It all makes sense now. Just found out Ed Snider really did give birth to the AYN RAND INSTITUTE. Helping turn greedy little bast@rds like you onto his selfish agenda since 1985.
- fattyboubatty

It's funny that people who worship Rand promote selfishness when we wouldn't have survived as a species if we were uncompromisingly selfish.

Almost as many as the Oilers.......
- golfingsince

Yeah, if 0 between 2 teams combined is almost as many as 7 for 1 team then you are correct.

Again, nothing was dodged. And I can answer any question on the lockout you want to throw at me. And I've never once stated that they are entitled to a better deal than 2 other sports that make more revenue. And again, your blaming Fehr.

And I assure you, I'm not enjoying the lockout.
- MJL

Hahahahaha.

That is all.

I guess so! How dare they!

- MJL

Exactly. How dare they. Agreed.

When you break down the deal, and actually look at the numbers over the life of the deal. It doesn't come close to looking pretty bad.

So they're $182m apart over 5 years. 182/5 = 36.4m per year. 36.4/30 teams = $1.213m per team
- MJL

Where did you hear that? From Fehr.

As long as he insists on the potential delinkage (potential meaning absolutely 100% for sure). Then it's not even close to that, and you know that.

If it's only 182 million. That's about 52k per player over he same 5 years.

Do you think if the PA members had a vote to give up another 52k each and its game on. That they wouldn't go for it?

when you can't answer something, you dodge,

you feel they are entitled to a better deal than 2 other sports that make more revenue than them, because of the big ballsy bad advise player rep,

hope your enjoying the lockout MJL, I'm not.
- puckhead17

it's what he does. constantly.
so many holes in every argument he makes, it must be exhausting for him

Where did you hear that? From Fehr.

As long as he insists on the potential delinkage (potential meaning absolutely 100% for sure). Then it's not even close to that, and you know that.

If it's only 182 million. That's about 52k per player over he same 5 years.

Do you think if the PA members had a vote to give up another 52k each and its game on. That they wouldn't go for it?
- steveb12344

i read that reply to me. and sighed. he's all over fehrs jock so bad that he refuses to see the truth

it's a waste of time. we can come up with point after point, rebutta after rebuttal, and he just dodges, disregards and comes back to the same nonsense

Where did you hear that? From Fehr.

As long as he insists on the potential delinkage (potential meaning absolutely 100% for sure). Then it's not even close to that, and you know that.

If it's only 182 million. That's about 52k per player over he same 5 years.

Do you think if the PA members had a vote to give up another 52k each and its game on. That they wouldn't go for it?
- steveb12344

double.
somebody wanted me to drive this home...

it's what he does. constantly.
so many holes in every argument he makes, it must be exhausting for him
- hugefemale dog77

It is worse than that.


Even when you can nail him down by pointing out directly conflicting quotes he has made... he will still come back later that day, or the next, with the same incorrect argument he made last time.

This is why my original assessment of him looks more accurate than I knew. He is a troll, nothing more. I am not even convinced he believes his own crap. I mean nobody could be that stupid, could they?

It is worse than that.


Even when you can nail him down by pointing out directly conflicting quotes he has made... he will still come back later that day, or the next, with the same incorrect argument he made last time.

This is why my original assessment of him looks more accurate than I knew. He is a troll, nothing more. I am not even convinced he believes his own crap. I mean nobody could be that stupid, could they?
- Aetherial

over the course of a few days his debates with different people were pretty funny.
he began with you and i mentioning the big move made by the union as coming off the guarantees to percentages. then we quickly stamped that one out. and he kinda disregarded debating for a day or two with u.

but moved onto someone else and used the same argument with them
.
now with me again, its a good deal because of how close fehr says the 2 sides are as far as the money paid out....

the dude makes me chuckle

The players took home something like 90+ percent of the revenue after expenses.
And you think revenue sharing is the solution.
- Aetherial

link?

link?
- golfingsince

Actually if you go by Forbes data.(i know it's not 100% accurate but it's all we got) The PA got roughly 87% of profits.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

Actually if you go by Forbes data.(i know it's not 100% accurate but it's all we got) The PA got roughly 87% of profits.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
- steveb12344

Less than I thought, actually.

Someone earlier in the week was citing numbers that said almost 95%... I thought I was being conservative at 90%.

... in any case, all 3 numbers show a ridiculous disparity in the split of profits in this league.

Less than I thought, actually.

Someone earlier in the week was citing numbers that said almost 95%... I thought I was being conservative at 90%.

... in any case, all 3 numbers show a ridiculous disparity in the split of profits in this league.
- Aetherial

Who knows with this Forbes stuff.

I was basically agreeing with your 90% assessment though.

You guys hear about Bolland?

He retweeted some guy on twitter: "Can i get a RT for wanting Bettman dead"

Classy bunch that NHLPA.

He later tried to recant by saying he "accidentally" retweeted it.

LOL. What was he just sitting at the nudie bar with some peeler on his lap, looking at his phone with one eye just randomly retweeting poop.

I'd say more likely he got a call from his lawyer.

Also O'neill now says his account was hacked. Give me a break. The guy retired 7 years ago. Who would care enough to hack him?

Less than I thought, actually.

Someone earlier in the week was citing numbers that said almost 95%... I thought I was being conservative at 90%.

... in any case, all 3 numbers show a ridiculous disparity in the split of profits in this league.
- Aetherial

And yet, it should make complete sense for anyone who stops to think about it. All the salary cap did was bring down costs at the top end; that pretty much granted the high-revenue teams a license to print money. Meanwhile, it forced up spending at the lower end, making it difficult to impossible for low-revenue teams to turn a profit.

The results were entirely predictable - and yet, there are people who are shocked about it and/or think math can do the impossible.

And yet, it should make complete sense for anyone who stops to think about it. All the salary cap did was bring down costs at the top end; that pretty much granted the high-revenue teams a license to print money. Meanwhile, it forced up spending at the lower end, making it difficult to impossible for low-revenue teams to turn a profit.

The results were entirely predictable - and yet, there are people who are shocked about it and/or think math can do the impossible.
- Irish Blues

You are right, it really is not tough to figure out how the players got so much money from this past CBA and how it killed the profitsof a lot of teams. I have to admit that until I saw this first mentioned a couple weeks ago, I had never really thought of it.

I am not sure what the best solution is though...

Get out of the bad markets maybe?

Actually if you go by Forbes data.(i know it's not 100% accurate but it's all we got) The PA got roughly 87% of profits.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
- steveb12344

So a team like the Penguins really suffered. They lost $200K, but saw the value of their franchise rise 12%, to $264 Million. Yup, they lost a ton....

C'mon man seriously, there are so many ways to crunch numbers as a business.

Case in point, I make probably triple what my employer makes. However, the guy literally has zero expenses except for a small percentage of his food.

Cancel. Decertify. Blah. Who cares? They certainly don't. Goodbye 2012-13 NHL season. Possibly 2013-14. NHL unlikely to ever reach previous level again. Players and owners whine about less money. Guys like me laugh and don't care.

Walking Dead is on tomorrow night. Sons Of Anarchy on Tuesday. (frank) these guys.

Cancel. Decertify. Blah. Who cares? They certainly don't. Goodbye 2012-13 NHL season. Possibly 2013-14. NHL unlikely to ever reach previous level again. Players and owners whine about less money. Guys like me laugh and don't care.

Walking Dead is on tomorrow night. Sons Of Anarchy on Tuesday. (frank) these guys.
- sanfordnson

Nice choice of shows!

I'd like to add the NFL to that mix.

Please put us out of our misery already and cancel the season. By now most sensible people have realized that's exactly what's going to happen.
Thank you, Buttman and Fehr!
F U, Buttman and Fehr!

How many posts do I see with people talking about the last CBA, you know that has expired right ? The last CBA has nothing to do with this at all and people that talk about it in regards to the negotiating are using sounding stupid.

The season is going to be done unless the players accept the 50-50 split with no stupid but if clauses, that is what the owners have said and they are prepared to lose this season and the next, the players still think they have some negotiating power, they have none and now they are losing money, probably more than they would have anyway, immature, petulant, self righteous idiots being taken for a ride by Fehr, who is probably making a MINT the further the negotiations go along.

How many posts do I see with people talking about the last CBA, you know that has expired right ? The last CBA has nothing to do with this at all and people that talk about it in regards to the negotiating are using sounding stupid.

The season is going to be done unless the players accept the 50-50 split with no stupid but if clauses, that is what the owners have said and they are prepared to lose this season and the next, the players still think they have some negotiating power, they have none and now they are losing money, probably more than they would have anyway, immature, petulant, self righteous idiots being taken for a ride by Fehr, who is probably making a MINT the further the negotiations go along.
- MikeyOz

1. imo, it's the players alone who are concentrating and bargaining on the last CBA. it seems like they almost solely have retribution and principle in mind because of how badly their tactics backfired on them last time. it's been the biggest obstacle to getting a deal done
2. i think fehr has pledged to not get paid while the lockout continues..just sayin
3. other than the very first point (1) and the very last (2), i couldnt agree more. good post

I agree with Ek on the point that "business men" can villify each other and it's just business. Involve those with a more personal stake in the discussions and it becomes, well, personal.

The reason players have agents is the same reason that they have Donald Fehr. Funny how whenever a player is interviewed regarding personal contract negotiations, they always say "I try no to think too much about it, and just let my agent handle the business end of things. I just want to focus on my game."

Yet now, the players are spouting off left and right, and have their noses ass deep in it all. What happened to the "Just let Donald handle it" attitude that they have with their agents.

Whetehr you agree with Bettman or Fehr, this is exactly what they get hired to do. But I agree with Ek, that I don't understand why the chef is letting the kids in the kitchen.
- JasonHarrison

This!!!