I will not buy anything hockey related for an entire year starting now... (even if the season starts in december) its time to make a point

-last 2 seasons I went to an average of 6-7 games: $50+ per ticket plus a friend and parking.. around $450 dollars

-two jerseys:$80 each..

-Hat: $35

-NHL 12 video game: $60

-all other random poop i bought: $alot





- thew2589

And if it was in Toronto,

2 tickets, $250 each.

Two Jersey's, about $200 each.

Hat: $40.00 each.

NHL Video, $70.00 each.

Other stuff......mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There is a huge price differential, in some markets as opposed to others. You can at least go to 6 or 7 games. Our costs, we might get to go once or twice a year. This is why we hate the damned Revenue Sharing. We have to pay all of this money, so teams like Florida can sell their 4 tickets, 4 Soda's, 4 Hotdogs, for $99.00 packages.

There is also quite a bit of money that the owners actually get to keep that isn't included in HRR (and thus, isn't included in the numbers).

For example, while 100% of parking revenue is included in HRR, you can deduct direct costs up to 30% of the revenue.
100% of concession revenues on game night count for HRR, but you can deduct up to 54% of the revenue.
So, just 70% of parking revenue and 46% of concession revenue actually go against HRR.

Also, if a public authority pays a team a certain amount to stay in a city, that all counts towards HRR. But, if a public authority builds the stadium, the owner gets to keep 100% of the benefit from the wealth transfer.

Another thing, only 65% of box lease revenue and club/premium seat revenue count towards HRR, while 100% of regular seats count towards HRR.

The links are here http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf#page=178 and http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf#page=199.

So the owners do get more money than they are reporting. Some teams may not be profitable in a pure HRR sense, but make their money up elsewhere.

Similar to how Amazon early on didn't make money on their books, but through selling books at cost, they made more money selling all their other stuff. Simple business practices.
- StayTunedMTC

And what about endorsements, that the players get? Like Crosby with Reebok, or Ovechkin with the hockey skate company. They get to keep 100% of that too!

I'm all for a salary cap, all the teams playing with the same amount of money to put a team together. But I still believe the NHL needs to reorganize itself. Certain markets don't work while others obviously would, and there are too many teams.
- LeftCoaster

Exactly and I agree!

This entire league is a poop show. Have a CBA that is set to expire next season, start what they all knew would be horrible negotiations only a couple months prior to the date of the lockout. I am disgusted in myself for investing in Red Wings season tickets. I feel like such a fool. Should have joined my friends in getting Lions tickets. At least now I know better.

Eklund - Here is what I want to hear during the lock out. NOT A SINGLE THING ABOUT AN OWNER, BETTMAN, A PLAYER, OR A TEAM.

Send an email out to all your bloggers and tell them to start focusing on the AHL teams that are affiliated with the NHL. Let's cover the kids who are playing the game. Let's cover the prospects in the CHL and Europe. Let's totally ignore the NHL and send a message that we love the game of hockey, not the greed of the NHL. Let's send a message that we are no longer interested in those fractions that are only interested in raising ticket prices and sucking our hard earned money out of our pocket.

The following message to fans was issued by the National Hockey League on Sunday:

Despite the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the National Hockey League has been, and remains, committed to negotiating around the clock to reach a new CBA that is fair to the Players and to the 30 NHL teams.

Thanks to the conditions fostered by seven seasons under the previous CBA, competitive balance has created arguably the most meaningful regular season in pro sports; a different team has won the Stanley Cup every year; fans and sponsors have agreed the game is at its best, and the League has generated remarkable growth and momentum. While our last CBA negotiation resulted in a seismic change in the League's economic system, and produced corresponding on-ice benefits, our current negotiation is focused on a fairer and more sustainable division of revenues with the Players -- as well as other necessary adjustments consistent with the objectives of the economic system we developed jointly with the NHL Players' Association seven years ago. Those adjustments are attainable through sensible, focused negotiation -- not through rhetoric.

This is a time of year for all attention to be focused on the ice, not on a meeting room. The League, the Clubs and the Players all have a stake in resolving our bargaining issues appropriately and getting the puck dropped as soon as possible. We owe it to each other, to the game and, most of all, to the fans.


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=641584&navid=DL|NHL|home

The sad truth is that Americans will vote for the guy they LIKE, rather than the guy who may actually do a better job. Pathetic!
- BiggE

The vast majority of the press in the United States were educated at the same Universities, by the same Professors. So if you have a left wing professor, that's been on the job for 30 years and he educates and hands out the marks, who gets the better marks? Probably students with the same ideology. They hit the job market, with higher grades then the student with a conservative or center right prospective, and get the open positions in the news media. So after 25 years, the large media outlets have hired mostly left of center reporters, who get promoted and bring in more of these kind of people, with similar idiology.

This is how the left in America got control of most of the news media. It's also the reason that a socialist, with no business background, weak on foreign policy candidate, like Barrack Obama, gets elected. He's one of them!

Kevin McGran ‏@kevin_mcgran
NHL puts "message to our fans" on website, praising the just-expired CBA -- the one they refuse to play under anymore
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=641584&navid=DL|NHL|home

The following message to fans was issued by the National Hockey League on Sunday:

Despite the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the National Hockey League has been, and remains, committed to negotiating around the clock to reach a new CBA that is fair to the Players and to the 30 NHL teams.

Thanks to the conditions fostered by seven seasons under the previous CBA, competitive balance has created arguably the most meaningful regular season in pro sports; a different team has won the Stanley Cup every year; fans and sponsors have agreed the game is at its best, and the League has generated remarkable growth and momentum. While our last CBA negotiation resulted in a seismic change in the League's economic system, and produced corresponding on-ice benefits, our current negotiation is focused on a fairer and more sustainable division of revenues with the Players -- as well as other necessary adjustments consistent with the objectives of the economic system we developed jointly with the NHL Players' Association seven years ago. Those adjustments are attainable through sensible, focused negotiation -- not through rhetoric.

This is a time of year for all attention to be focused on the ice, not on a meeting room. The League, the Clubs and the Players all have a stake in resolving our bargaining issues appropriately and getting the puck dropped as soon as possible. We owe it to each other, to the game and, most of all, to the fans.


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=641584&navid=DL|NHL|home
- Symba007

The League needs to stop opening their mouths and making themselves look stupid, and instead concentrate on getting this resolved.

The League needs to stop opening their mouths and making themselves look stupid, and instead concentrate on getting this resolved.
- burn

You got that right. They should have said: We have a suite at the Marriott Marques, in New York City. It will be staffed by 5 negotiators, at all time. Our door is open to you, NHLPA, whenever you are ready to come to the table.

Short and sweet and shows that they want to resolve this. Of course it's all optics, but isn't this what both sides try to spin?

Eklund - Here is what I want to hear during the lock out. NOT A SINGLE THING ABOUT AN OWNER, BETTMAN, A PLAYER, OR A TEAM.

Send an email out to all your bloggers and tell them to start focusing on the AHL teams that are affiliated with the NHL. Let's cover the kids who are playing the game. Let's cover the prospects in the CHL and Europe. Let's totally ignore the NHL and send a message that we love the game of hockey, not the greed of the NHL. Let's send a message that we are no longer interested in those fractions that are only interested in raising ticket prices and sucking our hard earned money out of our pocket.
- dgutzman

The AHL is going to have a lot of young talent this year with the lockout. Would not be a bad idea for the NHL Network or NBCSports to broadcast a few games. I would definitely watch.

The vast majority of the press in the United States were educated at the same Universities, by the same Professors. So if you have a left wing professor, that's been on the job for 30 years and he educates and hands out the marks, who gets the better marks? Probably students with the same ideology. They hit the job market, with higher grades then the student with a conservative or center right prospective, and get the open positions in the news media. So after 25 years, the large media outlets have hired mostly left of center reporters, who get promoted and bring in more of these kind of people, with similar idiology.

This is how the left in America got control of most of the news media. It's also the reason that a socialist, with no business background, weak on foreign policy candidate, like Barrack Obama, gets elected. He's one of them!
- PrinceLH

Dude, Fox News is the biggest news channel in America. Wall St. Journal, etc. The left wing media thing is totally overstated. Obama and Bush II have been very similar. Bush massively increased government spending, and both poured zillions of taxpayer dollars into failing banks, automakers, etc. This left/right thing has no meaning anymore, it's just two different versions of the same corruption.

Dude, Fox News is the biggest news channel in America. Wall St. Journal, etc. The left wing media thing is totally overstated. Obama and Bush II have been very similar. Bush massively increased government spending, and both poured zillions of taxpayer dollars into failing banks, automakers, etc. This left/right thing has no meaning anymore, it's just two different versions of the same corruption.
- Zezel

Same reason that the Tea Party got neutered. They were perceived as too right wing, when really they were about common sense. If the Republicans lose this next election, with a weak, ineffective sitting President, there will be a major split in the Republican Party. It will be the same as what happened to the old Progressive Conservative Party, in Canada. A sizeable percentage of the party will leave and start their own party, like the Reform party did here. Eventually, they'll purge the old dogma and come up with a more common sense party that will sell. But how long will that take? It took 14 years to achieve in Canada. I don't think the Americans have that much time, when looking at their economic future.

One last thing. FOX News got so big, because the vast majority of the media outlets, had the same political spin. FOX came in, with the right of center spin and took away market share. People were fed up, of the same old, same old. It's now FOX News versus NBC, ABC, CBS and PBS. Newspapers are mostly pro liberal, while talk radio is mostly pro conservative. It's what you might call a balancing out.

Same reason that the Tea Party got neutered. They were perceived as too right wing, when really they were about common sense. If the Republicans lose this next election, with a weak, ineffective sitting President, there will be a major split in the Republican Party. It will be the same as what happened to the old Progressive Conservative Party, in Canada. A sizeable percentage of the party will leave and start their own party, like the Reform party did here. Eventually, they'll purge the old dogma and come up with a more common sense party that will sell. But how long will that take? It took 14 years to achieve in Canada. I don't think the Americans have that much time, when looking at their economic future.
- PrinceLH

I certainly hope there is a split and the traditional libertarian 'paleoconservatives' move away from the neocons, who are about as conservative as Trotskyites. Should be interesting.

another reason to hate Obama?!?

The US is in big trouble unless we get a real President and Congress... which isnt going to happen anytime soon.
- SuperHenderson13

Too bad Mitt is a cardboard cut-out

Phoque NHL, chl is better hockey. I enjoy 16$ qmjhl playoff hockey at pepsi coliseum while $300 hockey sucked in playoff at the Bell Centre. Ryan Bourque had 1g and 3a in the game and Jonathan Roy had 2g and Patrick Roy Yelling at Referee. I only notice the Referee and Goalies in NHL. The coach can't even yell at the referee in nhl.

Too bad Mitt is a cardboard cut-out
- BobbySchmautz

Yeah, I wanted Mike Huckabee!!

Get used to it, because the U.S. can't stop printing and spending money. While the U.S. is spending well over a trillion dollars a year, than it takes in, and the Canadian economy is close to a balanced budget, it'll only widen the gap. Unless there is a change, after the next U.S. election, then the U.S. dollar is destined to fall further behind the Canadian dollar.
- PrinceLH

You should understand how intertwined the U.S. and Canadian economies are, how Canada has suddenly flipped from a trade surplus to a trade deficit, and how the U.S. economy [along with most if not all of the rest of the world] is nosing downward back into recession ... and then realize what that means for exchange rates.

Maybe the self-proclaimed economics guru around here will give you a half-assed explanation.

Relocate 5 teams from the States - move them to Hamilton, Toronto, Quebec City, Sask and put one in the Maritimes
- MTL1

Who's going to pay the couple hundred millions of dollars for lease penalties to make that happen? And who's going to put up guarantees in case Team A is moved to some place in Canada and it doesn't work out as expected and the team loses even more money?

Great talking point, but it runs into trouble when you start looking at what it would entail.

You should understand how intertwined the U.S. and Canadian economies are, how Canada has suddenly flipped from a trade surplus to a trade deficit, and how the U.S. economy
- Irish Blues[along with most if not all of the rest of the world] is nosing downward back into recession ... and then realize what that means for exchange rates.

Maybe the self-proclaimed economics guru around here will give you a half-assed explanation.


Who's going to pay the couple hundred millions of dollars for lease penalties to make that happen? And who's going to put up guarantees in case Team A is moved to some place in Canada and it doesn't work out as expected and the team loses even more money?

Great talking point, but it runs into trouble when you start looking at what it would entail.

safe to say that there is no worry about that.

What's the average life-span of a NHL owner?
- bloatedmosquito

Alot longer in Canada than the U.S me thinks, that's all I got....lol

I wanted to post this here, it's been an ongoing debate between myself and another poster here. I thought I'd share why, although the players need to go down from 57% to 50%, the owners also need to include an actual revenue sharing plan, not the sham it has now.

TL;DR
The increase of $7.46 million dollars per team going from 57% to 50% (or from 43% to 50%, however you want to look at it) will disproportionately be distributed to the teams making more money and not towards the smaller market teams, leaving the same problem as before. I'm all for 50%, but if the owners don't include revenue sharing, we will be continuing this same cycle next time around.

Fix the problems, don't duct tape them.


Story
Well, each team would only get a hypothetical 7.46 million increase if it went to 50-50.

Under the current 43% for the owners, the owners received around 283 mil profit for this last year in total. Divide that by 30 teams, you get around $9,433,333 profit per team.

If we use the owners current 54% percent number, that leaves the owners with roughly 635 million in profit. Divide that by 30 teams, you get around $21,166,666 profit per team.

Now at 50%, league profits would be $507 million. Divide that by 30 teams, you get around $16,900,000 profit per team.

So from the system they had in place at 57%, each team theoretically had $9,433,333 in profit for this last year. Under the 50% proposal (which I am in favor of), each team would get around $16,900,000 profit per team. Subtract 9 from 16 and you get an increase of $7,466,667.

Now, while that 7 million sounds like a good number, we have to realize that that increase will almost certainly go towards the select few teams who have a high revenue (profit) stream. That money will barely trickle down to the other clubs.

So let's say we move a couple teams and they become profitable. The problem is, as you stated, 18 teams lost money. So even if you move four teams, that leaves 14 teams who still will lose money and will continue to lose money because they don't have an adequate profit sharing system in place. So the problem never really gets solved.

You and I agree on a majority of this, I just don't think you see how revenue sharing, coupled with the 50-50, is what will really help to fix the problem the NHL and its owners face. If there was revenue sharing, the smaller market teams would get that $7.4 million, maybe more if revenue sharing helps only the teams losing money.
- StayTunedMTC

Any business should PROFIT at least 15%. That would mean the league at current levels should over all profit 495 million (16.5 mill each). 50/50 split would get them close.

Too bad Mitt is a cardboard cut-out
- BobbySchmautz

He mistifies me to be honest, Romney says all this crazy poop and then he doesn't even say what he is going to do, he just says elect me and you will see.

If you guys elect him we may as well get rid of the internet and bring back steam cars, 8 tracks and vcr's.

GREED!!!

F the NHL

safe to say that there is no worry about that.
- burn

In theory, sure. I can easily see a scenario where someone gets moved to a 2nd-tier market, the exchange rate goes to $1.12CN=$1US and the Canadian economy rolls over along with the U.S., and now the newly relocated team is losing even more money than it did in the U.S. [where it would now be in better shape, even if it was still losing money].

Owners decide where a team plays. No owner has the power to tell anyone else "you must move to ______ to suit my/our needs" and no owner is going to relocate his team to some other location without some kind of guarantee that he's not going to be worse off as a result.