HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Fab Five: Golden Knights rise to the top

I would love to know what was the payout / odds if you put Vegas to finish first before the season started...

I would love to know what was the payout / odds if you put Vegas to finish first before the season started...
- Xizord

It’ll be very interesting to see if they can continue this for 30ish more games and then into the post season too.

Looking forward to this team being swept in the first round.

Vegas' success should not come as quite such a huge shock to everyone. If you look at the way the expansion draft was conducted, they were set up for success. The average team had to expose either a 2/3 line forward or top-4 D-man, because teams could really only protect their top 1/2 lines and top 3 or 4 D-men.

That means, Vegas got about 10 top 6 forwards, and 6-8 3rd line forwards. They also got at least 3-4 top-4 D-men. Certainly, they weren't going to have superstar forwards like Crosby, Ovechkin and Kane. But, they were going to be able to immediately ice 3 solid forward lines and two solid D-pairs. Plus, getting an established, cup-winning goaltender in Fleury, and what most consider to be a very good and underrated coach in Gallant...why would they not be a really good team from the start?

The Predators made it to the cup final last year with a solid Defense and the ability to roll 3 dangerous scoring lines - even if they don't have the household names and superstars. Vegas can roll three dangerous lines, and they have decent defense and solid goaltending. That's a recipe for not only making the playoffs, but being a solid cup contender.

I don't expect the Golden Knights to fold up in the playoffs. I really don't. They may not win the cup, but I don't think they will be an easy out for any team. As a fan of a previous expansion team, I think the way the league built this team was very unfair. Vegas has a much easier road to success than any of the past several expansion teams. They should've allowed each team to protect at least 2 more skaters. Vegas still would've gotten some good players, but half of their starting lineup would still be with their old teams. Previous expansion teams took 8-10 years to build up to the roster strength that Vegas got on day 1. But hey, those are the rules. Just don't expect Vegas to suddenly regress and become an average team. 45 games in, they are what they are. It's not smoke and mirrors.

Vegas' success should not come as quite such a huge shock to everyone. If you look at the way the expansion draft was conducted, they were set up for success. The average team had to expose either a 2/3 line forward or top-4 D-man, because teams could really only protect their top 1/2 lines and top 3 or 4 D-men.

That means, Vegas got about 10 top 6 forwards, and 6-8 3rd line forwards. They also got at least 3-4 top-4 D-men. Certainly, they weren't going to have superstar forwards like Crosby, Ovechkin and Kane. But, they were going to be able to immediately ice 3 solid forward lines and two solid D-pairs. Plus, getting an established, cup-winning goaltender in Fleury, and what most consider to be a very good and underrated coach in Gallant...why would they not be a really good team from the start?

The Predators made it to the cup final last year with a solid Defense and the ability to roll 3 dangerous scoring lines - even if they don't have the household names and superstars. Vegas can roll three dangerous lines, and they have decent defense and solid goaltending. That's a recipe for not only making the playoffs, but being a solid cup contender.

I don't expect the Golden Knights to fold up in the playoffs. I really don't. They may not win the cup, but I don't think they will be an easy out for any team. As a fan of a previous expansion team, I think the way the league built this team was very unfair. Vegas has a much easier road to success than any of the past several expansion teams. They should've allowed each team to protect at least 2 more skaters. Vegas still would've gotten some good players, but half of their starting lineup would still be with their old teams. Previous expansion teams took 8-10 years to build up to the roster strength that Vegas got on day 1. But hey, those are the rules. Just don't expect Vegas to suddenly regress and become an average team. 45 games in, they are what they are. It's not smoke and mirrors.
- holycow_75

Please list these "10 top 6 forwards"

Please list these "10 top 6 forwards"
- Nucker101

I may have been "spitballing" a little bit with the 10 top 6 forwards. Maybe it's only 6-8. But the following players either were top-6 forwards on their previous teams, or would be top-6 forwards on several NHL teams:

1. Marchessault
2. Karlsson
3. Perron
4. James Neal
5. Reilly Smith
6. Haula

And on some teams in the bottom of the league, where you would expect an expansion team to be, even players like Eakin, Tuch & Leipsic might crack the top 2 lines, if not the 3rd.

The point being, there are several teams fighting for playoff spots that would love to have James Neal or Eakin on their team, fighting for a top-6 spot. For a first year team to have that kind of depth is ridiculous.

I am not saying that these top 6-8 players would be top-six on every NHL team. Not by any stretch. But teams attack the salary cap and roster building in different ways. Some teams are top-heavy, and need to get all their scoring from their top 2 lines. Other teams are more balanced, and can roll 3/4 lines that give their opponents fits. Vegas is set up that way.

Looking forward to this team being swept in the first round.
- mjones242

Are you talking about the Leafs? When was the last time they made it to the 2nd round?

Vegas' success should not come as quite such a huge shock to everyone. If you look at the way the expansion draft was conducted, they were set up for success. The average team had to expose either a 2/3 line forward or top-4 D-man, because teams could really only protect their top 1/2 lines and top 3 or 4 D-men.

That means, Vegas got about 10 top 6 forwards, and 6-8 3rd line forwards. They also got at least 3-4 top-4 D-men. Certainly, they weren't going to have superstar forwards like Crosby, Ovechkin and Kane. But, they were going to be able to immediately ice 3 solid forward lines and two solid D-pairs. Plus, getting an established, cup-winning goaltender in Fleury, and what most consider to be a very good and underrated coach in Gallant...why would they not be a really good team from the start?

The Predators made it to the cup final last year with a solid Defense and the ability to roll 3 dangerous scoring lines - even if they don't have the household names and superstars. Vegas can roll three dangerous lines, and they have decent defense and solid goaltending. That's a recipe for not only making the playoffs, but being a solid cup contender.

I don't expect the Golden Knights to fold up in the playoffs. I really don't. They may not win the cup, but I don't think they will be an easy out for any team. As a fan of a previous expansion team, I think the way the league built this team was very unfair. Vegas has a much easier road to success than any of the past several expansion teams. They should've allowed each team to protect at least 2 more skaters. Vegas still would've gotten some good players, but half of their starting lineup would still be with their old teams. Previous expansion teams took 8-10 years to build up to the roster strength that Vegas got on day 1. But hey, those are the rules. Just don't expect Vegas to suddenly regress and become an average team. 45 games in, they are what they are. It's not smoke and mirrors.
- holycow_75

It's a good theory and I've been looking for some explanation because I'm still totally shocked. Not that they're decent but Vegas as the #1 team in the league is just astounding. At least to me.

And then to think they traded away talent or passed on better players for draft picks just makes it more shocking...

I personally wasn't particularly excited about a team in Vegas or their choice of names; but it's nice to see an expansion team do well out of the gate and get a lot of support from the fan base.

Please list these "10 top 6 forwards"
- Nucker101

Exactly, people are so bitter and i love it. Did anybody actually believe they would still be this good? No.

There's 5 legitimate top 6 guys on this team, Neal, Perron, Smith, Marchy, and maybe Haula. Karlsson up until this season had done nothing to suggest what he's been able to do here.

The rest were bottom 6 forwards with their previous teams which is why they were let go.

As far as the defense was concerned, top four guys... Schmidt, Theodore with the potential to be one in the future. The rest can all be argued to death about being legitimate top 4, McNabb, Sbisa, Engelland? not exactly a defense that would lead you to believe they'd have the best record in the league.

Fleury lost his starting job to Murray and Subban hadn't shown a single thing up until getting here.

People were laughing at their picks when they made them saying they'd be lucky to win 25 games. They come out, and everyone is saying how it was a nice story but they'll cool down, now it's people whining that they got handed to them an amazing team . So which one is it?.

Did they get to pick a better team than previous expansion teams? yes as they should have considering they paid twice as much. Did they get handed an amazing team that people thought would be contending?. Hell not even the staff thought they'd be this good, even in the most positive of outlooks.

Credit to George and all the scouts and Gallant.

Exactly, people are so bitter and i love it. Did anybody actually believe they would still be this good? No.

There's 5 legitimate top 6 guys on this team, Neal, Perron, Smith, Marchy, and maybe Haula. Karlsson up until this season had done nothing to suggest what he's been able to do here.

The rest were bottom 6 forwards with their previous teams which is why they were let go.

As far as the defense was concerned, top four guys... Schmidt, Theodore with the potential to be one in the future. The rest can all be argued to death about being legitimate top 4, McNabb, Sbisa, Engelland? not exactly a defense that would lead you to believe they'd have the best record in the league.

Fleury lost his starting job to Murray and Subban hadn't shown a single thing up until getting here.

People were laughing at their picks when they made them saying they'd be lucky to win 25 games. They come out, and everyone is saying how it was a nice story but they'll cool down, now it's people whining that they got handed to them an amazing team . So which one is it?.

Did they get to pick a better team than previous expansion teams? yes as they should have considering they paid twice as much. Did they get handed an amazing team that people thought would be contending?. Hell not even the staff thought they'd be this good, even in the most positive of outlooks.

Credit to George and all the scouts and Gallant.
- Yosimar89

^^^

Yup !

I would love to know what was the payout / odds if you put Vegas to finish first before the season started...

Before the season start, I've seen odds at 200/1 and 300/1, depending on the casino.

If you got in after their hot start, you were still at 30/1 or 40/1.

Agreed Yosimar.

Also, people don’t talk about how much the salary cap made other teams panic

Florida- please take Reilly Smith and his contract, and we will leave Marchessault open. We have an internal cap

TB- please take Garrison and his 4.5 million, we will give you Gusev, a 2nd and a 4th. We have others to sign. Need the space

Anaheim- please take Stoner and his 3 million+, we will give you Theodore. We have an internal cap.

NYI- please take this 5 million Grabovski hit. We will give you a first, Bischoff and others.