Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Vecchione's Outlook for 2017-18 and Beyond

I think Vecchione has 3 roadblocks ahead of him for making the team this October.

1. Glut of depth at center
2. He has little or no experience at wing and I doubt he starts gaining it at the NHL level
3. He's waiver exempt.

I just want to clarify my post from yesterday. Of course I'm sad that a beloved family member and friend of people passed away. And to anyone who was a fan of his work, I'm sure he will be missed. I just don't consider his work to be of any significant influence on the musical world.

I think Vecchione has 3 roadblocks ahead of him for making the team this October.

1. Glut of depth at center
2. He has little or no experience at wing and I doubt he starts gaining it at the NHL level
3. He's waiver exempt.
- BiggE

Agreed. Even with getting rid of our entire 4th line last year, he's got an uphill battle going forward. Probably a top-6 player at the AHL level who could be long-term call-up.

Is it possible that Lehtera could be waived a la AMac if the other forwards (i.e. Laughton, Leier, Veccione, etc.) outplay him in camp? I don't think any of the potential bottom-6 forwards or any of the defensemen outside of Ghost/Provorov/Gudas should take opening night for granted, so I don't think the "Veterans don't really try in preseason" reasoning holds much water this year.

Is it possible that Lehtera could be waived a la AMac if the other forwards (i.e. Laughton, Leier, Veccione, etc.) outplay him in camp? I don't think any of the potential bottom-6 forwards or any of the defensemen outside of Ghost/Provorov/Gudas should take opening night for granted, so I don't think the "Veterans don't really try in preseason" reasoning holds much water this year.
- jmatchett383

I personally don't see Lehtera being waived or act as the 13th forward.

jkl;

Is it possible that Lehtera could be waived a la AMac if the other forwards (i.e. Laughton, Leier, Veccione, etc.) outplay him in camp? I don't think any of the potential bottom-6 forwards or any of the defensemen outside of Ghost/Provorov/Gudas should take opening night for granted, so I don't think the "Veterans don't really try in preseason" reasoning holds much water this year.
- jmatchett383

My opinion is that Lehtera is playing this year, and playing a lot (65-70g). I do not think Hextall would have acquired him without thinking the same thing, but I'm not Hextall.

My gut is telling me a 'vet' forward gets moved prior to camp, and Leier and Veccione go to the Phantoms.

Is it possible that Lehtera could be waived a la AMac if the other forwards (i.e. Laughton, Leier, Veccione, etc.) outplay him in camp? I don't think any of the potential bottom-6 forwards or any of the defensemen outside of Ghost/Provorov/Gudas should take opening night for granted, so I don't think the "Veterans don't really try in preseason" reasoning holds much water this year.
- jmatchett383

I suppose he could be waived, but I don't think they want to carry guys like Vecchione or Leier as spare forwards, so unless they are in the top 12 they are both likely going down to LHV. This would leave Lehtera in the top 14 and he would be a spare forward if he's not in the top 12.

My opinion is that Lehtera is playing this year, and playing a lot (65-70g). I do not think Hextall would have acquired him without thinking the same thing, but I'm not Hextall.

My gut is telling me a 'vet' forward gets moved prior to camp, and Leier and Veccione go to the Phantoms.
- VladDrag

I don't think anyone will get moved prior to or in camp. The best value for any of these guys is likely at or near the trade deadline. Plus, if Vecchione and Leier are in LHV that leaves them with 14 forwards including Patrick, Lindblom and Laughton and they will probably carry 14 to start the season.

I think they'd rather carry Leier as a spare forward than put him on waivers. As they did with Cousins last year.

I don't think anyone will get moved prior to or in camp. The best value for any of these guys is likely at or near the trade deadline. Plus, if Vecchione and Leier are in LHV that leaves them with 14 forwards including Patrick, Lindblom and Laughton and they will probably carry 14 to start the season.
- BiggE

That's a good point. I was thinking they needed to move 3, not 2 before the season.

I think they'd rather carry Leier as a spare forward than put him on waivers. As they did with Cousins last year.
- Feanor

Maybe, but I think there is little to no chance that they would lose Leier in waivers and they are much deeper when it comes to bottom 6 forwards than they were last season.

I think they'd rather carry Leier as a spare forward than put him on waivers. As they did with Cousins last year.
- Feanor

What about Weal?

Im still 50/50 on this. Last cuts could be the best time to try to sneak him through waivers, but they could also move Lindblom/Vecchione down at first. I like Leier a lot and I would not want to lose him for nothing, but that this point he still needs to show a little bit more in the way of long term NHL usefulness.

I think they'd rather carry Leier as a spare forward than put him on waivers. As they did with Cousins last year.
- Feanor

Last year was a bit different than this year, in terms of forward depth, so I don't think is an apples to apples comparison. But, in your opinion who do they send down/move etc to get to 13 or 14 forwards?

Bill,

Thanks for bringing up Vecchione. He presents one of the pleasant problems facing the Flyers this year...Too many players who probably should be in the NHL as apposed to not enough.

IMHO, the thing that could set Vecchione above Laughton or maybe even Read at this point (since he has suffered at least two leg related injuries) is his skating. He recovery time is better and his first step is better. At top speed, he may not be noticeably faster, but he gets to that speed better and in close quarters. Laughton has a lot of untapped upside. He was never going to be a big NHL scorer, but he could realistically reach the levels that Cooter currently scores at.

My crystal ball sees this training camp as being a lot more open and less settled than some recent camps. There are a lot of decisions to be made about who is going where. Patrick making the team (and I don't think that is 100%, but better than 50%), can he play with the big boys? Who will be on G's left wing? Who will take PEB's shifts on PK? Who will replace Vande? And that is before we start looking at the blueline....

Last year was a bit different than this year, in terms of forward depth, so I don't think is an apples to apples comparison. But, in your opinion who do they send down/move etc to get to 13 or 14 forwards?
- VladDrag

It's definitely an apples to oranges comparison. Prior to last season, Cousins, a natural center had played 47 NHL games, scored 6 goals and 11 points, was a +6 and was averaging over 10 minutes a game during the 36 games played in 15-16.

Leier, a winger, has only played in 16 NHL games to date with 1 goal, 2 points a -1 and was given an average of 8.5 minutes a game.

I really don't see much risk in exposing Leier to waivers.

What about Weal?

Im still 50/50 on this. Last cuts could be the best time to try to sneak him through waivers, but they could also move Lindblom/Vecchione down at first. I like Leier a lot and I would not want to lose him for nothing, but that this point he still needs to show a little bit more in the way of long term NHL usefulness.
- YuenglingJagr

I love the fact that the entire 4th line is different from last season. Just this change alone will make the Flyers a better team.

Regardless of the 3 players that are iced on the 4th line this season, it will be a clear skills upgrade over the line that was iced last season.

Maybe, but I think there is little to no chance that they would lose Leier in waivers and they are much deeper when it comes to bottom 6 forwards than they were last season.
- BiggE

Training camp is going to be very interesting....we can debate how it's all going to shake out but these positions and decisions will be decided at camp. Guys like Leier and Laughton are young guys whom have really gotten better in the last 1 1/2 years.....will they make that jump again this year and force their way on ? Sanheim and Myers? Depends on camp. You can't look at what a guy was last year.....especially the young guys. I too have gut feelings but this year there could be an argument for 10 new guys compared to who started out opening night last year on the roster.

What about Weal?
- YuenglingJagr

Weal only played 14 games in 15-16 so that made him safe to waive. He basically lost a whole season, only playing 131 total minutes.

Leier would probably get thru waivers, but they might not want to risk it if they think the odds of him being claimed are around 20%.

I love the fact that the entire 4th line is different from last season. Just this change alone will make the Flyers a better team.

Regardless of the 3 players that are iced on the 4th line this season, it will be a clear skills upgrade over the line that was iced last season.
- ggunky

It sure will. Hakstol could barely ice an unskilled line if he tried.

I love the fact that the entire 4th line is different from last season. Just this change alone will make the Flyers a better team.

Regardless of the 3 players that are iced on the 4th line this season, it will be a clear skills upgrade over the line that was iced last season.
- ggunky

I'm way more excited about the additions to the blueline than whatever we are gonna have on the 4th line.

Last year was a bit different than this year, in terms of forward depth, so I don't think is an apples to apples comparison. But, in your opinion who do they send down/move etc to get to 13 or 14 forwards?
- VladDrag

Ideally, they take advantage of Bargain Bin in Montreal and get a decent pick back for Weise.

More likely, they make yet another trade with Arizona, to give them Read, possibly with retention. Then they could start with these 14 forwards.

Filppula-Giroux-Konecny
Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
Weal-Patrick-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton/Lehtera-Weise
Leier

Weal only played 14 games in 15-16 so that made him safe to waive. He basically lost a whole season, only playing 131 total minutes.

Leier would probably get thru waivers, but they might not want to risk it if they think the odds of him being claimed are around 20%.
- Feanor

Although each situation is always unique, I think Leier is easily comparable to Weal when it comes to waivers. Both had AHL success.

It is very difficult to see right now, but I don't see many spots open around the league either. Almost every team has realized the importance of drafting and have their own guys to add. Injuries change that, but there are also lots of guys that I see getting PTOs too

I'm way more excited about the additions to the blueline than whatever we are gonna have on the 4th line.
- johndewar

LOL! I didnt mean to say that was all i was excited about.

I can't wait to see and read about the training camp and pre-season. I want to see and read about the battles that are taking place all over the line-up.

I don't thing i have ever been this excited about, and full of anticipation for, the Flyers training camp and pre-season.