that's a whole different argument.

Won't it be nice when we can get back to arguing stuff like this?

I'm just getting sick with these guys being so pro NHLPA, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when they disregard the beliefs and opinions of others as being wrong, they have lost all respect.
IMO, the NHLPA is in the wrong, being greedy, thats my opinion.
I don't need MJL questioning me and providing his one sided opinion to try and convince everyone he has all the answers.
I'm not responding to any more of his posts.
Hope everyone else will do the same.
- sloppyseconds2

I agree no more responding to him. Hes the almighty no questioning him.

Which one is procks mom?

- Rayven

Even he is terrible in front of a camara. Thanks for supporting my post.
- Bieksa#3

You must not watch the NFL. try again

Well then explain why you have a problem with as you put it, "the players want a share of profits"? I read what was there. You didn't make any sense.
- MJL

GFYS, you only read what you want to see.
I'm done with you.

Did the skill and ability of those Russian players have anything to do with the NHL being able to market those players successfully?
- MJL

Yes. I never said they weren't extremely skilled hockey players. The part you keep missing, the most relevant part, is that their skillset is only relevant within the confines of the NHL (north america). If they aren't playing in that venue, nobody cares about their skillset. The NHL will market the best players in the NHL whether they be Ovechkin or Malkin or someone else. You keep refusing to answer how not having Ovechkin and Malkin in the NHL makes them a secondary hockey league in North America. You have no argument which is why you keep dancing around the issue.

Instead of Ovechkin they would be promoting Shane Doan. Instead of Malkin they would've promoted Danial Alfredsson more. There's always players to promote. Always. Ovechkin and Malkin's skillsets don't matter one bit if they don't have a venue to showcase it in.

P manning will win the MVP this year.

You don't get it. You'll readily admit he's not a marketing dream, could barely speak English, and yet, his jerseys fly off the shelf. If Crosby and Ovechkin were wiped off the face of the earth, tomorrow, someone would take their place.

There will always be someone else to take their place. And there was always someone else there. It's not about the current set of names that has led to record revenue. That has nothing to do with it.
- prock

he's not a marketing dream, yet he generated interest in the game. he did it by playing a high tempo physical game, that usually ended with multiple pucks in the back of the net. ovechkin put backsides in the seats by becoming an exciting player. he didn't become famous because he pulled a washington capital's jersey.

same with crosby, stamkos, malkin.. they all have their draws and star power as players.

i don't get it? your stance is purely hypothetical. i'm expected to buy into the idea that given the platform, guys like zigomanis could have the same drawing power as guys like ovie? no. it's the persona these people have built as players that puts backsides in the seats, and creates fans out of people who typically wouldn't watch the game.

Now again by 2 biggest stars they can only have one in addition to Brady according to math, no? Brady is without question the games biggest star(I hate the (frank)er) manning is 2nd. Peyton that is. And those Manning are about as backward as they come in front of a camara.
- Bieksa#3

Patriots fans are like Canadiens fans. They live the past, and they're retarded.

You don't get it. You'll readily admit he's not a marketing dream, could barely speak English, and yet, his jerseys fly off the shelf. If Crosby and Ovechkin were wiped off the face of the earth, tomorrow, someone would take their place.

There will always be someone else to take their place. And there was always someone else there. It's not about the current set of names that has led to record revenue. That has nothing to do with it.
- prock

I ECHL

P manning will win the MVP this year.
- drewski

After those first few games he has been on fire

Hahahahah! BOOM!

You are the gift that keeps on giving, to behavioral psychlogists everywhere

Thank you chihuahua, for all that you do.
cal
- Aetherial

Just WOW!