Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 1/7/18 vs. BUF

Free Sanhiem.

Seriously. If you're at the point where you can separate the player Hextall from the GM Hextall you have to admit he is really in the wrong continuing to allow Sanhiem to be healthy scratched. He needs to be sent down or Hak needs to be told to play him.

On another note, as crazy as it sounds. Bring back Jagr. If you don't want to bring up Martell or Lindbolm to replace Jori freaking Lehtera on the power play that's fine. But don't try to tell me Jagr wouldn't be more useful on PP2 and to the kids in the locker room.

Free Sanhiem.

Seriously. If you're at the point where you can separate the player Hextall from the GM Hextall you have to admit he is really in the wrong continuing to allow Sanhiem to be healthy scratched. He needs to be sent down or Hak needs to be told to play him.

On another note, as crazy as it sounds. Bring back Jagr. If you don't want to bring up Martell or Lindbolm to replace Jori freaking Lehtera on the power play that's fine. But don't try to tell me Jagr wouldn't be more useful on PP2 and to the kids in the locker room.
- hereticpride

100% with you on Sanheim..
it literally makes no sense at all to have him sitting this many games in a row..even worse now going into their off week so its going to be like 2 weeks or more since Sanheim has played a game.. Makes 0 sense.
Im sure they could make the argument of minus the Pens game we have been winning..

100% disagree with Jagr.
While he was one of my favorite all time players I just dont think he has anything left at all that warrants bringing him in. In the best of times over the past years he looked slow. If you watched him any games this year he looked like an Ent out there.

Post

Free Sanhiem.

Seriously. If you're at the point where you can separate the player Hextall from the GM Hextall you have to admit he is really in the wrong continuing to allow Sanhiem to be healthy scratched. He needs to be sent down or Hak needs to be told to play him.

On another note, as crazy as it sounds. Bring back Jagr. If you don't want to bring up Martell or Lindbolm to replace Jori freaking Lehtera on the power play that's fine. But don't try to tell me Jagr wouldn't be more useful on PP2 and to the kids in the locker room.
- hereticpride

Re: Sanheim, I agree that he needs to either play or take one temporary step back to take two forward (i.e., a month or so back with the Phantoms). But it is NEVER up to the GM to set the lineup for his coach or dictate that such and such player needs to be in the lineup. That is 100 percent a coach's decision.

Re: Jagr, his pride does not allow him to be a bit player. He is neither happy nor effective in that circumstance, and that's why he wants out of Calgary even if it means retirement or going home to play. Far and away the main reason he left the Flyers for Dallas in the summer of 2012 was that he saw the handwriting on the wall that Jakub Voracek was ready to be elevated from RW3 to RW1 and he was already unhappy with having been taken off PP1 in the second half of the year. Jagr wanted at least PP1 time if he wasn't getting 1st line RW time (actually, he expressed an interest in trying to mentor Couturier -- it's in Jay Greenberg's Flyers at 50 book).

100% with you on Sanheim..
it literally makes no sense at all to have him sitting this many games in a row..even worse now going into their off week so its going to be like 2 weeks or more since Sanheim has played a game.. Makes 0 sense.
Im sure they could make the argument of minus the Pens game we have been winning..

100% disagree with Jagr.
While he was one of my favorite all time players I just dont think he has anything left at all that warrants bringing him in. In the best of times over the past years he looked slow. If you watched him any games this year he looked like an Ent out there.
- opeth_pa

Yup, pretty much how I see it. Re the 2nd pp unit, get Sanheim back in the lineup and just go with: Konecny, Patrick, Raffl, Sanheim and Provorov. You can spot in Weal and/or Filppula if needed.

Re: Sanheim, I agree that he needs to either play or take one temporary step back to take two forward (i.e., a month or so back with the Phantoms). But it is NEVER up to the GM to set the lineup for his coach or dictate that such and such player needs to be in the lineup. That is 100 percent a coach's decision.

Re: Jagr, his pride does not allow him to be a bit player. He is neither happy nor effective in that circumstance, and that's why he wants out of Calgary even if it means retirement or going home to play. Far and away the main reason he left the Flyers for Dallas in the summer of 2012 was that he saw the handwriting on the wall that Jakub Voracek was ready to be elevated from RW3 to RW1 and he was already unhappy with having been taken off PP1 in the second half of the year. Jagr wanted at least PP1 time if he wasn't getting 1st line RW time (actually, he expressed an interest in trying to mentor Couturier -- it's in Jay Greenberg's Flyers at 50 book).
- bmeltzer

If that's how Jagr feels, his best bet if he wants to keep on playing, is to go back home. I just don't think that he can skate well enough at this point in his career to play a top 6 role. Personally, I hope he retires. I'd hate to have watch him slowly decline any more and become a guy that everyone looks at with pity. He's had an amazing career, there is nothing left for him to accomplish.

Re: Jagr. Perhaps, he wants to play in the Olympics. With Calgary not going anywhere this season and NHLers not participatingin OI he has another shot at a medal. Oh, and Russian ban works in his favor too.

Re: Sanheim, I agree that he needs to either play or take one temporary step back to take two forward (i.e., a month or so back with the Phantoms). But it is NEVER up to the GM to set the lineup for his coach or dictate that such and such player needs to be in the lineup. That is 100 percent a coach's decision.

Re: Jagr, his pride does not allow him to be a bit player. He is neither happy nor effective in that circumstance, and that's why he wants out of Calgary even if it means retirement or going home to play. Far and away the main reason he left the Flyers for Dallas in the summer of 2012 was that he saw the handwriting on the wall that Jakub Voracek was ready to be elevated from RW3 to RW1 and he was already unhappy with having been taken off PP1 in the second half of the year. Jagr wanted at least PP1 time if he wasn't getting 1st line RW time (actually, he expressed an interest in trying to mentor Couturier -- it's in Jay Greenberg's Flyers at 50 book).
- bmeltzer

Bill, at a certain point though doesn't Hextall have to get involved if Hak continues to scratch Sanhiem? It's just poor asset management if he doesn't.

Also, wasn't there an instance maybe two or three years back when Hextall was reported to have gone to the locker room post game after a bad loss and throw a fit because the rookie he called up was pretty much benched all game? I fail to remember exactly who the player was. Maybe Ghost?

Re:Jagr. Point taken. Just with Lehtera on PP2 I think we're looking pretty desperate. And it's clear Hak doesn't want to turn PP2 fully over to the kids yet.

This team's development program is a mess

I did not realize that Jason Pominville was still in the league.

/TheMoreYouKnow.gif

I did not realize that Jason Pominville was still in the league.

/TheMoreYouKnow.gif
- johndewar

This team's development program is a mess
- PhillySportsGuy

Could be worse, we could be Buffalo. Tanking forever with little to show for it. That franchise is just the epitome of failure. Been in the league since 1970, and been to the finals a whopping 2 times with no Cups to show for it. That's just flat out bad. Then again, Vancouver has had pretty much the same success rate though at least they went to the finals 3 times.

All of a sudden not having won a Cup since 1975 and making 6 trips to the finals since, doesn't look so bad.

This team's development program is a mess
- PhillySportsGuy

Ghost, Laughton, Provy, TK, Hagg are all normal players that have come through that development program over the past 3 years.

Leir and Patrick have secondary roles right now but came through that program.

Prior to sitting these 4 games Sanheim was in the first group..

So that is 8 players that have come through the development program over the past 3 years.

I wouldnt call that a mess but I do agree they seem to be making a mistake with Sanheim.

Could be worse, we could be Buffalo. Tanking forever with little to show for it. That franchise is just the epitome of failure. Been in the league since 1970, and been to the finals a whopping 2 times with no Cups to show for it. That's just flat out bad. Then again, Vancouver has had pretty much the same success rate though at least they went to the finals 3 times.

All of a sudden not having won a Cup since 1975 and making 6 trips to the finals since, doesn't look so bad.
- BiggE

They really only tried to tank for one season and got Eichel out of it. Their problem is that they didn't tank competently

Ghost, Laughton, Provy, TK, Hagg are all normal players that have come through that development program over the past 3 years.

Leir and Patrick have secondary roles right now but came through that program.

Prior to sitting these 4 games Sanheim was in the first group..

So that is 8 players that have come through the development program over the past 3 years.

I wouldnt call that a mess but I do agree they seem to be making a mistake with Sanheim.
- opeth_pa

Just because young players are playing hockey for the Flyers doesn't mean they're being developed well

This team's development program is a mess
- PhillySportsGuy

It's more in a state of confusion

It's more in a state of confusion
- ob18

That's probably a better characterization, but I prefer sensationalism, so MESS

This team's development program is a mess
- PhillySportsGuy

Totally disagree. I don't see a mess. I just see various learning curves; basically the norm when you are working to turn prospects into regular NHL contributors. It doesn't always happen quickly. There's a reason why development is called a learning curve and not a learning arrow.

Would it be nice if the Flyers had a Hischier or Boeser that stepped in with immediate impact up front and a "second Provorov" on D? Absolutely. Is it a huge concern that they haven't? It shouldn't be. But if we are having all these same conversations a year from now, yes, there'd be some concern.

1) Konecny is now playing with Couturier and Giroux -- a role that took some time to be ready for -- is doing well and should only continue to improve. He's still only 20 years old and is on a 30-point pace despite all his trials and tribulations. That's not a disaster.

2) Provorov benefited from the extra year of junior hockey and made an instant NHL impact; he's going to be the Flyers' cornerstone defenseman for a long time.

3) Hägg took a long road to the NHL, is now a regular and holding his own. There are things he still needs to improve, in some aspects considerably, but he is already reliable in his number one job, which is to defend well below the dots and be strong on the walls -- that is the main thing the decision makers look for (and it would be the same if he played elsewhere. FYI, other NHL teams' scouts have said in press box conversations that the Flyers did a real good job with Hägg and consider him about as steady as a rookie in his role can be expected to be).

4) Laughton is also a protracted development cycle guy, but has found an NHL role that he's pretty good at doing.

5) Patrick will be fine. Don't go by a half-season or even a full season of rookie numbers. With him, it's going to be a matter of those flashes we see turning into more frequent effectiveness. Right now, he still loses a lot of the battles that he will eventually win. It will take more time, but it will come.

6) Sanheim is your typical rookie NHL d-man at his age. Provorov spoiled us a year ago. A bit like Patrick, there have been flashes (actually a smattering of full games) where you can see Sanheim making an impact. Right now, he's basically a defenseman version of where Konecny was a year ago and for portions of the first half this year. Eventually, he'll be fine. However, I do agree that it would be better if he was playing for the Phantoms than sitting out a prolonged stretch in the NHL as a healthy scratch. He's already pretty good up-ice, but will only get better. Defensively, he's inconsistent but will also improve over time.

7) Leier right now is kind of where Laughton was a couple years ago..... very good two-way AHL guy, good skater, struggling to be effective in NHL (after a strong camp and good early start). He's never going to get the role/minutes he had with the Phantoms but he could figure it out still enough to be a good "modern day 4th liner" (meaning there needs to be some offense).

9) With Morin, the team was kind of at rookie saturation point on defense -- tough enough to break in two rookies, let alone 3 -- and then he got injured when the opportunity arose. He's close to being ready to return to the Phantoms lineup and hopefully doesn't get reinjured. If Sanheim goes down to the AHL for awhile, perhaps Morin comes up. He was uneven in his play during his brief Flyers stint this season -- nothing alarming but nothing that screamed "instant impact player", either, in proportion to the outcry for him. Sam will be fine. He's a good young D man.

10) The organization made the right call on Lindblom with a half-year in the AHL. When he comes up --- not sure when that will be, but I do think he's ready -- I think he'll become what many of us (myself included) hoped he'd be right from the outset. Sometimes it just takes a little extra time. Personally, I'd like to see him plugged into the role Raffl plays right now and for Raffl to go back to the 4th line. As Lindblom matures, you'll see more regular offense out of him in the NHL than you'll get (except in short spurts) from Raffl in a top-nine role.

Filppula has been just as awful as advertised. Flyers really need to just stop playing him, Weise and Lehtera altogether. No reason why they can't find better replacements in the minors for these guys

Filppula has been just as awful as advertised. Flyers really need to just stop playing him, Weise and Lehtera altogether. No reason why they can't find better replacements in the minors for these guys
- PhillySportsGuy

I still rank Flip a few click above Weise and Lehtera actually. He's largely fine on the wing on the 3rd or 4th line. I'm not a big fan of him at center and definitely not a fan of using him in the top 6 but it seems that Hak doesn't have a lot of options.

Just because young players are playing hockey for the Flyers doesn't mean they're being developed well
- PhillySportsGuy

So if playing consistant games at the NHL isn't a measure of success as far as development goes then what is?

I just don't see their development system as being a mess.

Totally disagree. I don't see a mess. I just see various learning curves; basically the norm when you are working to turn prospects into regular NHL contributors. It doesn't always happen quickly. There's a reason why development is called a learning curve and not a learning arrow.

Would it be nice if the Flyers had a Hischier or Boeser that stepped in with immediate impact up front and a "second Provorov" on D? Absolutely. Is it a huge concern that they haven't? It shouldn't be. But if we are having all these same conversations a year from now, yes, there'd be some concern.

1) Konecny is now playing with Couturier and Giroux -- a role that took some time to be ready for -- is doing well and should only continue to improve. He's still only 20 years old and is on a 30-point pace despite all his trials and tribulations. That's not a disaster.

2) Provorov benefited from the extra year of junior hockey and made an instant NHL impact; he's going to be the Flyers' cornerstone defenseman for a long time.

3) Hägg took a long road to the NHL, is now a regular and holding his own. There are things he still needs to improve, in some aspects considerably, but he is already reliable in his number one job, which is to defend well below the dots and be strong on the walls -- that is the main thing the decision makers look for (and it would be the same if he played elsewhere. FYI, other NHL teams' scouts have said in press box conversations that the Flyers did a real good job with Hägg and consider him about as steady as a rookie in his role can be expected to be).

4) Laughton is also a protracted development cycle guy, but has found an NHL role that he's pretty good at doing.

5) Patrick will be fine. Don't go by a half-season or even a full season of rookie numbers. With him, it's going to be a matter of those flashes we see turning into more frequent effectiveness. Right now, he still loses a lot of the battles that he will eventually win. It will take more time, but it will come.

6) Sanheim is your typical rookie NHL d-man at his age. Provorov spoiled us a year ago. A bit like Patrick, there have been flashes (actually a smattering of full games) where you can see Sanheim making an impact. Right now, he's basically a defenseman version of where Konecny was a year ago and for portions of the first half this year. Eventually, he'll be fine. However, I do agree that it would be better if he was playing for the Phantoms than sitting out a prolonged stretch in the NHL as a healthy scratch. He's already pretty good up-ice, but will only get better. Defensively, he's inconsistent but will also improve over time.

7) Leier right now is kind of where Laughton was a couple years ago..... very good two-way AHL guy, good skater, struggling to be effective in NHL (after a strong camp and good early start). He's never going to get the role/minutes he had with the Phantoms but he could figure it out still enough to be a good "modern day 4th liner" (meaning there needs to be some offense).

9) With Morin, the team was kind of at rookie saturation point on defense -- tough enough to break in two rookies, let alone 3 -- and then he got injured when the opportunity arose. He's close to being ready to return to the Phantoms lineup and hopefully doesn't get reinjured. If Sanheim goes down to the AHL for awhile, perhaps Morin comes up. He was uneven in his play during his brief Flyers stint this season -- nothing alarming but nothing that screamed "instant impact player", either, in proportion to the outcry for him. Sam will be fine. He's a good young D man.

10) The organization made the right call on Lindblom with a half-year in the AHL. When he comes up --- not sure when that will be, but I do think he's ready -- I think he'll become what many of us (myself included) hoped he'd be right from the outset. Sometimes it just takes a little extra time. Personally, I'd like to see him plugged into the role Raffl plays right now and for Raffl to go back to the 4th line. As Lindblom matures, you'll see more regular offense out of him in the NHL than you'll get (except in short spurts) from Raffl in a top-nine role.
- bmeltzer

Agree on all fronts, hard not to. I think some the frustration comes from the fact that the guys up in philly that are currently in the positions that will be occupied by the next generation have been underwhelming....( in some cases that’s being kind) the Weise’s...the Lehtera’s....the Mac Donald’s....the Mannings....the Filpula’s...and fans want change...so that they actually can become a winning team.

On top of that a team comes in to the league like Vegas and looks better from scratch then the Flyers have looked in 5 years. Is it the coach ? Is it the guy picking the team? Is a team like Vegas an abiritition? I think Flyers fans are sick of mediocrity ...I know I am.

If the Flyers come out flat against Buffalo (again), this board is going to go nuclear, isnt it?

Totally disagree. I don't see a mess. I just see various learning curves; basically the norm when you are working to turn prospects into regular NHL contributors. It doesn't always happen quickly. There's a reason why development is called a learning curve and not a learning arrow.

Would it be nice if the Flyers had a Hischier or Boeser that stepped in with immediate impact up front and a "second Provorov" on D? Absolutely. Is it a huge concern that they haven't? It shouldn't be. But if we are having all these same conversations a year from now, yes, there'd be some concern.

1) Konecny is now playing with Couturier and Giroux -- a role that took some time to be ready for -- is doing well and should only continue to improve. He's still only 20 years old and is on a 30-point pace despite all his trials and tribulations. That's not a disaster.

2) Provorov benefited from the extra year of junior hockey and made an instant NHL impact; he's going to be the Flyers' cornerstone defenseman for a long time.

3) Hägg took a long road to the NHL, is now a regular and holding his own. There are things he still needs to improve, in some aspects considerably, but he is already reliable in his number one job, which is to defend well below the dots and be strong on the walls -- that is the main thing the decision makers look for (and it would be the same if he played elsewhere. FYI, other NHL teams' scouts have said in press box conversations that the Flyers did a real good job with Hägg and consider him about as steady as a rookie in his role can be expected to be).

4) Laughton is also a protracted development cycle guy, but has found an NHL role that he's pretty good at doing.

5) Patrick will be fine. Don't go by a half-season or even a full season of rookie numbers. With him, it's going to be a matter of those flashes we see turning into more frequent effectiveness. Right now, he still loses a lot of the battles that he will eventually win. It will take more time, but it will come.

6) Sanheim is your typical rookie NHL d-man at his age. Provorov spoiled us a year ago. A bit like Patrick, there have been flashes (actually a smattering of full games) where you can see Sanheim making an impact. Right now, he's basically a defenseman version of where Konecny was a year ago and for portions of the first half this year. Eventually, he'll be fine. However, I do agree that it would be better if he was playing for the Phantoms than sitting out a prolonged stretch in the NHL as a healthy scratch. He's already pretty good up-ice, but will only get better. Defensively, he's inconsistent but will also improve over time.

7) Leier right now is kind of where Laughton was a couple years ago..... very good two-way AHL guy, good skater, struggling to be effective in NHL (after a strong camp and good early start). He's never going to get the role/minutes he had with the Phantoms but he could figure it out still enough to be a good "modern day 4th liner" (meaning there needs to be some offense).

9) With Morin, the team was kind of at rookie saturation point on defense -- tough enough to break in two rookies, let alone 3 -- and then he got injured when the opportunity arose. He's close to being ready to return to the Phantoms lineup and hopefully doesn't get reinjured. If Sanheim goes down to the AHL for awhile, perhaps Morin comes up. He was uneven in his play during his brief Flyers stint this season -- nothing alarming but nothing that screamed "instant impact player", either, in proportion to the outcry for him. Sam will be fine. He's a good young D man.

10) The organization made the right call on Lindblom with a half-year in the AHL. When he comes up --- not sure when that will be, but I do think he's ready -- I think he'll become what many of us (myself included) hoped he'd be right from the outset. Sometimes it just takes a little extra time. Personally, I'd like to see him plugged into the role Raffl plays right now and for Raffl to go back to the 4th line. As Lindblom matures, you'll see more regular offense out of him in the NHL than you'll get (except in short spurts) from Raffl in a top-nine role.
- bmeltzer

I disagree with some of these assessments.

I haven't really seen much improvement from a lot of these guys. That's my primary concern.

I think people are overrating Provorov at this time in his career. He's really a 2nd pairing Dman IMO and he was a second pairing Dman last year. I expect him to improve and become a top pairing caliber player, but people are really getting ahead of themselves projecting him as a future Norris contender.

Ghost is the same player he's always been. His play in his own zone is still a mess and hasn't improved at all. People are just more willing to overlook it because the puck is going in the net for him this year.

I still like Konecny and I think he'll bounce back, but he's just another in the long list of young players who is struggling. I don't think Hak has done him many favors over the last couple years.

Hagg is completely overrated in my eyes. I'm not sure why the team and scouts are so high on him. If I were Hexy, I would be looking to move him ASAP. It's great that he's good along the boards, but he hasn't been very good away from the boards. He's been buoyed by an unsustainable save percentage and his "poor play" of late is just regression to the mean. He concedes the blue line way too easily and isn't efficient enough in the neutral zone.

I'm definitely concerned about Patrick and I don't just assume he'll develop and be fine. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean we can't use some of this season to project his future. He's been completely overwhelmed and likely doesn't belong in the NHL yet. He hasn't really shown anything and rarely does anything that leads you to believe in a future where he becomes a major difference maker. I'm not saying he needs to be a top 6 forward right now, but it's concerning that he's not even an NHL caliber forward right now.

Leier is a 4th liner and Laughton has shown some ability to be an effective bottom 6 player. I'm not sure we should give development too much credit for a 1st round pick being a bottom six player, but whatevs.

Morin and Sanheim should both be playing in the NHL every night and this is where I really don't like what the team is doing. I'll never understand why they won't just play these guys over vets like Manning and MacDonald. They need the NHL time. They are going to make mistakes and lose games. So what!? That's basically how most talented players break into the NHL. In fact, young players have sometimes said that breaking in with bad teams is easier because they can play through their problems without worrying. It's much harder to break in with a fringe playoff team that needs every point.