You're ridiculous if you think a league without revenue sharing will result in lower prices. Prices are based on Supply and Demand. Demand is high in Toronto, but supply doesn't change. Your prices will continue to go up regardless, and your owners will continue to make huge profits while fielding an inferior team because they don't need to improve to 'win'
- BleedBlueSTL

And profit sharing will change this how?

Eklund you're a F****ing idiot. Where was it written the league has to operate after the CBA expires. This is a business. Wake the F*** up.

The NHL has every right to negotiate for a reset of salaries. If the NHLPA wanted a longer term then they should have asked for it 7 years ago.

I can't dictate terms to my employer after I negotiate a deal. When my contract expires I can negotiate a new one. If the employer needs to change something they will and I can accept it or reject it. That's the way of business.

This isn't some 3rd world commie dictatorship. This is Canada and America where people have property rights. The owners own the league and its their business, not the players.

I'm willing to wait it out, cuz I cheer for the jersey and the logo on the front, not personalities who make more money than most people will see in a lifetime.

The owners risked their capital and resources to run the business and deserve a fair return. The NHLPA should have negotiated more revenue sharing the last time around if it was such a big deal to them.

This isn't even a real union. I don't see an set wage structure? I don't see any sharing of endorsement money. Why are guys on the 3rd and 4th lines paid less for the same kind of work?? Do they train less or work less? No. In fact I'd say the enforcers have the most dangerous and difficult job out there. Why aren't they getting more money? Where's it written that the top scorers should get paid more??

If this was a real union the top 6 players wouldn't be making 4 or 5 times or more than the 4th line guys. The guys on the 4th line put in the same time developing their skills as the guys on the 1st line. In any real union they'd get paid the same and share all the endorsement money equally.

When the average salary of 2.5Million is way more than most 3rd and 4th liners make you know the top 6 guys on any team are eating up all the dollars and the rest of the players are fighting for scraps. Where's the solidarity in that.

Before you start crapping all over the owners and the league you should take an economics or business class or two. Maybe you should give up your socialist/ commie thinking in the process.
- kaptaan

Bravo!

And profit sharing will change this how?
- Oilhab

They claim that they're tired of supporting the other teams. but regardless of what sort of deal is in place, if they keep buying tickets at the rate their going, prices will continue to go up. Only thing that 'might' help ticket prices at this point is a new team up there, but that likely would be just a temporary halt to increases as the two teams compete for the fan base, not any reduction.

So my point is, does it really matter where the money is going. Either it goes into the pockets of the owners, or it gets spread around to keep the NHL going. It certainly does not end up in the pockets of fans.

They claim that they're tired of supporting the other teams. but regardless of what sort of deal is in place, if they keep buying tickets at the rate their going, prices will continue to go up. Only thing that 'might' help ticket prices at this point is a new team up there, but that likely would be just a temporary halt to increases as the two teams compete for the fan base, not any reduction.

So my point is, does it really matter where the money is going. Either it goes into the pockets of the owners, or it gets spread around to keep the NHL going. It certainly does not end up in the pockets of fans.
- BleedBlueSTL

Atleast if it goes in the pocket of that teams owner, maybe it will eventaully make its way to the fans in the way of a new arena or whatever else, that's still better then paying florida to have a better team then you.

Totally in agreement with you....we are being forced to pay up for Bettman's bastards...this league needs a 4 team contraction...
- Philly1980

Your correct but don't tell those 3rd and 4th line players because 92 of them would be out of work not including their minor league affiliates....
How united would the NHLPA be then....Thank god the NHLPA can rely on the brain power of their high school diploma carrying card members...

You're ridiculous if you think a league without revenue sharing will result in lower prices. Prices are based on Supply and Demand. Demand is high in Toronto, but supply doesn't change. Your prices will continue to go up regardless, and your owners will continue to make huge profits while fielding an inferior team because they don't need to improve to 'win'
- BleedBlueSTL

I was talking about ticket prices....I could care a less what the ticket prices are....Supply and demand for those as well.
I was talking about contracting 4-6 teams and doing away with the salary cap..What's killing the league is the salary cap floor. The financially troubled teams can't reach the floor.

Atleast if it goes in the pocket of that teams owner, maybe it will eventaully make its way to the fans in the way of a new arena or whatever else, that's still better then paying florida to have a better team then you.
- Oilhab

But I think the point is that very little of the high prices is Toronto is the result of Revenue Sharing (I heard this morning that TO's exhibition season makes enough to cover their Revenue Sharing obligations).

Ticket prices in Toronto are completely the result of demand -- especially demand from corporate season ticket holders who can write off the cost of their tickets.

Send a message, Unfollow the NHL and the NHLPA and it's players on Twitter. It's an easy thing to do and sends a huge message.
Organize an unfollow campaign...It's easy.....I would but i don't care if they come back....Lots going on in my life to care...

But I think the point is that very little of the high prices is Toronto is the result of Revenue Sharing (I heard this morning that TO's exhibition season makes enough to cover their Revenue Sharing obligations).

Ticket prices in Toronto are completely the result of demand -- especially demand from corporate season ticket holders who can write off the cost of their tickets.
- Canada Cup

No doubt

Send a message, Unfollow the NHL and the NHLPA and it's players on Twitter. It's an easy thing to do and sends a huge message.
Organize an unfollow campaign...It's easy.....I would but i don't care if they come back....Lots going on in my life to care...
- tmlfan17

What if i'm not following either one now?

actually i feel like unfollowing anyone who retweets one of the Allan Walsh or other player biased tweets

What if i'm not following either one now?

actually i feel like unfollowing anyone who retweets one of the Allan Walsh or other player biased tweets
- Oilhab

I said I'm not organizing it.....Don't care what happens but if people out there are looking for an easy way to show their upset....Unfollow Eklund, NHL, Bob McKenzie, Darren Dreger everybody that has anything to do with hockey...
You can still get the info on the internet but the message sent is rather large

I was talking about ticket prices....I could care a less what the ticket prices are....Supply and demand for those as well.
I was talking about contracting 4-6 teams and doing away with the salary cap..What's killing the league is the salary cap floor. The financially troubled teams can't reach the floor.
- tmlfan17

The problem is what is raising the floor and how fast it is raising compared to the growth of the rest of the teams.

Contract 4-6 of the bottom teams won't make much difference, as those teams aren't making money anyways.

Prevent the Floor from rising too fast, kept it's growth connected to the growth of the majority of the teams instead of the top money makers and you make it easier for all the teams.

I said I'm not organizing it.....Don't care what happens but if people out there are looking for an easy way to show their upset....Unfollow Eklund, NHL, Bob McKenzie, Darren Dreger everybody that has anything to do with hockey...
You can still get the info on the internet but the message sent is rather large
- tmlfan17

Or just send them angry tweets

I was talking about ticket prices....I could care a less what the ticket prices are....Supply and demand for those as well.
I was talking about contracting 4-6 teams and doing away with the salary cap..What's killing the league is the salary cap floor. The financially troubled teams can't reach the floor.
- tmlfan17

I don't mind contracting (though I think starting with just 2 teams, while moving a couple others). But the salary cap is a great thing for any sport. A league where any team has a chance to win any game on any night, and advance to win it all is a great league. They just need a better way of calculating the cap and floor(if it needs to exist).

The problem is what is raising the floor and how fast it is raising compared to the growth of the rest of the teams.

Contract 4-6 of the bottom teams won't make much difference, as those teams aren't making money anyways.

Prevent the Floor from rising too fast, kept it's growth connected to the growth of the majority of the teams instead of the top money makers and you make it easier for all the teams.
- Oilhab

How about do away with the floor.... (No Cap) If a team chooses to pay $20 million they get the team they get with that $20 million. Obviously their team won't be very good but who am i to suggest how that owner runs his team...
Same when it comes to a team that chooses to pay $85 million.....They'll probably have some talent and as well they should...That organisation is probably doing a lot of things correctly so why shouldn't they be able to award their fans...
For the people that say well then we won't have parity....To that I say tough shiat....Life isn't fair, their are winners and losers.....THe NHL should be no different..

How about do away with the floor.... (No Cap) If a team chooses to pay $20 million they get the team they get with that $20 million. Obviously their team won't be very good but who am i to suggest how that owner runs his team...
Same when it comes to a team that chooses to pay $85 million.....They'll probably have some talent and as well they should...That organisation is probably doing a lot of things correctly so why shouldn't they be able to award their fans...
For the people that say well then we won't have parity....To that I say tough shiat....Life isn't fair, their are winners and losers.....THe NHL should be no different..
- tmlfan17

Getting rid of the floor will eventually make the cap meaningless

If one team is paying 85 mil and another 20 then what's the point.

Getting rid of the floor will eventually make the cap meaningless

If one team is paying 85 mil and another 20 then what's the point.
- Oilhab

That's the goal for me.....I'm a fan of the Leafs....I hate the cap...Why should I vote against my own interests.....That would make me a Liberal

That's the goal for me.....I'm a fan of the Leafs....I hate the cap...Why should I vote against my own interests.....That would make me a Liberal
- tmlfan17

No cap didn't help the leafs before, Lindros, Allison, Nolan to name a few.

The closest the leafs had to a good team was the Gilmour days, and that wasn't an extremely high paid team was it?

No cap didn't help the leafs before, Lindros, Allison, Nolan to name a few.

The closest the leafs had to a good team was the Gilmour days, and that wasn't an extremely high paid team was it?
- Oilhab

Lindros, Allison was with the salary cap.....
What makes Leafs fans mad is they never overspent....we're rarely the highest spending team.
Then the rest of league shouldn't worry if there's a salary cap.

In response to 1) Look at the list of team's profits. Most of those teams in the bottom were expansion teams, or teams that were moved from more traditional markets.
- Cimo

Expansion teams tend to suck early on. They also have up-front costs in developing and retaining a fan base that established teams do not. Throw in perpetual sucktitude courtesy of incompetent management [Columbus, Atlanta] and you have a recipe for yearly losses. That's not strictly a lack of fan support causing it, the lack of fan support is a symptom of the problem. That said, Anaheim has been decent and Florida was great until they went into the toilet for 10 years. San Jose has been strong, Tampa has been strong [save the Koules/Barrie disaster] no one above the 49th parallel complains about Ottawa, and no one is complaining about Minnesota or Colorado.

That leaves Phoenix [yes, it has problems], Carolina [Karmanos wanted the team in Raleigh, and there's no way it was going to survive in Hartford], Atlanta [gone to Winnipeg; see above], Columbus [see above] and Nashville [which everyone hates but is actually making it]. If you really want to get into profits as the measure, then rip away at the Islanders [40 years in the NHL, has gone into the toilet courtesy of a crappy arena and crappy ownership/management] and St. Louis [perpetual struggles due to crappy owners, a crappy lease, and a crappy tax setup] - and I don't see anyone saying "get rid of the Blues."

2) As an owner, why wouldn't you take your business to somewhere that makes you MORE money?
- Cimo

If I can make $5 million in location B instead of losing $5 million in location A, but it costs me $125 million to move, does it really make sense to do it - especially if I don't think I'm going to hang on to the team long enough to recoup that money spent? Everyone in the "move teams" camp misses this simple point.

3) If an owner wants to lose $25 Million a year, I say it is all the business of the other owners, since with equalization payments, that money is coming out of their pockets. If they are OK with losing all of this money, they why are they crying poor and locking out the players?
- Cimo

Some owners are morons. Some owners are trying to break even and can't. One must carefully distinguish between the two when possible [though at times they are one and the same]. If an owner is trying to be responsible and is still losing money, I have no problem with him getting revenue sharing money; if an owner is spending $70 million a year on player salaries and losing money as a result, I do have a problem with him turning to the rest of the league and saying, "please give me money so I don't have to be smart."

4) You're right, the semantics of relocating are gigantic and complicated. However, there is no pressure to relocate due to equalization payments. Why not use equalization money to help owners move their teams to more profitable markets, thus helping individual markets and strengthening the NHL as a whole?
- Cimo

Because as we've seen argued here, "more profits" = "the players deserve more money" and we're back to fighting in 6-8 years. The players would love to have higher revenues, especially since if teams lose money in the process it's not their problem. If you're suggesting revenue sharing be changed to induce/force teams to move, it's not going to happen. The Flyers are not going to pay $20 million to help Phoenix move to Hamilton and not get a cut of the additional revenues [and possible profit] generated ... and Phoenix isn't about to volunteer to share that with the rest of the league.

Lindros, Allison was with the salary cap.....
What makes Leafs fans mad is they never overspent....we're rarely the highest spending team.
Then the rest of league shouldn't worry if there's a salary cap.
- tmlfan17

Oh right it was the first year of the cap, my bad

The League may not be able to force a team to move but they have certainly shown the ability and willingness to prevent sales that would lead to a team moving. They have gone to extremes to keep the NHL safe from Hamilton
- Canada Cup

The Hamilton discussion is a different topic. I can't [and won't] comment on the owners motives there. That said, it's the league's right to veto a sale and/or a relocation at its whim. Certainly, it vetoed the sale of teams to one specific individual [no, I won't mention Balsillie by name] because said individual had demonstrated an unwillingness to follow established league rules and procedures regarding the purchase and relocation of any franchise.

In retrospect, denying the sale might not have been a terrible thing.

Totally in agreement with you....we are being forced to pay up for Bettman's bastards...this league needs a 4 team contraction...
- Philly1980

The league shouldn't have expanded in the first place... Contraction would cost too much money though... These markets should be relocated for the time being. You have 4-6 teams that are constant money suckers... The experiment is over, it failed, move them.

The league shouldn't have expanded in the first place... Contraction would cost too much money though... These markets should be relocated for the time being. You have 4-6 teams that are constant money suckers... The experiment is over, it failed, move them.
- laughs2907

I agree, 6 teams was the ideal.

Your correct but don't tell those 3rd and 4th line players because 92 of them would be out of work not including their minor league affiliates....
How united would the NHLPA be then....Thank god the NHLPA can rely on the brain power of their high school diploma carrying card members...
- tmlfan17

Not all of them would be 3rd or 4th line players though, because a lot of these guys are role players that are needed. Some roles would lose their jobs, some skilled players would lose their jobs etc... The structure of the league wouldn't change (there would still be grinders, energy players, skilled players) they'd just be less watered down.