Wrong, this has more to do with teams like the Islanders/Blue Jackers operating as a woe is me franchise while teams like the Rangers/Flyers make moves to get better. The Islanders a complete embarassment and they make it harder and harder every year to root for them.
- latorrem1

There is a huge difference in resources between a tremendously profitable owner like Ed Snider (who played a large role in putting the Isles in the situation they're in today) and Charles Wang. This is why Nashville may have a difficult time matching the Weber offer despite their promises to do so. Few teams can afford $56 million over three years.

In the case of Nash, the NYR were one of his coices. do you honestly think he was going to accept a trade to come here? You don't think the isles would have offered say Nielsen, Cizikas and Kabanov for Nash if they could? The Isles are in a unique situation that can't be compared to any of the other teams in the league right now. They certainly weren't going to be coming home with Weber or Nash no matter what.

I pretty much said the same thing a few threads ago. I also would have liked Weight to head to Bridgeport and try his hand at coaching there. His NHL experience would have been a great tool to teach the kids down there what it would take to make it at the NHL level all the while giving him the experience for the job we know he's eventually going to have. Meanwhile, Murray, Guy, even Bill Barber would be decent.
- keaner17

I agree Doug should have gotten the Bridge job and I would be very surprised if Murray, Guy, or Barber would not give the Isles a shot. I have also given Charles a pass for not having a high payroll I cannot give him or Garth a pass on the coaching or scouting personel decisions they have made. There are things they can do to better the situation. They play into the likes of Kate Murray's hands when they make some of these bad decisions.

I wasn't really trying to nitpick or get on your case. Just saying that he didn't play a complete season and his stats, while a step down from the all-star season the year before, weren't actually that far off his average production.

I do, however, think that we will be measurably worse without him on the blueline. Part (to anyone reading, please remember I said part) of the reason for the lack of offense last year was a shortage of defenseman that could move the puck. Streit and Hamonic could do it well, Mac decently. Jurcina, Staios, Eaton, and Mottau were all completely inept in that category. Offense starts with a strong first pass and/or the ability to have a defenseman carry the puck over the defending blueline. When half or more of your defenseman are below average in that area, it puts far too much pressure on the forwards to try and do it themselves. Lubo can do that at a good level and would add a huge dynamic to this team.
- eichiefs9

I didnt take it as nit picking. And no offense take.


I'm going to have to take your word on that because if you remember. (I dont expect you to by any means )

When we acquired him for a #2 rd pick. I asked whether Viz was a good deal for us since I knew absolutely nothing about him.

I do agree after hearing what you and others said about him that he improves our Blue Line.

When I spoke of making a measureable difference to the Isles. Its was in regards to us making the PO. I dont believe we make the PO this yr with or without him.

But yes, you are correct. His talents give us a definite upgrade in the defensive department.

I may not be explaining myself well today. Made a 14 hr round trip drive to Virginia yesterday. Kinda run down today. Brain is a little fuzzier than normal

as do you...."Lubo was good because he's a definite upgrade to any of the guys from last year. But also a negative because he's in his later 30's, maybe only a yr left in his tank and had a very sub par year last yr."
- LetsGoIsles

And as echiefs wrote before... He's averaged a shade over 42 points per yr. 26 is a hell of a way away from an average of 42 for a defensemen.
You want to argue we should have 5 or 6 Lubo's, I hope you're going to fight for a better team up front, a better system and a better coaching staff because his down years were in Edmonton when they were competing with us for lottery picks. And he was years younger then. Again, I originally wrote he had positives and negatives. But to try to prove your point by bringing up Isle D man stats.

Agree that we now have a large hole to fill because he was better then our D corp last yr but he was a rental for this yr anyhow, any way you to cut it.

There were other names...uh...ok. Now you have to ask, were they going to come here. Would they have chosen the isles over the destination they landed with?
- keaner17

Debbie Downer, is there a point to your remarks or are you just looking to pick a fight?
Or do you just want to cry about how nobody wants to come here?
I say, if we had a better coach(who's fault is THAT?) won some more games and made the playoffs in the last few years, we could attract better players.

But our coach sucks, our GM is only good at finding cast-offs or cronies to play here and he can't make a trade of any substance and our Owner is rich & clueless(lethal combo).
Rangers just got Nash for a steal. YEAH, I know we weren't on his list but if Slats can pull off a trade why can't Garth - we have similar assets. Really, who do you want to blame? The Arena? Come back with something better than arguing my point. It's easy to criticize. What's YOUR idea. Would love to hear it.

Debbie Downer, is there a point to your remarks or are you just looking to pick a fight?
Or do you just want to cry about how nobody wants to come here?
I say, if we had a better coach(who's fault is THAT?) won some more games and made the playoffs in the last few years, we could attract better players.

But our coach sucks, our GM is only good at finding cast-offs or cronies to play here and he can't make a trade of any substance and our Owner is rich & clueless(lethal combo).
Rangers just got Nash for a steal. YEAH, I know we weren't on his list but if Slats can pull off a trade why can't Garth - we have similar assets. Really, who do you want to blame? The Arena? Come back with something better than arguing my point. It's easy to criticize. What's YOUR idea. Would love to hear it.
- jmo16

Big difference between the Rangers and Islanders: players around hockey would love to go to the Rangers. They are worth the Rangers giving up assets for (or in the case of Nash, worth giving up bodies for). Nobody wants to come to Long Island. Even if the Isles put together a trade for, lets just throw a name out here, Bobby Ryan, odds are Ryan would want no part of Long Island. It would be a waste of assets. Its not worth moving a bunch of assets for a veteran player who wants no part of your team.

With Visnovsky, it was a solid trade because it was only a second round pick going the other way and will lilkely be headed back to the NYI once Visnovsky wins his grievance.

Truth is, until this team starts winning games and making the playoffs, nobody is going to want to play for them, even if they get a new building and sign a long-term committment here or somewhere else. The team has a real bad image around hockey. You can debate all you want if the image is deserving or not, but you can't argue that the negative image is out there. Phoenix has no problem attracting players because they've been decent and competitive the past few years, despite the unsettled ownership and relocation issues.

As fans, were relegated to waiting (and hoping) that this "core" develops into enough of a winner without outside help so that it is attractive to outsidel veteran players when the team is truly ready to contend (and hopefully playing in the Barclays Center under a relatively long-term lease).

And as echiefs wrote before... He's averaged a shade over 42 points per yr. 26 is a hell of a way away from an average of 42 for a defensemen.
You want to argue we should have 5 or 6 Lubo's, I hope you're going to fight for a better team up front, a better system and a better coaching staff because his down years were in Edmonton when they were competing with us for lottery picks. And he was years younger then. Again, I originally wrote he had positives and negatives. But to try to prove your point by bringing up Isle D man stats.

Agree that we now have a large hole to fill because he was better then our D corp last yr but he was a rental for this yr anyhow, any way you to cut it.
- brodydog29

Quality rentals are what we need though...good vets that can take primary roles on this team and set good examples for one, two or three years until the kids are ready to step into those roles.

Debbie Downer, is there a point to your remarks or are you just looking to pick a fight?
Or do you just want to cry about how nobody wants to come here?
I say, if we had a better coach(who's fault is THAT?) won some more games and made the playoffs in the last few years, we could attract better players.

But our coach sucks, our GM is only good at finding cast-offs or cronies to play here and he can't make a trade of any substance and our Owner is rich & clueless(lethal combo).
Rangers just got Nash for a steal. YEAH, I know we weren't on his list but if Slats can pull off a trade why can't Garth - we have similar assets. Really, who do you want to blame? The Arena? Come back with something better than arguing my point. It's easy to criticize. What's YOUR idea. Would love to hear it.
- jmo16

The arena is only a part of it... can you guarantee the team will be in NY in 3 years?

Why would you want to make a commitment to a team that does not want to spend money until they know if they will have a home in 3 years.

Plus you have a chance to have to uproot your family to Quebec, Kansas City, Hamilton or maybe even Toronto?

Wang will not spend any extra money until he has a commitment from the local politicians... and we know that will not happen.

Quality rentals are what we need though...good vets that can take primary roles on this team and set good examples for one, two or three years until the kids are ready to step into those roles.
- UIF

I agree and am all for that. But my opinion is that the "rental" needs to want to be here and happy with his situation on the team.
An unhappy vet won't provide what they want

Debbie Downer, is there a point to your remarks or are you just looking to pick a fight?
Or do you just want to cry about how nobody wants to come here?
I say, if we had a better coach(who's fault is THAT?) won some more games and made the playoffs in the last few years, we could attract better players.

But our coach sucks, our GM is only good at finding cast-offs or cronies to play here and he can't make a trade of any substance and our Owner is rich & clueless(lethal combo).
Rangers just got Nash for a steal. YEAH, I know we weren't on his list but if Slats can pull off a trade why can't Garth - we have similar assets. Really, who do you want to blame? The Arena? Come back with something better than arguing my point. It's easy to criticize. What's YOUR idea. Would love to hear it.
- jmo16

And I say your speculation is nothing more than just that. If we made the playoffs the last few years we wouldn't even be having this discussion as we'd be a good bit more satisfied with the teams present roster.

As for your being upset that I dared to criticize your point, you should probably be aware that if you're going to post your 'point' on a messageboard, it might...juuuuuuust mayyyyyybe, be subject to debate. The "they did it, why can't we' whining doesn't flush simply because it provides no scenarios. Anyone can just complain that our GM hasn't made trades without having to provide any substance to their complaint, but it's funny how they suddenly are at a loss for sound suggestions when pressed to say how they'd do it better. Columbus got fleeced due to their desperation to reach a conclusion with Nash. But just because they made a deal doesn't mean that 29 other teams should be able to do the same.

Any solution I come up with can be shot down in my own mind before I even post it. Doan? Nope, he wants a title and isn't coming here. Semin? Big maybe and likely wants in with either Pitts, Detroit or a winner. Trade for a big name player? No thanks, I haven't played EA sports Hockey in years and trades don't happen just by printing the guys name on a jersey.

Not to mentioin, we don't know whether Garth's been on the phone or not. Maybe everyone's asking for either Tavares or Strome. I'd prefer to stand pat in that case.

The arena is only a part of it... can you guarantee the team will be in NY in 3 years?

Why would you want to make a commitment to a team that dos not want to spend money until they know if they will have a home in 3 years.

Plus you have a chance to have to uproot your family to Quebec, Kansas City, Hamilton or maybe even Toronto?

Wang will not spend any extra money until he has a commitment from the local politicians... and we know that will not happen.
- jimmc7722

Where's the proof that the Isles will spend if they are stable with location?

The arena is only a part of it... can you guarantee the team will be in NY in 3 years?

Why would you want to make a commitment to a team that does not want to spend money until they know if they will have a home in 3 years.

Plus you have a chance to have to uproot your family to Quebec, Kansas City, Hamilton or maybe even Toronto?

Wang will not spend any extra money until he has a commitment from the local politicians... and we know that will not happen.
- jimmc7722

Every year the Coyotes sign free agents. Just saying

I agree and am all for that. But my opinion is that the "rental" needs to want to be here and happy with his situation on the team.
An unhappy vet won't provide what they want
- brodydog29

Eh, he doesn't want to come here, and he's doing what he can to avoid it. I don't blame the guy. But if this grievance doesn't break his way and instead of defecting to the KHL or whatever, he chooses to put on his best face, report to the Isles, and see what happens, like Nabby did, then he can still be a positive influence on the team and the players. If Vis conducts himself like a professional, prepares properly for every game, and takes care of business on the ice, similar-styled players like Donovan and deHaan can learn a thing or two from him.

Every year the Coyotes sign free agents. Just saying
- Vukota

black magic

Eh, he doesn't want to come here, and he's doing what he can to avoid it. I don't blame the guy. But if this grievance doesn't break his way and instead of defecting to the KHL or whatever, he chooses to put on his best face, report to the Isles, and see what happens, like Nabby did, then he can still be a positive influence on the team and the players. If Vis conducts himself like a professional, prepares properly for every game, and takes care of business on the ice, similar-styled players like Donovan and deHaan can learn a thing or two from him.
- UIF

I'll agree with that if thats how it plays out. A lot of ifs on this team already though

Hey Garth show some balls and trade for Ryan... If Viznovski doesn't want to play here trade him...I'm sure Detroit will take him...

Hey Garth show some balls and trade for Ryan... If Viznovski doesn't want to play here trade him...I'm sure Detroit will take him...
- kear20

After I heard about the Rags getting Nash I thought the Isles better get Ryan. I did not care who we were giving up. After the day the Isles had and the Nash trade I was not happy and just wanted Ryan.

Well at least the Yanks got Ichiro from Seattle...small personal victory.

Well at least the Yanks got Ichiro from Seattle...small personal victory.
- eichiefs9

For you and me both

Big difference between the Rangers and Islanders: players around hockey would love to go to the Rangers. They are worth the Rangers giving up assets for (or in the case of Nash, worth giving up bodies for). Nobody wants to come to Long Island. Even if the Isles put together a trade for, lets just throw a name out here, Bobby Ryan, odds are Ryan would want no part of Long Island. It would be a waste of assets. Its not worth moving a bunch of assets for a veteran player who wants no part of your team.

With Visnovsky, it was a solid trade because it was only a second round pick going the other way and will lilkely be headed back to the NYI once Visnovsky wins his grievance.

Truth is, until this team starts winning games and making the playoffs, nobody is going to want to play for them, even if they get a new building and sign a long-term committment here or somewhere else. The team has a real bad image around hockey. You can debate all you want if the image is deserving or not, but you can't argue that the negative image is out there. Phoenix has no problem attracting players because they've been decent and competitive the past few years, despite the unsettled ownership and relocation issues.

As fans, were relegated to waiting (and hoping) that this "core" develops into enough of a winner without outside help so that it is attractive to outsidel veteran players when the team is truly ready to contend (and hopefully playing in the Barclays Center under a relatively long-term lease).
- Jethro09

So, if the rebuild is REALLY the route this team is intent on taking, why the crap don't we have the BEST available coach out there to teach our developing core? How much more does a better coach cost the team? $500k more? $1M more? For an organization losing tens of millions a year, unable to attract FA players to make them better immediately or via trade, what element could we possibly employ to help speed the process? We have a coach whose greatest asset is the economical nature of his contract and willingness to do what he's told. His predecessor was also unproven at the NHL level and inexpensive. The guy before him was ousted because he stood up for himself and wouldn't toe the line - but also an outcast and inexpensive.

I don't get it.

What IS this team's strategy? Hope the drafted players collectively become a powerhouse regardless of the coach(es) behind the bench? Cosmic alignment?
A rash of season-ending injuries throughout the rest of the Atlantic conference?

Because, in spite of what we are told, this team hasn't and isn't delivering on any of the areas we are told they are heading and many of the moves and decisions contradict what the mouthpieces spew.

I own my own business and am very aware of the money I spend and what I get back for it. Be it the merchandise I sell, the salary I pay employees, the value of the work they do and the feedback of my customers I serve. When any of those elements are out of whack or under-preforming, I make changes. Adapt or die. It's very simple.

And if this team were my business, there'd be balls in a sling and people sending out resumes on their way to the unemployment office. They may be fooling a lot of you out there and fooling themselves but they're not fooling me anymore. They deserve no excuses or pity. They have only themselves to blame. Even if shovels were in the ground, we'd still have issues making this team better. It's not Kate Murray's fault - hell, we even have to say it's no longer Milbury's fault (tho I love recanting all his antics) so stop making excuses for the fools who are trying to fool you.
(jethro - I am piggybacking your post - not directing this at you)

After I heard about the Rags getting Nash I thought the Isles better get Ryan. I did not care who we were giving up. After the day the Isles had and the Nash trade I was not happy and just wanted Ryan.
- ses111

The Islanders would look a hell of a lot better if they had Ryan on the first line.

So, if the rebuild is REALLY the route this team is intent on taking, why the crap don't we have the BEST available coach out there to teach our developing core? How much more does a better coach cost the team? $500k more? $1M more? For an organization losing tens of millions a year, unable to attract FA players to make them better immediately or via trade, what element could we possibly employ to help speed the process? We have a coach whose greatest asset is the economical nature of his contract and willingness to do what he's told. His predecessor was also unproven at the NHL level and inexpensive. The guy before him was ousted because he stood up for himself and wouldn't toe the line - but also an outcast and inexpensive.

I don't get it.

What IS this team's strategy? Hope the drafted players collectively become a powerhouse regardless of the coach(es) behind the bench? Cosmic alignment?
A rash of season-ending injuries throughout the rest of the Atlantic conference?

Because, in spite of what we are told, this team hasn't and isn't delivering on any of the areas we are told they are heading and many of the moves and decisions contradict what the mouthpieces spew.

I own my own business and am very aware of the money I spend and what I get back for it. Be it the merchandise I sell, the salary I pay employees, the value of the work they do and the feedback of my customers I serve. When any of those elements are out of whack or under-preforming, I make changes. Adapt or die. It's very simple.

And if this team were my business, there'd be balls in a sling and people sending out resumes on their way to the unemployment office. They may be fooling a lot of you out there and fooling themselves but they're not fooling me anymore. They deserve no excuses or pity. They have only themselves to blame. Even if shovels were in the ground, we'd still have issues making this team better. It's not Kate Murray's fault - hell, we even have to say it's no longer Milbury's fault (tho I love recanting all his antics) so stop making excuses for the fools who are trying to fool you.
(jethro - I am piggybacking your post - not directing this at you)
- jmo16

Bravo. No way I could have said it better. This is why there is a Wolfpack. It's not so much not being able to trade for a star player or having a big payroll. It's Wang doing the least amount of work possible and not caring enough to have a real coach.

The Islanders would look a hell of a lot better if they had Ryan on the first line.
- kear20

I'm glad I'm not the GM because half the team would have been traded for Ryan after this Rag trade. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.

i responded:

"but what does that have to do with anything??? why are we comparing what he was to what he is now??? comparing apples and oranges.

all i care about is what is he VS. what do we have??? and quite frankly what he is now is ALOT better than most of what he have. so did he have a personal "subpar" season? compared to the 2010 season yes. did he have a subpar season compared to what WE should interested in?? hell no!!! and in fact, id take 5 players with lubomir visnovsky subpar 2011 seasons stats for 2012 season in a heartbeat"
- LetsGoIsles

I read your response.

I Wrote a lengthy reply.

Then HB website crashed on me about an hr or so ago. Along with my Post.

(Anyone else experience that?)

So rather than sum it all up again, I'll just say that I didnt compare Viz to anyone or even to his previous seasons.

I agreed with The Chief that Viz had an off yr. Sub Par for HIM. I believe he still can be an effective "D" man. Only because I value some of the opinions on this site. I know squat about Viz.

And You were the one who posted the comparison to Viz with that group of misfits that made up the Isles "D" last season.

In turn I responded that you are comparing Viz to CRAP.

So in conclusion. You are 100% correct in stating that Viz is an up grade to the Crap we Suited up last season.

Now can we put this to rest. I'm really tired today.

I'm glad I'm not the GM because half the team would have been traded for Ryan after this Rag trade. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.
- ses111

If you're trading half the team for Ryan then I'm glad you're not the GM too.