Jeremy Laura: Since Yzerman came to town and odd praise circulating for Dubas

Cholowski, Mantha, Svechnikov, Zadina, all are Hollands' picks/mistakes, they needed clearing out with Mantha being a maybe, but the 2 picks for him might pan out yet. The first was partial payment for Cossa, and the 2nd was for Dmitri Buchelnikov.

OK, better team offensively except for the last 3 weeks, and the defense and goalie situation needs a lot of help. Get rid of Huso and Reimer and put Lyon in the AHL where he belongs or trade him too. He may be an acceptable BU to a new starter such as Spencer Knight, Elvis, Gibson, Markstom. Then buy out Holl, use Petry as a 7-8th defender and get 2 better RD, DeMelo, Pesce, Matt Roy, Sean Walker, Alexandre Carrier, even Lyubushkin.

Bringing in a few better defensemen will definitely help but IMO a lot of the blame for the bad team defense falls on the forwards. As a group they are awful defensively.

Yzerman has to stop with the overpayments in free agency. Copp, Holl, Chiarot. The wings can't sign his way out of this. The way out has always been through the draft.

Get Edvinsson up here. Hopefully Sandin-Pellika gets here sooner.

Hopefully Cossa/Augustine. One of them works out.

Bringing in a few better defensemen will definitely help but IMO a lot of the blame for the bad team defense falls on the forwards. As a group they are awful defensively.
- Sven22

A couple of them are just pylons out there , Petry, Chiarot.

A couple of them are just pylons out there , Petry, Chiarot.
- wingz4life

I'm certainly not excusing bad play from defenders. Just pointing out that more often than not they're getting no help whatsoever from the forwards (who are also probably responsible for getting them caught in a bad spot in the first place). Seider is a genuinely good defender and even he's utterly overwhelmed out there. Team defense isn't (just) a Petry/Chiarot problem, it's an entire-roster-and-coaching-staff problem.

Bringing in a few better defensemen will definitely help but IMO a lot of the blame for the bad team defense falls on the forwards. As a group they are awful defensively.
- Sven22

Agreed. We saw some improvement around January in team D but it fell off horribly. Centers especially need to be 200 ft

Yzerman has to stop with the overpayments in free agency. Copp, Holl, Chiarot. The wings can't sign his way out of this. The way out has always been through the draft.

Get Edvinsson up here. Hopefully Sandin-Pellika gets here sooner.

Hopefully Cossa/Augustine. One of them works out.
- wingz4life

I’ll only make this argument. More than one cup has been won with a team that has essentially built up through trades and free agents. Vegas has certainly brought in some key players. In the new era, you need to draft well but a healthy chunk of the roster can be brought in. The three you mentioned, definitely. Copp is doing good work defensively but I don’t like the tag at all.

Detroits drafting was awful under Holland. I seem to recall a few people saying that all along.

But it's still awful. Detroit picked Seider at 6. Then they had 3 picks in round 2 and an early 3rd. All 4 of those picks appear to be wasted.

Same thing in 2020. Raymond at 4. Then three picks in round 2 and two more in round 3. Wallinder, Niederbach, Hanas, Sebrango, Viro. Looks like 5 more misses.

I could keep going. Yzerman did well to gather draft capital but we have almost nothing to show for it. Other teams are finding good young cheap players in these rounds. Brock Faber, Evangelista, Peterka, Cuylle, Hoglander, Spence, Kochetkov. We have nothing.

The franchise is doomed unless you can start finding talent outside of round 1.

Detroits drafting was awful under Holland. I seem to recall a few people saying that all along.

But it's still awful. Detroit picked Seider at 6. Then they had 3 picks in round 2 and an early 3rd. All 4 of those picks appear to be wasted.

Same thing in 2020. Raymond at 4. Then three picks in round 2 and two more in round 3. Wallinder, Niederbach, Hanas, Sebrango, Viro. Looks like 5 more misses.

I could keep going. Yzerman did well to gather draft capital but we have almost nothing to show for it. Other teams are finding good young cheap players in these rounds. Brock Faber, Evangelista, Peterka, Cuylle, Hoglander, Spence, Kochetkov. We have nothing.

The franchise is doomed unless you can start finding talent outside of round 1.
- HockeyBuzzed

this is a good point

Detroits drafting was awful under Holland. I seem to recall a few people saying that all along.

But it's still awful. Detroit picked Seider at 6. Then they had 3 picks in round 2 and an early 3rd. All 4 of those picks appear to be wasted.

Same thing in 2020. Raymond at 4. Then three picks in round 2 and two more in round 3. Wallinder, Niederbach, Hanas, Sebrango, Viro. Looks like 5 more misses.

I could keep going. Yzerman did well to gather draft capital but we have almost nothing to show for it. Other teams are finding good young cheap players in these rounds. Brock Faber, Evangelista, Peterka, Cuylle, Hoglander, Spence, Kochetkov. We have nothing.

The franchise is doomed unless you can start finding talent outside of round 1.
- HockeyBuzzed

I don’t think they’re “doomed”. I know we disagree on the amount of time it takes for a player to develop. Seider was ready to roll. Raymond came in quickly. Edvinsson will be here next year. Mazur was supposed to have a shot at the main roster but injury kept him off. He’s picking up the pace in GR. Sandin Pelikka (before injured) was getting a lot of positive press. We’ll see how he turns out. In the end, we’re seeing how cups are bought with free agents, LTIR, and veterans who take discounts. Vegas was completely built on other people’s draft picks and have paid for elite talent to come in. If they end up with everyone healthy they’ll be well over the cap. Florida has paid to bring in some fairly big pieces as well. I don’t think the pipeline is as bleak as you’re thinking, and I do think there are players who need 3 to 4 years to grow into a pro. I respect you and am glad to see you drop in for sure. Holland’s drafting in Edmonton hasn’t been great in the same time period. You can see how many picks since the 2019 draft have played significant ice time: https://www.hockeydb.com/...aft/teams/dr00005632.html

I don’t think they’re “doomed”. I know we disagree on the amount of time it takes for a player to develop. Seider was ready to roll. Raymond came in quickly. Edvinsson will be here next year. Mazur was supposed to have a shot at the main roster but injury kept him off. He’s picking up the pace in GR. Sandin Pelikka (before injured) was getting a lot of positive press. We’ll see how he turns out. In the end, we’re seeing how cups are bought with free agents, LTIR, and veterans who take discounts. Vegas was completely built on other people’s draft picks and have paid for elite talent to come in. If they end up with everyone healthy they’ll be well over the cap. Florida has paid to bring in some fairly big pieces as well. I don’t think the pipeline is as bleak as you’re thinking, and I do think there are players who need 3 to 4 years to grow into a pro. I respect you and am glad to see you drop in for sure. Holland’s drafting in Edmonton hasn’t been great in the same time period. You can see how many picks since the 2019 draft have played significant ice time: https://www.hockeydb.com/...aft/teams/dr00005632.html
- Jeremy Laura

Edmonton's drafting under Holland isn't relevant. What's clear is our drafting was terrible for a very long time. I don't see any evidence it's improved under Yzerman. Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson isn't anything special. When you pick 6, 4, 6 then you obviously find very good players. Unless someone has some developmental leap, we've already missed on a long list of 2nd and 3rd round picks. And this isn't a single late 2nd picking at #59. These are picks like 32, 35, 36, 40
- top 50 picks! It's wasted draft capital. Look at Colorado using 2nd round picks to add guys like Toews, Ross Colton. I remember Buffalo adding Greenway for a 2nd. Nasty guy to play against. Has upside. Cheap. But we kept all our picks.

Edmonton's drafting under Holland isn't relevant. What's clear is our drafting was terrible for a very long time. I don't see any evidence it's improved under Yzerman. Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson isn't anything special. When you pick 6, 4, 6 then you obviously find very good players. Unless someone has some developmental leap, we've already missed on a long list of 2nd and 3rd round picks. And this isn't a single late 2nd picking at #59. These are picks like 32, 35, 36, 40
- top 50 picks! It's wasted draft capital. Look at Colorado using 2nd round picks to add guys like Toews, Ross Colton. I remember Buffalo adding Greenway for a 2nd. Nasty guy to play against. Has upside. Cheap. But we kept all our picks.
- HockeyBuzzed

I’ll disagree (respectfully) on all 3. Seider, especially, has gained a good deal of respect in a short time. To say he’s not anything special is, I believe, a misnomer. Raymond is putting on weight, love his skating and will likely be a 2nd or 3rd line player on a good team. Edvinsson is one I am excited about. I don’t want to change your mind, we just disagree on the players. I missed seeing you in the comments and am glad you stopped in.

Is larkin back or nah

I’ll disagree (respectfully) on all 3. Seider, especially, has gained a good deal of respect in a short time. To say he’s not anything special is, I believe, a misnomer. Raymond is putting on weight, love his skating and will likely be a 2nd or 3rd line player on a good team. Edvinsson is one I am excited about. I don’t want to change your mind, we just disagree on the players. I missed seeing you in the comments and am glad you stopped in.
- Jeremy Laura

You are misunderstanding. Seider is a special player. But the majority of players picked at 4-5-6 are also special players. Hitting on these isn't really that impressive.

Put it another way, instead of Seider what if you had Cozens or Zegras. Instead of Raymond you have Sanderson or Drysdale. Instead of Edvinsson you have Brandt Clarke on the way or a skilled guy like Eklund. Now we'd be feeling great about having a 2C like Cozens or Zegras behind Larkin. And we'd be loving a top pairing of Sanderson-Clarke. It's different names. But nearly every organization finds very good players with top 5 picks. The failure outside of the top 5-10 picks is the problem.

Goals scored across the league is up significantly compared to 4 years ago. The Detroit trend is more in with the league in general and not a sign of Yzermans success.

While I think he should be praised and many disagreed with his picks of Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson…all have proven to be very savvy.

But the reason Detroit will not be Tampa is they exited the rebuild too soon. They never acquired a true Hall of Fame talent, and started putting gas on the fire a few years too early. They are destined to be a good playoff bubble team that COULD go on a run in the playoffs in future years, but no chance of being a GREAT team and perennial contender. It’s a shame.

I've been saying this for years. You have to find a gem or two in the 2nd or 3rd rounds at least every other year. TB is the model. Killhorn, #77,Gudas #66, Kucherov #58, Palat #208, Point #79, Joseph #120, Cirelli #72. That's 7 legit NHL players including a few stars and a super star during their rebuild.

Let's look at Detroit later picks over the same period: Nyquist #121, Tatar #60, Athanasiou #110, Bertuzzi #58, Hronek #53. That's 5 legit NHL players, none turned out to be stars, but here's the thing...many of those players TB drafted was during their rebuild. Every single one of those players Detroit drafted is gone. The last few years of Kenny were awful.

Imagine where Detroit would be if Kenny took Boeser, Konecny or Aho in 2015, Thompson, Kyrou or DeBrincat in 2016, Suzuki, Thomas or Robertson in 2017, Hughes, Bouchard or Farabee in 2018. Instead, his last 4 drafts produced exactly two bottom six NHL caliber players.

I recognize that Yzerman is more patient in developing players, but he's had five drafts and has drafted 51 players. Two of them are playing in the NHL. The success or failure of this rebuild is going to be determined by how many non-first round players either become NHL players, or have enough value to trade for NHL players. Look at Florida's playoff roster last year. Only four players were drafted by Florida, the rest were signed or traded for, so it's not all through the draft, but Detroit needs some of their later round players to have enough value to help them acquire assets.

Goals scored across the league is up significantly compared to 4 years ago. The Detroit trend is more in with the league in general and not a sign of Yzermans success.

While I think he should be praised and many disagreed with his picks of Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson…all have proven to be very savvy.

But the reason Detroit will not be Tampa is they exited the rebuild too soon. They never acquired a true Hall of Fame talent, and started putting gas on the fire a few years too early. They are destined to be a good playoff bubble team that COULD go on a run in the playoffs in future years, but no chance of being a GREAT team and perennial contender. It’s a shame.
- Dahlmanyotes

They also had a lot of bad draft luck, along with some bad drafts in the 4 years prior to Yzerman. If they had gotten top 3 picks in 2018, 2021 and 2022, they'd probably have their star. Sadly, they are not going to get that game changing phenom, just some solid, likely reliable NHL caliber players.

So, in order to clear my mind whilst building PowerPoint slides (a disgusting requirement of the military, unfortunately...), I took a look at some of the names out there we were rumored to have been play during this TDL...no clue if they were actually available mind you, BUT: Ullmark, Saros; Zegras; Chychrun, Zadorov...

There has to be some stomach for taking a run at some of these guy, we may not like the names required to complete a trade for those who aren't UFAs, but if we want help, guys like these could be part of the solution.

Ullmark's definitely a big name, great stats, 9yrs or so in the league, would bridge the gap until we know what we truly have in Cossa or Augustine (and give them time to become legit NHLers).
Saros, may not have the amount of time left as a viable player, but could bring some stability in net. We are desperate for a stable G.

Zegras....his play speaks for itself, but not sure what the solution for him will be coming back from the ankle issue. Would be awesome to have his speed and creativity.

Chychrun, I donno. He's been a good D dude for sure, FAR better than Cholowski. He gives the puck away a ton more than takes it...we need defenders who have reverence for possession of the puck, not someone who gives it away like halloween candy.
Zadorov is just a beast. Blocks well, hits like a bomb. Not a huge shooter, but has a pretty solid outlet pass. 35yrs old with lots of miles on him...

Something has to give. We need help. But, really we need over the longer term so I'd say younger guys who may be part of the team and contribute to re-establishing a winning culture for a decent amount of time. Character guys. The Captain's doing well, but he's by no means perfect. You don't know what you get in a draft until it hits.....or misses. I'd nit think drafting alone would build enduring winners, gotta run through UFA & TDL events with some savvy moves. We knew we weren't going to be SCPO threats, despite the 20% win rate over the past 10 games we still are in the running to make it. We know what we need....the question becomes; are we willing to give some assets up to speed up the rebuild (and possibly shorten it by losing players in the current pool), or keep plugging gaps, drafting, and waiting for the kids to hit? Either way, this isn't our year....much to our dismay given the play this year.

As stated by others the defense is a mess, and the goal tending was questionable going into the season. In saying that, yes the forwards need to help the defense, and for the most part have not. Summing it up water seeks it's own level, and that's where the Red Wings are now.

They also had a lot of bad draft luck, along with some bad drafts in the 4 years prior to Yzerman. If they had gotten top 3 picks in 2018, 2021 and 2022, they'd probably have their star. Sadly, they are not going to get that game changing phenom, just some solid, likely reliable NHL caliber players.
- bluelineenforcer

This is NOT an excuse, but we didn't fare too well in the "lottery"...could've helped us find that "star" we are in such dire need of. At crappy as we've finished for the number of years, you'd *think* something good would have happened. But, look at BUF, how many 1st draft selections did they have and nothing to show for those (NOT saying a 1st is the be-all, end-all). 'Course they didn't have a robust supporting cast of players, either. Takes a very robust staff with lots of luck in the draft (ALL rounds) and savvy UFA & TDL moves. It's all very frustrating as a fan.....

Been saying it for a while now, if you go 5 drafts without finding a stud passed the 1st round, someone has to lose their job, khe, Draper, khe.
Just look at the Dallas drafting record! It's phenomenal, while Draper passed on really good players like Stanhoven

Been saying it for a while now, if you go 5 drafts without finding a stud passed the 1st round, someone has to lose their job, khe, Draper, khe.
Just look at the Dallas drafting record! It's phenomenal, while Draper passed on really good players like Stanhoven
- StargateSG1

Yeah, I do think some of our drafting has been fairly horrible....ok, down-right crappy. And, it goes without saying, we need to do better with analaysis of prospects. Tyat being said, there've been some pretty good selections, but as has been noted above we are losing it on 2d, 3d, & 4th round picks. We get more of those than 1sts, so logic says: Ya gotta make those count....

A couple of them are just pylons out there , Petry, Chiarot.
- wingz4life

Kane?

Holland’s drafting in Edmonton hasn’t been great in the same time period. You can see how many picks since the 2019 draft have played significant ice time: https://www.hockeydb.com/...aft/teams/dr00005632.html
- Jeremy Laura

Can't compare Hollands one 2nd round pick to Yzermans twelve 2nd round picks