I took a lot of heat from player friends of mine for the last blog, saying I have become too pro owner in this dispute. To set the record straight, the last blog really was about trying to help players see the bigger picture, which is very hard to do when you are so invested in a dispute. I get that.


....Sure ya did Ek....
- IRON.MAIDEN

i was thinkin the same thing..

future?? how so?

The amount of money getting paid to the players in year one will suck, but after that the NHL has agreed to make whole until 50% exceeds 1.88 (which could be in year 3) and then the next 7-12 years would see NHL players making a killing at 50/50 as well as the NHL teams becoming stronger. Even the lesser market teams would be on solid ground and be able to pay more

this selfless act from the union is a joke.

even though in 5 years theyll be making a killing again, prob make more for future generations, and at least take steps to help the health of the league they say they care about. they arent willing to do this, cause they want their guaranteed money NOW.
im not even saying they shouldnt want the money they signed for..but lets not call it something its not.
- hugefemale dog77

You're addressing a different issue regarding the negotiations and looking at the greed of the players in another area. I'm talking about revenue sharing amongst the owners. They will be making good money, no question. Make whole is one issue where the players are just trying to get what they were contracted to. If you look at this whole negotiation on that one subject then sure, its present day stuff and no future is involved. But it's only part of this whole mess.

i was thinkin the same thing..
- hugefemale dog77

Must have been making reference to the guys in his senior hockey league at the YMCA.

You're addressing a different issue regarding the negotiations and looking at the greed of the players in another area. I'm talking about revenue sharing amongst the owners. They will be making good money, no question. Make whole is one issue where the players are just trying to get what they were contracted to. If you look at this whole negotiation on that one subject then sure, its present day stuff and no future is involved. But it's only part of this whole mess.
- Boosinicka

which is the biggest issue. by far. how to get to that 50/50 and the honoring of contracts is by far the biggest issue..for both sides. u commented on the players thinking about the future, and in this case (the biggest obstacle) theyre not.

and imo, the contractual issues are next in terms of importance. which are a much bigger issue for the players than the owners. again, imo.

of course fehr and the players want to CONTINUE to thrive in the future. and they think revenue sharing will help, which im sure it would. and theyve shown they have some addendums to push in that direction.
but this whole selfless, health of the league, future generations is all secondary by a large margin and the revenue sharing etc. would be quickly conceded if they got there money NOW.. and they prove it over and over.

Thanks, for those not sure what exactly I'm getting at, this article by James Mirtle has been the most eye opening to me in all of this lockout crap.

http://www.theglobeandmai...-nhl-have/article5103058/

MLB shares %31 in revenue amongst each other, the NHL? %4.5. That's ridiculous. But it only takes 7 rich owners to kibosh any notion to increase that percentage. Those teams would be taking a large cut, they would be making the teams around them better too. So completely understandable why they wouldn't want to do that. But individual greed is getting in the way of the over all benefit of that league. Despite making the league more competitive in which becomes more entertaining, which becomes more lucrative, and they would eventually make more than they are now.
- Boosinicka

You realize that baseball had revenues of well over 6 billion and profits of well over 500 million in 2011. Which in both cases is about double what the NHL generates.

The NHL showed profits of less then 300 million. They have been offering 200 million in revenue sharing to the players in thier recent proposals.

How much more room do you think there is to give.

Also the NHL is mostly a gate-driven league. Which means most of the revenues are generated by the individual teams. Where MLB and the NFL have massive TV contracts which generate huge percentage of thier revenues.

You cannot reasonably expect the NHL to follow the MLB of NFL models.

You realize that baseball had revenues of well of 6 billion and profits of well over 500 million in 2011. Which in both cases is about double what the NHL generates.

The NHL showed profits of less then 300 million. They have been offering 200 million to the players in thier recent proposals.

How much more room do you think there is to give.

Also the NHL is mostly a gate-driven league. Which means most of the revenues are generated by the individual teams. Where MLB and the NFL have massive TV contracts which generate huge percentage of thier revenues.

You cannot reasonably expect the NHL to follow the MLB of NFL models.
- steveb12344

ive stopped even replying to any MLB comparisons. it's a whole different ball game. no pun intended.
the nfl??!! not even worth mentioning.
the basic ethos of the leagues are on different planets.

we've done the no cap, big spenders etc in the 90's. the product on and off the ice was as bad as it ever has been. hence the 04 lockout.
we want no part of an mlb type league

the biggest part. by far. how to get to that 50/50 and the honoring of contracts is by far the biggest issue..for both sides.

then the contractual issues. which imo, are a bigger issue for the players than the owners.

of course fehr and the players want to CONTINUE to thrive in the future. and have some addendums to push in that direction. but this whole selfless, health of the league, future generations is all secondary by a large margin. and they prove it over and over.
- hugefemale dog77

And this is exactly why Saul(?) brought it up. You are right, that is the biggest issue. And it shouldn't be, not saying it's not an issue, but it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just saying Fehr is the only one addressing the league's revenue sharing amongst owners. It's certainly not coming from the owners side. And that is a more important topic.

As for the make whole, well, I'm a firm believer that a contract is a contract. Pay the players what you agreed to pay them. Unfortunate they would have to fight over such a thing. Players need to bend on the contract restrictions though.

The only reason the league is worried about decertification is that the lengthy court battle would mean loss of this season and maybe another.

You are living in fantasyland if you think the players would somehow win in that scenario. Though i'm not certain that Don Fehr wouldn't want to still try.
- steveb12344

NBA settled 5 days after their PA decertified. I don't think the move means there can't be a season. Long court fight was over NFLPA fight to have lockout declared illegal. PA can also withdraw its representation meaning no more CBA. All the scab lovers could see owners go after replacement players BUT owners could and would also go after stars and, without a CBA, bidding would be wild.

Eklund: EXACTLY where I see this whole mess right now. And how easy it is to fix.
- Eklund

http://www.youtube.com/wa...5Mr5eCF2U&feature=related

The corollary here is that as long as high-revenue teams grow faster than low-revenue teams, and as long as the cap system counts all revenues, then it will always be inevitable that the cap floor moves above the point that low-revenue teams can afford. The owners have to come up with a true long-term solution for how to set up the cap in such a way that low-revenue teams are not squeezed down the road and asking for even-increasing amounts of revenue sharing.

Increased revenue sharing is a band-aid, and masks the true extent of the problem described above. The more low-revenue teams struggle to hit the floor, the more revenue sharing is going to be needed - and in the long-term, that's not a true solution. Dropping the HRR split and/or increasing revenue sharing may delay the problem from being apparent for a few years, but it's inevitable that it will happen as things stand.
- Irish Blues

Thank you

And this is exactly why Saul(?) brought it up. You are right, that is the biggest issue. And it shouldn't be, not saying it's not an issue, but it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just saying Fehr is the only one addressing the league's revenue sharing amongst owners. It's certainly not coming from the owners side. And that is a more important topic.

As for the make whole, well, I'm a firm believer that a contract is a contract. Pay the players what you agreed to pay them. Unfortunate they would have to fight over such a thing. Players need to bend on the contract restrictions though.
- Boosinicka

i agree.
if the players and the owners truly cared about the health of the league instead of just there own bank accounts it might be the biggest issue. all 30 teams can work imo. and not just work, thrive. revenue sharing just has to be a part of the equation.

and that was my original point. maybe intentions were best laid at the beginning from the union, but it's quickly deveolved into "MY" share now, and the future is now a distant second or third issue

You realize that baseball had revenues of well over 6 billion and profits of well over 500 million in 2011. Which in both cases is about double what the NHL generates.

The NHL showed profits of less then 300 million. They have been offering 200 million in revenue sharing to the players in thier recent proposals.

How much more room do you think there is to give.

Also the NHL is mostly a gate-driven league. Which means most of the revenues are generated by the individual teams. Where MLB and the NFL have massive TV contracts which generate huge percentage of thier revenues.

You cannot reasonably expect the NHL to follow the MLB of NFL models.
- steveb12344

? I think you are missing my point, has nothing to do with the players receiving X amount of cash or percentage of profits. This is among the owners paying/receiving of revenues. MLB made double as you mentioned, what difference does that make when you talk about sharing profits in a percentage format? MLB shared %31 of that 500mil amongst each other, NHL shared %4.5 of their 300mil. That means teams who didn't make or lost money get little to no help and the rich teams stay on top. Make the richer teams share more of the profits to weaker teams like the MLB and NFL (I think the NFL is %60?) do and you will see a healthier league.

I don't expect them to follow the MLB or NFL models to a T but they are far superior in revenue growth so they have to be doing something right that the NHL isn't.

increased revenue sharing. 1/3rd floor. ceiling limit regardless of revenue for 5 year parcels. (can go down though)

increased revenue sharing. 1/3rd floor. ceiling limit regardless of revenue for 5 year parcels. (can go down though)
- hugefemale dog77

What does last point mean?

? I think you are missing my point, has nothing to do with the players receiving X amount of cash or percentage of profits. This is among the owners paying/receiving of revenues. MLB made double as you mentioned, what difference does that make when you talk about sharing profits in a percentage format? MLB shared %31 of that 500mil amongst each other, NHL shared %4.5 of their 300mil. That means teams who didn't make or lost money get little to no help and the rich teams stay on top. Make the richer teams share more of the profits to weaker teams like the MLB and NFL (I think the NFL is %60?) do and you will see a healthier league.

I don't expect them to follow the MLB or NFL models to a T but they are far superior in revenue growth so they have to be doing something right that the NHL isn't.
- Boosinicka

this keeps the kc royals alive, but does nothing to promote parity.

the on field product is just as important as the off. u need both.
especially in a niche market like hockey, where years of futility or not even having the chance to compete will absolutely kill alot of franchises

What does last point mean?
- Canada Cup

ceiling based on current revenues, but capped for say 5 year parcels regardless of increasing revenue. it can be dropped with decreasing revenues though

struggling to put it clearly and succinctly. my bad

NBA settled 5 days after their PA decertified. I don't think the move means there can't be a season. Long court fight was over NFLPA fight to have lockout declared illegal. PA can also withdraw its representation meaning no more CBA. All the scab lovers could see owners go after replacement players BUT owners could and would also go after stars and, without a CBA, bidding would be wild.
- Canada Cup

Actually the NBPA threatened to decertify, then a deal was reached. Big difference.

Again you cannot compare from one league to another, the circumstances are much different in each case.

I hope the threat would be enough to get this settled. Though sadly i think the PA will have thier hands full if they go down that road. I don't believe that the NHL will allow itself to be strongarmed into signing a deal that they can't live with moving forward.

i agree.
if the players and the owners truly cared about the health of the league instead of just there own bank accounts it might be the biggest issue. all 30 teams can work imo. and not just work, thrive. revenue sharing just has to be a part of the equation.

and that was my original point. maybe intentions were best laid at the beginning from the union, but it's quickly deveolved into "MY" share now, and the future is now a distant second or third issue
- hugefemale dog77

Yup exactly

It does seem it has gone that way. I wish the NHL hadn't gone to the Luntz guy as now I question everything presented from the media. Fans seem angry towards the players for this make whole deal but the league is being an bumhole about it and it's literally chump change to them. So it seems they found what makes the players look bad and selfish in all of this and really press the issue via the media. I'm just speculating. There is greed with the players for sure, but I would fight tooth and nail for the full sum of money someone had contracted me too. If you leave breaking a contract as an option for a person to save money, expect it to keep happening.

? I think you are missing my point, has nothing to do with the players receiving X amount of cash or percentage of profits. This is among the owners paying/receiving of revenues. MLB made double as you mentioned, what difference does that make when you talk about sharing profits in a percentage format? MLB shared %31 of that 500mil amongst each other, NHL shared %4.5 of their 300mil. That means teams who didn't make or lost money get little to no help and the rich teams stay on top. Make the richer teams share more of the profits to weaker teams like the MLB and NFL (I think the NFL is %60?) do and you will see a healthier league.

I don't expect them to follow the MLB or NFL models to a T but they are far superior in revenue growth so they have to be doing something right that the NHL isn't.
- Boosinicka

This shows that you really have no clue as to what is happening here, so i see no point in debating this any further with you.

You realize that baseball had revenues of well over 6 billion and profits of well over 500 million in 2011. Which in both cases is about double what the NHL generates.

The NHL showed profits of less then 300 million. They have been offering 200 million in revenue sharing to the players in thier recent proposals.

How much more room do you think there is to give.

Also the NHL is mostly a gate-driven league. Which means most of the revenues are generated by the individual teams. Where MLB and the NFL have massive TV contracts which generate huge percentage of thier revenues.

You cannot reasonably expect the NHL to follow the MLB of NFL models.
- steveb12344

All!!!

This shows that you really have no clue as to what is happening here, so i see no point in debating this any further with you.
- steveb12344

agreed!!
so many want this to be baseball's baby,

Don't say that poop man. We'll hear about this for the next year.
- weirdoh

This shows that you really have no clue as to what is happening here, so i see no point in debating this any further with you.
- steveb12344

aka you have no rebuttal to this and don't want to part from your ideology. Got it.

Bottom line is NHL needs higher revenue sharing amongst it's owners to remain competitive. All I was trying to do is show that this a huge problem that needs to be fixed. If comparing to another league doesn't work for you than that's fine, but it's the only examples available for the result of higher revenue sharing we would want to see. I certainly do not want the NHL to be "MLB's baby" if you think just because higher revenue sharing works in another league and therefore it will not work for the NHL, then you sir have no idea what you are talking about. And you are correct, there is no point in this debate.

Anybody "pro player" in this dispute now is a teen-age groupie/ hero worshiper. The owners are successful people who made their fortunes in other businesses; the players are just lucky jocks who make way too much money. The inappropriate and offensive personal attacks made by ignorant players will not be quickly forgotten by grown-up fans, or the owners.

agreed!!
so many want this to be baseball's baby,


- puckhead17

20 years ago i used to pay pretty much equal attention to MLB and NHL.

Now baseball has become a joke, and if youre not a Dodger,Philli,Yankee,Bosox fan, then there is rarely anything to get excited about.

NHL on the other hand has done nothing but improve since then.

It went from being a league where most of the playoff teams were decided by Christmas, and only maybe 2 or 3 had a legit shot at the Cup. With midseason games being almost meaningless.

To what we have now. A league where teams have to fight tooth and nail ALL season long, and the ones that make the dance all have a real chance to win it all. As has been evident by the number of 8th seeds to reach the Finals during the last CBA.

I don't know about you, but i know which NHL i have enjoyed more.