Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre
- bmeltzer

It will always bother me till Shero gets in & I never saw him coach.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre
- bmeltzer

Great job today, Bill. Great read. Those numbers seem staggering. It amazes me how much more we are spending than the next guy. You would think at that cost we would have a defender to spare for Ryan if that was what Anaheim was wanting. It seems Mes and Corbie are the names being tossed about. But from the looks of it, MAB Abe Gus may be just as valuable due to their lack of cost. We may be hitting their window here shortly where we get the most return on them vs. their actual cost.

Hi Bill,

Great read. I think this article really sums up the problem with the Flyers draft and why most graded it a C. We don't have to rehash the draft the best player mentality here. And maybe Laughton becomes Henrique and Richards and Madden all rolled into one, and Stolie the Goalie lives up to the hype in his own mind.

But in a heavily defensive-laden draft, and considering everything you just wrote, to not draft Maata and Thrower or someone else they valued higher at D will clearly keep this team in a cap bind for years to come.

It will always bother me till Shero gets in & I never saw him coach.
- ob18

anyone know for sure if timmonen will be ready for the season, i thought it was reported that he wouldnt be ready till november, if so how much cap releif would that bring?

Hi Bill,

Great read. I think this article really sums up the problem with the Flyers draft and why most graded it a C. We don't have to rehash the draft the best player mentality here. And maybe Laughton becomes Henrique and Richards and Madden all rolled into one, and Stolie the Goalie lives up to the hype in his own mind.

But in a heavily defensive-laden draft, and considering everything you just wrote, to not draft Maata and Thrower or someone else they valued higher at D will clearly keep this team in a cap bind for years to come.
- TheGreat28

They drafted four defensemen. Sure, they weren't in the first two rounds, but even then, they'd still be prospects that likely won't make an impact for 2-4 years.

Bill,

great stuff about Shero and I completely agree... the "kook" should be in the Hall!

about the D, it should be an organizational priority to do a 180 on their approach to drafting and developing dmen. they've been an utter failure for close to 2 decades and I believe it effects their drafting strategy and as you comprehensively demonstrated, their cap situation.

Hi Bill,

Great read. I think this article really sums up the problem with the Flyers draft and why most graded it a C. We don't have to rehash the draft the best player mentality here. And maybe Laughton becomes Henrique and Richards and Madden all rolled into one, and Stolie the Goalie lives up to the hype in his own mind.

But in a heavily defensive-laden draft, and considering everything you just wrote, to not draft Maata and Thrower or someone else they valued higher at D will clearly keep this team in a cap bind for years to come.
- TheGreat28

Flyers have proved time after time they can't find success with Dmen in the first two rounds. As much as I hate to say it why continue to bother? Take the best guy available and go from there. There will always be free agents and trades. As long as the cabinet is full I personally don't care how we got them.

G's 5Mil discount allowed us to make a competitive team. Otherwise we would be screwed...

agree on the $$$ behind the blue line, Pronger out & Carle (if re-signed), is about even $ wise, guess the uncertainty on Kimmo's readiness & effectiveness creates the need for an extra reliable player.

Still seems like quite a bit much considering we have a higher priced goalie, which could affect us acquiring some sort of sniper for the top line & PP.

Also hearing Carle wants to test the FA waters, don't know the truth in this

Hi Bill,

Great read. I think this article really sums up the problem with the Flyers draft and why most graded it a C. We don't have to rehash the draft the best player mentality here. And maybe Laughton becomes Henrique and Richards and Madden all rolled into one, and Stolie the Goalie lives up to the hype in his own mind.

But in a heavily defensive-laden draft, and considering everything you just wrote, to not draft Maata and Thrower or someone else they valued higher at D will clearly keep this team in a cap bind for years to come.
- TheGreat28

who did you have higher? i had thrower a bit higher on my board

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre
- bmeltzer

I'm sorry but I'm okay with trading young talent like Cousins, Laughton and Gustufsson if it means we get better somehow. We have young talent in Schenn and Couturier. Giroux should be good to go and should only be getting better for the next 10-15 years. Sooner or later, we're going to need to re-sign Giroux long term and to big bucks.

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.

The flyers philosophy when it comes to dmen is not working and I am hard pressed to understand why they would not emulate what successful teams do.
Is it a scouting issue? Is it a training/coaching issue?
Does their lack of patience hurt them?
It's not like the flyers haven't drafted dmen or goalies in their history they just have a poor track record of success.
Being able to identify talent and how it might translate to the NHL has to be the best and most important tool for an NHL team.
Drafting successfully gives a team so many more option than signing FA's to solidify weaknesses.
With a plethora of young talent they could be used to trade for other players, draft picks or to stabilize cap implications with players on entry level deals.
IMO this is the flyers biggest weakness.

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.
- MJL

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre
- bmeltzer

Considering the injuries and key guys (Pronger and Timonen) done or almost done, I don't think it's wise to be trading away from the blue line.

After Kimmo's contract is off the books next season, the % of available funds allocated to the blue line will start to even out (assuming you don't spend his entire $6.33 mil cap hit on a replacement).

If you trade a guy like Meszaros, you could head into the '13-'14 season with only Carle (assuming he's re-signed), Coburn, Schenn and Grossman. Not exactly a tremendous top-4.

Considering the injuries and key guys (Pronger and Timonen) done or almost done, I don't think it's wise to be trading away from the blue line.

After Kimmo's contract is off the books next season, the % of available funds allocated to the blue line will start to even out (assuming you don't spend his entire $6.33 mil cap hit on a replacement).

If you trade a guy like Meszaros, you could head into the '13-'14 season with only Carle (assuming he's re-signed), Coburn, Schenn and Grossman. Not exactly a tremendous top-4.
- bradleyc4

Yep, you have to look long term and for the future.

who did you have higher? i had thrower a bit higher on my board
- FlyerMike18

I was actually fine with Maata and Thrower. Thrower went after their second round pick, so they could have had both.

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.
- MJL

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.
- MJL

I agree. Leave the D alone.

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.
- MJL

Exactly. If Lilja and Gustaffson were their 3rd pair, everyone would be complaining that they don't spend enough of defense.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: D spending, Shero, Gostisbehre
- bmeltzer

Unfortunately, looks like Shero won't ever get in. I really hope that Lindros gets in in the comng years, but I really think it's 50/50 at best.

One thing I will note is that if Sundin gets in so easily, then Lindros should make it. I know Sundin played many years in the centre of the hockey universe, but, like Lindros, Sundin never won a cup, Also never won a Hart trophy (Lindros did), and as far as I can remember, Sundin never played even in the SCF.

Lindros was a dominant force from I'd say 93-2000. He had crazy PPG and was the perfect meld of power and skill. He'd be absolutely unstoppable in todays no interference game (I look back at those playoffs in 97 for example againt the Rangers and he'd basically have people draped all over him without calls).

In short, if Mats gets in, Lindros should be a lock and it's kinda embarrassing that it seems Sundin gets in first most likely due to the fact that he played in TO.

They drafted four defensemen. Sure, they weren't in the first two rounds, but even then, they'd still be prospects that likely won't make an impact for 2-4 years.
- jd342

As Bill says, none of those guys are projected higher than 5-6th d-man. Absolutely one of them could turn into something, but they'd have a better chance of getting a 3-4 at least with Maata and Thrower or others in the first two rounds.

Even if the Flyers re-sign Carle, they will still have over 6M in Cap space to work with. So I don't see what the issue is. So what's the solution. Does anyone want to trade Coburn, so they can play Bourdon. Coburn is in his prime and getting better and better. Trade Meszaros to play Bourdon. Meszaros may have the best skillset of all the defenseman on the Flyers. He's shown in the past that he can play at a high level. We read talk about limiting Timonen's minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Best way to do is to have the depth the currently have. Trade Coburn or Meszaros, or don't re-sign Carle. And one injury and suddendly your 3rd pair is Bourdon, and Lilja, or another Rookie. Or one of those players playing on a higher pair.
- MJL

You couldn't be more right but for me, the Flyers have always been known to have a dangerous top line. Having an actual number 1 goaltender, 6 Dmen who are all worth 2 million plus each (one actually right handed) and not having that sexy top line is a different dynamic to me. We still have time to get a great top line together but unless Parise agrees to come here for a 6 million cap hit (it is possible) shouldn't we make a deal of some sort? I don't want to give players away just to give them away. I like Meszaros, I like Voracek but these guys are the guys I'm looking to when it comes to more dealing. I don't want to trade them, they're who I'm willing to give up if it means getting better. Coburn I wouldn't even consider moving.