No. Dude, you can't even understand what you are writing yourself, so maybe you should stop arguing with what others are writing.

Nice try though.
- golfingsince

Ok i'm getting annoyed now. You are so (frank)ing dumb that simple math even elludes you.

The NHL proposed to offer $200 million/year. PA's proposal was for 5 years.

This would see the league allot $1 billion over the course of the 5 yr term to revenue sharing.

That math lesson was free, if you want any more we will have to discuss a fee.

Is this just your opinion or is it fact?

Because if it's fact then i would have to ask for a source.

Though if it's your opinion, then that's fine because after reading your nonsensical posts. Your opinion actually means less then nothing to me.
- steveb12344

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...5&post_id=9729060#9729060

Ok i'm getting annoyed now. You are so (frank)ing dumb that simple math even elludes you.

The NHL proposed to offer $200 million/year. PA's proposal was for 5 years.

This would see the league allot $1 billion over the course of the 5 yr term to revenue sharing.

That math lesson was free, if you want any more we will have to discuss a fee.
- steveb12344

No, it was for 200 million by your own post or $40 million a year. You should be annoyed with yourself

I Just want to know why it has to come down to a lockout? Bettman, Fehr and the rest of the league knew the contract would expire before this season,so why wait till the last minute? Why can't the NHL and the NHLPA act like adults to get a new contract in place and signed before or during the 2012 offseason? Regardless of intentions of either side, the NHL is now being known for it's lockouts more than anything else, and it's quite embarassing to say the least. We have grown men who can't all come together and figure out a mature way to make tons of money together? The owners make ZERO money without the players, and the players make ZERO money without the owners. Why can't they sit down like adults and just figure the stupid thing out, sign it for 10-12 years and continue to grow the sport? If the richest teams in the league have to help out the struggling ones for a few years,until the new CBA finally starts making money , then so be it. I understand the concern of these smaller markets signing big 10 year contracts that they can't afford, but at the same time, some of the owners want a winning product on the ice so they spend the money.

I,myself, am a Panther fan and will always be a Panther fan. The last thing I want is to see my team fold because of this lockout. The Panthers and the Kings were too teams that were struggling and in the red but have found success (Panthers won SE divison, Kings are the Champs) and this may kill those teams. I want to see all 30 teams thriving and successful (and dare I say adding even more teams the the league) without going through this nonsense every 7 years.

I wonder if Komisarek does? He can't feel too good after a visit to this site.
- weirdoh

What do you mean? I am of the few who respect Komi around here

No, it was for 200 million by your own post or $40 million a year. You should be annoyed with yourself
- golfingsince

You are right i mixed up the numbers. I was referring to the 230 million that you were suggesting the players wanted to put in rev sharing. not the 200/yr the owners were offering. I can see how that post was confusing.

If you are contending though that the players are giving up $230/ yr under thier proposal, then i misunderstood your post. And you are dreaming if you think thier proposal actually offered that.

Other than Don Fehr saying it, those numbers are a fantasy living inside the players heads.

Are you really trying to argue that Crosby isn't a huge draw for fans? It's not just about Pittsburgh home games. When they're on the road it's a hot ticket because people want to see him play. I go out of my way to try and go Isles/Penguins games...I don't give a rats ass about going when the Islanders play Columbus or Phoenix.
- eichiefs9

im saying tat he is not the sole reason HRR went up.

He got people interested in hockey again. All you have to do is look at the attendance before and after he joined the team. Is that all on him? No. But he's easily marketable. And as someone esle pointed out, other fans pay to see him play in their arenas. You also can't discount jersey and other marketable sales as well.
- david22

i agree im just pointing out that crosby is not the sole reason HRR went up.

im saying tat he is not the sole reason HRR went up.
- joshs

one of the biggest reason had NOTHING to do with the players or owners, it was the Canadian dollar moving up to par with the USD since 2005

im saying tat he is not the sole reason HRR went up.
- joshs

No and he is not the only person getting a good salary. The point is that he is underpaid relative to how much money he has brought in for his employers relative to other people on the team

im saying tat he is not the sole reason HRR went up.
- joshs

Certainly not, but he was definitely the biggest part of it among players-only. Like I said, people pay to see him come to town. You can be the Coliseum is more packed when the Pens come to town than when we have the Panthers here.

one of the biggest reason had NOTHING to do with the players or owners, it was the Canadian dollar moving up to par with the USD since 2005
- Symba007

The Penguins value has increased 164% since he was drafted - more than any other franchise by a long shot. Penguins revenue comes in US dollars and they pay out in the same.

Overall, the incease in the Canadian dollar only explains a relatively small portion in the increae in revenues. The League has done a good job in a whole bunch of areas, mostly attributed to aguy named John Colins -- their VP of sonmething like business operations. The influence of star power -- Sid, Ovie and Stamkos among others has helped a lot.

I Just want to know why it has to come down to a lockout? Bettman, Fehr and the rest of the league knew the contract would expire before this season,so why wait till the last minute? Why can't the NHL and the NHLPA act like adults to get a new contract in place and signed before or during the 2012 offseason? Regardless of intentions of either side, the NHL is now being known for it's lockouts more than anything else, and it's quite embarassing to say the least. We have grown men who can't all come together and figure out a mature way to make tons of money together? The owners make ZERO money without the players, and the players make ZERO money without the owners. Why can't they sit down like adults and just figure the stupid thing out, sign it for 10-12 years and continue to grow the sport? If the richest teams in the league have to help out the struggling ones for a few years,until the new CBA finally starts making money , then so be it. I understand the concern of these smaller markets signing big 10 year contracts that they can't afford, but at the same time, some of the owners want a winning product on the ice so they spend the money.

I,myself, am a Panther fan and will always be a Panther fan. The last thing I want is to see my team fold because of this lockout. The Panthers and the Kings were too teams that were struggling and in the red but have found success (Panthers won SE divison, Kings are the Champs) and this may kill those teams. I want to see all 30 teams thriving and successful (and dare I say adding even more teams the the league) without going through this nonsense every 7 years.
- pantherfan12

The owners whole negotiating strategy relies on lockouts and waiting the players out. Both sides knew that real negotiations would only start when things came down to the crunch -- crunch time may still be a few weeks away.

No and he is not the only person getting a good salary. The point is that he is underpaid relative to how much money he has brought in for his employers relative to other people on the team
- Canada Cup

8.7 a season plus bonuses. im not even gonna mention that he also gets 10 mil a year endorsements. see this is why i cant back the PA. because people gloss over the fact that this guy is making insane amount of money for playin hockey. regardless of what he brings in or what his pay is comparable to the rest of the team, this money is just disgusting. thats like making 150,000 a week. lets hear from the PA. well he's underpaid because he brings in.........sorry deaf ears!

Both sides are very much to blame for this mess.
The owners got exactly what they wanted in the last CBA: A hard salary cap and a 24% rollback in salaries.
The players know that a 57/43 split is ridiculous and is hurting too many teams; they also know that when they finally settle this thing its going to be at 50/50 whether they like it or not.
The big problem is not a single player trusts Gary Bettman and not a single owner wants to deal with Donald Fehr. To actually get a deal done, both Bettman and Fehr need to remove themselves from the process, but that will never happen.

My other concern is that an owner like Jeremy Jacobs of Boston would rather go 2 years without playing, instead of compromising in any way with the NHLPA. If that is so, then expect the union to decertify and we will be lucky if NHL hockey returns before 2014-15.

Whats really the saddest is that a reasonable solution to this mess is easy to see. The players need to accept that the split is going to 50/50 and the "make whole" issue is simply not going to happen the way they want it to.
The owners need to understand that if the players are willing to accept 50/50 and a likely rollback; its imperative that they leave free agency, ELCs, and contract length and structuring as is.

Finally the league, and that means you Mr. Bettman, need to accept that hockey is never going to be big in some U.S. markets and it is time to move teams to new markets such as western Ontario, Quebec and Seattle.

The problem as I see it is that Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr, along with owners like Jacobs and players like Crosby care more about $$$ and their inflated egos than they do about getting NHL hockey back on the ice.

Thus, in conclusion, I can only repeat the following:
FU Gary Bettman
FU Donald Fehr
FU NHL owners
FU NHLPA
YOU ALL SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- BiggE

Amen.

However, I do have to point out that once again Ek you are giving Bettman the easy out here. While Fehr may well be a complete _ick.. this is indeed his third month on the job... how long has Gary "the meaning of arrogance" Bettman being kicking around, messing up negotiations and generally being a monumental pita. Which is amazing for such a little weasel. Say what you like, justify it however you like... you defend Bettman... and he IS as much of the problem as anyone else in this "negotiation".

8.7 a season plus bonuses. im not even gonna mention that he also gets 10 mil a year endorsements. see this is why i cant back the PA. because people gloss over the fact that this guy is making insane amount of money for playin hockey. regardless of what he brings in or what his pay is comparable to the rest of the team, this money is just disgusting. thats like making 150,000 a week. lets hear from the PA. well he's underpaid because he brings in.........sorry deaf ears!
- joshs

PA has not said he is underpaid. I did based on the value he has brought to his employers. There are hundreds of CEOs making huge money whose companies are losing money.

The owners whole negotiating strategy relies on lockouts and waiting the players out. Both sides knew that real negotiations would only start when things came down to the crunch -- crunch time may still be a few weeks away.
- Canada Cup

Owners wanted to negotiate a year ago but the PA wouldn't.


Crunch time is when the players realize they are gonna lose a years salary on their short career.

Amazing they haven't realized it yet.

Owners wanted to negotiate a year ago but the PA wouldn't.


Crunch time is when the players realize they are gonna lose a years salary on their short career.

Amazing they haven't realized it yet.
- robin_steele264

Nobody wanted to negotiate a year ago. Big pressure on both sides but since players are so dumb, they may not heed the advice of all the labour negotiators on here.

I wonder if the league would be in this mess if we still had 24-26 teams???

Nobody wanted to negotiate a year ago. Big pressure on both sides but since players are so dumb, they may not heed the advice of all the labour negotiators on here.
- Canada Cup

Well maybe they should heed the advice of former players who have been through this song and dance before.

Both sides are very much to blame for this mess.
The owners got exactly what they wanted in the last CBA: A hard salary cap and a 24% rollback in salaries.
The players know that a 57/43 split is ridiculous and is hurting too many teams; they also know that when they finally settle this thing its going to be at 50/50 whether they like it or not.
The big problem is not a single player trusts Gary Bettman and not a single owner wants to deal with Donald Fehr. To actually get a deal done, both Bettman and Fehr need to remove themselves from the process, but that will never happen.

My other concern is that an owner like Jeremy Jacobs of Boston would rather go 2 years without playing, instead of compromising in any way with the NHLPA. If that is so, then expect the union to decertify and we will be lucky if NHL hockey returns before 2014-15.


I agree with you. Cancel the whole season and let the players get real jobs. They'll realize how good they had it. They can commiserate with the union representing the Hostess workers. They don't have jobs anymore either.


Whats really the saddest is that a reasonable solution to this mess is easy to see. The players need to accept that the split is going to 50/50 and the "make whole" issue is simply not going to happen the way they want it to.
The owners need to understand that if the players are willing to accept 50/50 and a likely rollback; its imperative that they leave free agency, ELCs, and contract length and structuring as is.

Finally the league, and that means you Mr. Bettman, need to accept that hockey is never going to be big in some U.S. markets and it is time to move teams to new markets such as western Ontario, Quebec and Seattle.

The problem as I see it is that Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr, along with owners like Jacobs and players like Crosby care more about $$$ and their inflated egos than they do about getting NHL hockey back on the ice.

Thus, in conclusion, I can only repeat the following:
FU Gary Bettman
FU Donald Fehr
FU NHL owners
FU NHLPA
YOU ALL SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- BiggE

If it were easy to fix, it would be fixed.

This must have more to do with future contract limits/restrictions (5 years, no back diving deals) than bridging the make whole gap.

And then there is the clash of egos and the players' determination to see Bettman lose.
- Losman

Is it so much that the Players want to see Bettman lose - Or perhaps that Bettman needs to see himself win?

Last time around no question the owners and Bettman won. And what did they do ... circumvent their own CAP rules any way they could, some particular dumb ones (and yes I'm choosing that dumb word consciously) signed middling players to rediculous contracts. Bettman fought to keep Pheonix in Pheonix as the expense of a ready buyer he had in Ballsilie- and that certainly seemed to be quite a personal issue... not business.

So perhaps some of the players are venting and being negative towards Napoleon... but - quite frankly the owners and Bettman have done it to themselves.

Eklund: EXACTLY where I see this whole mess right now. And how easy it is to fix.
- Eklund

Ek I think you need to sit down and talk to an accountant or tax expert who handles sports franchises in the US to really understand who makes money and who doesn't, then maybe you would see the whole picture rather than the headlines so and so is losing money. Billionaires don't become billionaires by losing money and don't believe they buy a sports franchise for a hobby. Why do you think there was such an argument over HRR and the PA received almost 700 pages of financials? Out of the 30 there will be a few bad businessmen but only a few and if you really believe all these teams talked about are losing money then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

Go ahead and cancel the whole season and let the players look for real jobs, like the former Hostess workers, whose union likewise was out of touch. There are plenty of other sports to keep our attention. No way I'm giving these jerks any of my hard-earned money.

Owners wanted to negotiate a year ago but the PA wouldn't.


Crunch time is when the players realize they are gonna lose a years salary on their short career.

Amazing they haven't realized it yet.
- robin_steele264

Perhaps they (the players knew) that the only offer they were going to get was "50/50 of something that hadn't and isn't yet clearly defined" and an ultimatum. Maybe that's why they didn't bother with the negotiation.