Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Injuries, World Championships and More

"I don’t know if it’s the right thing, but I can’t not play. It’s just geared in my head. If I’m not dead or I’m not deathly sick, I’m gonna try to get out there and do whatever I can. Whether the coach is gonna play me, whatever minutes he wanted to play me, that was up to him. I’m definitely gonna sacrifice my body for the team, that’s for sure.”

Simmer is a warrior and true Flyer.

I hate clean out day, but it is invariably the time you get the most truth.

On Provorov wanting to take on more of a leadership role....that is great. His fire and determination from a leadership position and not just from a young player position.

On Manning. He would be my choice to stay and Gudas to go. Manning is able to play on the PP in a pinch, he is a better skater and he plays both sides of the ice. Gudas is only effective playing on the right side and the accumulated miles on his surgically repaired knee make him a pylon at times. He seems to have completely lost the leg drive he used to have when delivering checks or pinning players along the boards. Manning would also be less expensive (unless his agent is going for the house).

On Simmonds. He was hurt when camp opened? How? Yes, it is commendable that he plays with injuries and is willing to put himself out there physically. That does not diminish the fact that the PP was better with Patrick than Simmonds and the PK was better once he was take off it. His late game brain cramps and turn overs, usually when trying to get long range shots into open nets, are an on going problem. Frankly, at this point, if the Flyers can get a 1st a conditional 1st or 2nd and a solid prospect, I move him. Players who play the power game break down and they break down fast. There is no gradual erosion. Wayne is great in and for the community and has done some great things on the ice, but there is a point when the diminished returns outweigh the potential good. But that is just my opinion.

From the last thread:

Yeah, I respect the hell out of Simmonds, but he made the wrong call. If the tear was diagnosed at the start of camp, we are talking about late September. If he has the surgery right away, he's back by early November and only misses 15 or so games. The guy is a warrior and I understand where his heart is, but sometimes you have to use your head instead. We don't know what went on behind the scenes and probably never will, but someone should have done what it took to convince him to have the surgery.


And now, new stuff:

Provy and Couts are true warriors as well and kudos to both of them. Glad neither will need surgery and will be ready for camp. I'm also glad that none of the Flyers top players are playing in the worlds. Rest up and train properly boys, big things are coming for this team.

Besides finding a quality 3rd center for next season, the only other thing that really worries me about this team is the goaltending. Going into 18-19 with a solid, but far from spectacular starter, who is coming off a major surgery and an inconsistent backup who is just ridiculously injury prone is a huge risk and could really backfire on this team. I really hope Hextall can find a way to upgrade the position prior to the start of the season.

Carter Hart is an amazing prospect, but it would be a near miracle if he, at any time even during the season, is able to seize the starting goalie spot for the Flyers in 18-19 and he may not even be ready by 19-20 or pan out at all. Sandstrom will be spending another year in Europe and again it's doubtful if he plays in the NHL before 20-21. Lyon does not look like an NHL starter to me and Stolarz, coming off what was pretty much a lost season, is a total wild card right now.

Finding a quality starter who is under contract through 19-20 would do wonders for this team IMO.

I hate clean out day, but it is invariably the time you get the most truth.

On Provorov wanting to take on more of a leadership role....that is great. His fire and determination from a leadership position and not just from a young player position.

On Manning. He would be my choice to stay and Gudas to go. Manning is able to play on the PP in a pinch, he is a better skater and he plays both sides of the ice. Gudas is only effective playing on the right side and the accumulated miles on his surgically repaired knee make him a pylon at times. He seems to have completely lost the leg drive he used to have when delivering checks or pinning players along the boards. Manning would also be less expensive (unless his agent is going for the house).


On Simmonds. He was hurt when camp opened? How? Yes, it is commendable that he plays with injuries and is willing to put himself out there physically. That does not diminish the fact that the PP was better with Patrick than Simmonds and the PK was better once he was take off it. His late game brain cramps and turn overs, usually when trying to get long range shots into open nets, are an on going problem. Frankly, at this point, if the Flyers can get a 1st a conditional 1st or 2nd and a solid prospect, I move him. Players who play the power game break down and they break down fast. There is no gradual erosion. Wayne is great in and for the community and has done some great things on the ice, but there is a point when the diminished returns outweigh the potential good. But that is just my opinion.
- wbon22

In a perfect world, I agree with you re: Manning/Simmonds. But some GM, on a team that is woefully thin on D, is likely going to give Manning a 3 year deal with an aav in the 1.5-2million range and I want no part of that. If it was up to me, I'd let Manning walk and trade Gudas. I'd sign an older vet to be the 7th guy and Morin would step into the lineup. If Myers has a great camp, and clearly makes the team, you can start the season with 8 D or waive the vet. Either way, I'd be happy to see the last of Gudas and Manning.

From the last thread:

Yeah, I respect the hell out of Simmonds, but he made the wrong call. If the tear was diagnosed at the start of camp, we are talking about late September. If he has the surgery right away, he's back by early November and only misses 15 or so games. The guy is a warrior and I understand where his heart is, but sometimes you have to use your head instead. We don't know what went on behind the scenes and probably never will, but someone should have done what it took to convince him to have the surgery.


And now, new stuff:

Provy and Couts are true warriors as well and kudos to both of them. Glad neither will need surgery and will be ready for camp. I'm also glad that none of the Flyers top players are playing in the worlds. Rest up and train properly boys, big things are coming for this team.

Besides finding a quality 3rd center for next season, the only other thing that really worries me about this team is the goaltending. Going into 18-19 with a solid, but far from spectacular starter, who is coming off a major surgery and an inconsistent backup who is just ridiculously injury prone is a huge risk and could really backfire on this team. I really hope Hextall can find a way to upgrade the position prior to the start of the season.

Carter Hart is an amazing prospect, but it would be a near miracle if he, at any time even during the season, is able to seize the starting goalie spot for the Flyers in 18-19 and he may not even be ready by 19-20 or pan out at all. Sandstrom will be spending another year in Europe and again it's doubtful if he plays in the NHL before 20-21. Lyon does not look like an NHL starter to me and Stolarz, coming off what was pretty much a lost season, is a total wild card right now.

Finding a quality starter who is under contract through 19-20 would do wonders for this team IMO.
- BiggE

Honestly, I'd rather go with Elliott/Lyon than Elliott/Neuvirth. But I'd much rather have a more reliable starter. Not gonna name names and assets required, but it's what I'd like. Preferably, I'd rather get rid of them both and have Lyon as the backup. He seemed to progress as the season went on, he could become a very good backup.

It seems that based on the gut feeling that Bill has about the Simmonds contract situation is that is not the no brainer that many think it is to trade him. I absolutely expect Simmonds to rebound to get back to the player he is capable of being, and I hope they're able to work out a fair contract extension for Simmonds and keep him a Flyer.

I now hope they attempt to resign Simmonds. I hope they can reach a contract length and AAV that helps both sides. He definitely deserves a raise on his current cap friendly deal. I guess it just depends on how much of a raise the Flyers want to give as compared to how much Simmonds wants.

Will he still want to "spend the rest of his career here" if they offer him 4 years at 5.5 aav?

From the last thread:

Yeah, I respect the hell out of Simmonds, but he made the wrong call. If the tear was diagnosed at the start of camp, we are talking about late September. If he has the surgery right away, he's back by early November and only misses 15 or so games. The guy is a warrior and I understand where his heart is, but sometimes you have to use your head instead. We don't know what went on behind the scenes and probably never will, but someone should have done what it took to convince him to have the surgery.


And now, new stuff:

Provy and Couts are true warriors as well and kudos to both of them. Glad neither will need surgery and will be ready for camp. I'm also glad that none of the Flyers top players are playing in the worlds. Rest up and train properly boys, big things are coming for this team.

Besides finding a quality 3rd center for next season, the only other thing that really worries me about this team is the goaltending. Going into 18-19 with a solid, but far from spectacular starter, who is coming off a major surgery and an inconsistent backup who is just ridiculously injury prone is a huge risk and could really backfire on this team. I really hope Hextall can find a way to upgrade the position prior to the start of the season.

Carter Hart is an amazing prospect, but it would be a near miracle if he, at any time even during the season, is able to seize the starting goalie spot for the Flyers in 18-19 and he may not even be ready by 19-20 or pan out at all. Sandstrom will be spending another year in Europe and again it's doubtful if he plays in the NHL before 20-21. Lyon does not look like an NHL starter to me and Stolarz, coming off what was pretty much a lost season, is a total wild card right now.

Finding a quality starter who is under contract through 19-20 would do wonders for this team IMO.
- BiggE

I don't know how he would upgrade the position without paying a huge cost relative to the upgrade they're getting. I think the more realistic scenario of bringing in a new goalie is just finding a new person for everyone to be mad at, to be honest. Maybe Washington is in love with a prospect we are okay giving up, but I doubt it.

It seems that based on the gut feeling that Bill has about the Simmonds contract situation is that is not the no brainer that many think it is to trade him. I absolutely expect Simmonds to rebound to get back to the player he is capable of being, and I hope they're able to work out a fair contract extension for Simmonds and keep him a Flyer.
- MJL

The "fair contract extension" will be the tricky part. It's not so much the money for me as the length. I'd rather deal with a higher cap hit over 4 years, than have him under contract for 6+

While there are certainly examples to the contrary, history does show that most non-superstar forwards see a drop off in their play as they move into their 30s and that drop off usually accelerates once they reach their mid 30s. Signing him to a deal that will expire when he's 34 would seem to be the smarter way to go.

Either way, unless as Bill says, they are simply "blown away" by a trade proposal, you keep him for 18-19. Worst case is that you likely get a great year out of a hard working player who is playing for a new contract and hopefully he helps you make the playoffs and win a round or 2. If he then walks after the season because you feel his contract demands are out of line, so be it.

Simmer is a warrior and true Flyer.
- Tomahawk

Yeeaaaaaa. Way to suck up the pain and grit through preseason and training camp. We needed him.

I now hope they attempt to resign Simmonds. I hope they can reach a contract length and AAV that helps both sides. He definitely deserves a raise on his current cap friendly deal. I guess it just depends on how much of a raise the Flyers want to give as compared to how much Simmonds wants.

Will he still want to "spend the rest of his career here" if they offer him 4 years at 5.5 aav?
- MBFlyerfan

If he's willing to go 4 years, I'd even go as high as offering him 25 million, 6.25 aav. The cap will almost certainly be north of 80 million next year and could easily be approaching 90 million by the fourth year of his new deal. 6.25 per over 4 wouldn't hurt the Flyers much in the short term nor does it bog them down long term.

I don't know how he would upgrade the position without paying a huge cost relative to the upgrade they're getting. I think the more realistic scenario of bringing in a new goalie is just finding a new person for everyone to be mad at, to be honest. Maybe Washington is in love with a prospect we are okay giving up, but I doubt it.
- YuenglingJagr

Agree completely. I'm comfortable coming back with Elliott. Not so much with Neuvirth.

I don't know how he would upgrade the position without paying a huge cost relative to the upgrade they're getting. I think the more realistic scenario of bringing in a new goalie is just finding a new person for everyone to be mad at, to be honest. Maybe Washington is in love with a prospect we are okay giving up, but I doubt it.
- YuenglingJagr

I hear you, but even a marginal upgrade is better than none at all. At this point, when looking at the depth of their prospect pool, I'd be willing to put the latter of our 2 first rounders into play if that's what it takes to bring in a quality starting goalie.

wish list (each in order of possibility):
aaron dell, quick, holtby
riley nash, bozak, kapanen, taveres

The "fair contract extension" will be the tricky part. It's not so much the money for me as the length. I'd rather deal with a higher cap hit over 4 years, than have him under contract for 6+

While there are certainly examples to the contrary, history does show that most non-superstar forwards see a drop off in their play as they move into their 30s and that drop off usually accelerates once they reach their mid 30s. Signing him to a deal that will expire when he's 34 would seem to be the smarter way to go.

Either way, unless as Bill says, they are simply "blown away" by a trade proposal, you keep him for 18-19. Worst case is that you likely get a great year out of a hard working player who is playing for a new contract and hopefully he helps you make the playoffs and win a round or 2. If he then walks after the season because you feel his contract demands are out of line, so be it.
- BiggE

I think Simmonds will be looking for a longer term deal for security which might come with a lower AAV in a compromise. I don't see letting him walk as a good move. If you're not going to re-sign him, you have to trade him. That would just be awful asset management. I don't expect the Flyers to be a contender next season.

Agree completely. I'm comfortable coming back with Elliott. Not so much with Neuvirth.
- MJL

Absolutely, the one I'd want to keep would be Elliott. I've had enough of Neuvirth.

If he's willing to go 4 years, I'd even go as high as offering him 25 million, 6.25 aav. The cap will almost certainly be north of 80 million next year and could easily be approaching 90 million by the fourth year of his new deal. 6.25 per over 4 wouldn't hurt the Flyers much in the short term nor does it bog them down long term.
- BiggE

I would be okay with that contract

I think Simmonds will be looking for a longer term deal for security which might come with a lower AAV in a compromise. I don't see letting him walk as a good move. If you're not going to re-sign him, you have to trade him. That would just be awful asset management. I don't expect the Flyers to be a contender next season.
- MJL

Yeah, it would be the better business move. In that case, you move him at the deadline next year and hope a young player coming back or one of the kids in LHV is ready to step into a 3rd line role

The "fair contract extension" will be the tricky part. It's not so much the money for me as the length. I'd rather deal with a higher cap hit over 4 years, than have him under contract for 6+

While there are certainly examples to the contrary, history does show that most non-superstar forwards see a drop off in their play as they move into their 30s and that drop off usually accelerates once they reach their mid 30s. Signing him to a deal that will expire when he's 34 would seem to be the smarter way to go.

Either way, unless as Bill says, they are simply "blown away" by a trade proposal, you keep him for 18-19. Worst case is that you likely get a great year out of a hard working player who is playing for a new contract and hopefully he helps you make the playoffs and win a round or 2. If he then walks after the season because you feel his contract demands are out of line, so be it.
- BiggE

Exactly. 4 years no more than 20 mil. If he balks at it.....bye

I hear you, but even a marginal upgrade is better than none at all. At this point, when looking at the depth of their prospect pool, I'd be willing to put the latter of our 2 first rounders into play if that's what it takes to bring in a quality starting goalie.
- BiggE

No way would I use a first round pick for a goaltender. That doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion. Not with Hart and other prospects in the pipeline.

Exactly. 4 years no more than 20 mil. If he balks at it.....bye
- Just5

That would be an insult and it would not be negotiating in good faith. You'd be basically telling him we don't want you.

I would be okay with that contract
- YuenglingJagr

I'd actually offer him that extension this summer. While he may get more by waiting, he knows that he's turning 30 next season and that he's one more significant injury away from perhaps getting a lot less. They may just be able to get that deal done.

That would be an insult and it would not be negotiating in good faith. You'd be basically telling him we don't want you.
- MJL

Hörnqvist just signed 5 yrs 5.3 mil. Pretty good comparable. Far from an insult

No way would I use a first round pick for a goaltender. That doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion. Not with Hart and other prospects in the pipeline.
- MJL

Prospects are just that, prospects. What if they don't pan out? get hurt? Right now, at the NHL level, the Flyers goaltending is average at best and if they do nothing it will almost be certainly the same next season. Moving the 19th pick in the draft to land a quality #1 goalie is fine with me, it's not like they don't have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league already and another, higher 1st in this years draft.

You say they aren't going to be a contender next year, but stranger things have happened. A top notch goalie who can steal games can often help a good, but not great team, go on a long playoff run. They really aren't as far as some think, especially if they upgrade in goal. If they can also find a solid 3C and the D keeps getting better, they could go on a legit run. Would they be considered a favorite? Of course not, but with a little luck and an upgrade in goal, they could emerge as a legit dark horse by the end of the season.