John Gove: Lightning Season Not a Failure

No way to sugar coat it, this team underachieved. All teams deal with injuries, just ask the Penguins and they had over 100 points.

The team started the year underachieving and dug a hole too deep to climb out of. That is where any underachieving label ends.

Hard to qualify a team that near the bottom of standings before the deadline, and after injuries and trades was down 5 centers for a time, yet still legitimately hung in to the end underachieving.

It's pretty black and white, IMHO. Any team that did not make the playoffs = failed season.

It's pretty black and white, IMHO. Any team that did not make the playoffs = failed season.
- Streit2ThePoint

This.

And when the leafs fail to win the cup=failed season

And when the leafs fail to win the cup=failed season
- mitch24

Yes.


This is not a hard concept.

They were hyped up so much after their SCF loss in 2015 as the team of the future, the favorite for the Cup, etc.

No matter what the other details are, the fact that 2 years later they aren't even in the playoffs is SHOCKING if you ask me.

I just don't get how with that much talent they didn't at least make the playoffs. IMO the Penguins had even worse injury luck and didn't miss a beat. Other teams had to deal with crushing injuries as well.

IMO had they kept the team together at the TDL and gotten Stamkos back from injury they, at least on paper, could have seriously challenged the Pens and Caps.

Instead they're out of the post season, in need of some roster retooling, heading in the wrong direction for the 2nd straight year.

They were hyped up so much after their SCF loss in 2015 as the team of the future, the favorite for the Cup, etc.

No matter what the other details are, the fact that 2 years later they aren't even in the playoffs is SHOCKING if you ask me.

I just don't get how with that much talent they didn't at least make the playoffs. IMO the Penguins had even worse injury luck and didn't miss a beat. Other teams had to deal with crushing injuries as well.

IMO had they kept the team together at the TDL and gotten Stamkos back from injury they, at least on paper, could have seriously challenged the Pens and Caps.

Instead they're out of the post season, in need of some roster retooling, heading in the wrong direction for the 2nd straight year.
- SimpleJack

I really don't think Brian Boyle, Valteri Filppula and Ben Bishop would have made that big of a difference

Bishop you could argue. But if they made the playoffs and got eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round then he walked for nothing in the offseason everyone would be complaining anyway.

They were hyped up so much after their SCF loss in 2015 as the team of the future, the favorite for the Cup, etc.

No matter what the other details are, the fact that 2 years later they aren't even in the playoffs is SHOCKING if you ask me.

I just don't get how with that much talent they didn't at least make the playoffs. IMO the Penguins had even worse injury luck and didn't miss a beat. Other teams had to deal with crushing injuries as well.

IMO had they kept the team together at the TDL and gotten Stamkos back from injury they, at least on paper, could have seriously challenged the Pens and Caps.

Instead they're out of the post season, in need of some roster retooling, heading in the wrong direction for the 2nd straight year.
- SimpleJack

Yeah cause Kucherov becoming a top 10 player in the NHL (possibly top 5), Hedman solidifying himself as a top 3 NHL dman, ridding the roster of bad Cap hits like Filp and bad players like Boyle, but finding internal replacements with legitimate upside (Brayden Point, Dotchin, Gourde) and Drouin finally getting to showcase how good he is is moving in the wrong direction. At some point injuries become insurmountable. It happens, but I guarantee the Lightning will be back with a vengeance next season and be another favorite come playoff time (if the injuries are minimal of course.)

This season : failure.

No excuses. Injuries are an excuse.

The Lightning played some stinker games early in the season. They had an extended losing streak at one point. Everything that happened before February was a dumpster fire. Losing Stamkos threw gas on that fire, but it's still not an excuse.

From February until the end of the regular season, Tampa was one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league. The Bolts were on a roll, even when half of the roster was AHL callups.

Kucherov has proven to be an elite talent.

Drouin has silenced all doubters.

Point has emerged has a genuine Top-6 center.

Dotchin has emerged as a legit Top-4 defender.

After some growing pains, Vasy is showing he is an upgrade over Bishop.

I think next season will be a good one for the Bolts. If they can find a way to shed Callahan's contract, then they will be in good shape. I figure Garrison is probably gone as well.

Drouin - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Namestnikov - Gourde/Erne/Brown

Hedman, Stralman, Dotchin, Coburn, Koekkoek gives us a decent top-5 and if we can add another legit top-2 or top-4 defender, then I like our chances.

I think the Lightning will bounce back next season and challenge for the division title. Overall, this entire season must have felt like a blow-out loss of a game, so I expect the entire team will want to respond with a strong showing next season. I see this disappointing season as a temporary speed bump and not the beginning of a decline.

Stamkos was on fire before the injury. He will have all summer to train and rehab. I expect he will put up gaudy numbers next season if he can stay healthy.

In the meantime, I am just about done with hockey until next season. I could care less who wins the Cup now. I have almost no interest in watching any of the games. If I had to root for somebody, I would probably root for the Blues or the Leafs. The Blues are my hometown team and have never won a Cup. The Leafs have suffered through an epic dumpster fire and they are the classic underdog team. It would be fun to see either one of them go on a deep run.

If Pittsburgh wins it again.....(*yawn*)

If Boston wins it.... (*yawn*)

If Washington wins it.... (*yawn*), but good for Ovi.

If anybody in the West except the Blues win it.... (*yawn*)

See you folks next season.

And when the leafs fail to win the cup=failed season
- mitch24

Any season that you fail to win the ultimate prize is a failed season.

Did the Leafs expect to win the Cup this season? No. Was their target to make forward strides and did they succeed in that? Yes.

But, and I will repeat this again for clarity, any season that you don't win the Cup is failure. Some failures are just tougher to swallow.

This season : failure.

No excuses. Injuries are an excuse.

The Lightning played some stinker games early in the season. They had an extended losing streak at one point. Everything that happened before February was a dumpster fire. Losing Stamkos threw gas on that fire, but it's still not an excuse.

From February until the end of the regular season, Tampa was one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league. The Bolts were on a roll, even when half of the roster was AHL callups.

Kucherov has proven to be an elite talent.

Drouin has silenced all doubters.

Point has emerged has a genuine Top-6 center.

Dotchin has emerged as a legit Top-4 defender.

After some growing pains, Vasy is showing he is an upgrade over Bishop.

I think next season will be a good one for the Bolts. If they can find a way to shed Callahan's contract, then they will be in good shape. I figure Garrison is probably gone as well.

Drouin - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Namestnikov - Gourde/Erne/Brown

Hedman, Stralman, Dotchin, Coburn, Koekkoek gives us a decent top-5 and if we can add another legit top-2 or top-4 defender, then I like our chances.

I think the Lightning will bounce back next season and challenge for the division title. Overall, this entire season must have felt like a blow-out loss of a game, so I expect the entire team will want to respond with a strong showing next season. I see this disappointing season as a temporary speed bump and not the beginning of a decline.

Stamkos was on fire before the injury. He will have all summer to train and rehab. I expect he will put up gaudy numbers next season if he can stay healthy.

In the meantime, I am just about done with hockey until next season. I could care less who wins the Cup now. I have almost no interest in watching any of the games. If I had to root for somebody, I would probably root for the Blues or the Leafs. The Blues are my hometown team and have never won a Cup. The Leafs have suffered through an epic dumpster fire and they are the classic underdog team. It would be fun to see either one of them go on a deep run.

If Pittsburgh wins it again.....(*yawn*)

If Boston wins it.... (*yawn*)

If Washington wins it.... (*yawn*), but good for Ovi.

If anybody in the West except the Blues win it.... (*yawn*)

See you folks next season.
- GalacticStone

Enjoy your summer. I will be watching the playoffs since it is the best hockey of the season. I expect Washington will come out to the East but I would like the Blue Jackets to do well. In the West, I would like to see the Wild do well. Not very likely.

In my fantasy league, I was fortunate to be able to draft Hedman and Palat. Palat had a terrible first half but Hedman was a stud all season. I also picked up Drouin and Point. Good to monitor their develop. I still think Drouin is inconsistent but will improve. Point looks like a great kid.

Kucherov was amazing.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the expansion draft and RFA signings. Hope SY stays in Tampa and addresses the few holes in the lineup - defence and backup goalie

I expect next season will be different. The talent is there and they will be motivated.

Yeah cause Kucherov becoming a top 10 player in the NHL (possibly top 5), Hedman solidifying himself as a top 3 NHL dman, ridding the roster of bad Cap hits like Filp and bad players like Boyle, but finding internal replacements with legitimate upside (Brayden Point, Dotchin, Gourde) and Drouin finally getting to showcase how good he is is moving in the wrong direction. At some point injuries become insurmountable. It happens, but I guarantee the Lightning will be back with a vengeance next season and be another favorite come playoff time (if the injuries are minimal of course.)
- j.boyd919

Boyle is a 4th line center not a bad player. Boyle played above his station for most of the season. He at least he tried.

Boyle is a 4th line center not a bad player. Boyle played above his station for most of the season. He at least he tried.
- Leafsandbolts

Boyle is a replacement level player that could be replaced for like 1.25-1.5 million less. This season he was a beneficiary of playing with Drouin. On the flip side, Drouin was for some reason punished for not realized there are 2 nets because Coop's a dummy and had to play with Boyle. He did try, but for some reason Lightning fans (a lot of my friends down here) are fans of Boyle. Probably cause he looks like a Gasparilla pirate. But he's a replacement level player, can be replaced on the cheap and that extra 1.25 can be spent elsewhere.

Changing your tune from bad to expensive?

Changing your tune from bad to expensive?
- Leafsandbolts

Not at all, I don't think Boyle is good at all. He's a replacement level player.

Boyle is a replacement level player that could be replaced for like 1.25-1.5 million less. This season he was a beneficiary of playing with Drouin. On the flip side, Drouin was for some reason punished for not realized there are 2 nets because Coop's a dummy and had to play with Boyle. He did try, but for some reason Lightning fans (a lot of my friends down here) are fans of Boyle. Probably cause he looks like a Gasparilla pirate. But he's a replacement level player, can be replaced on the cheap and that extra 1.25 can be spent elsewhere.
- j.boyd919

JT Brown is a replacement level player

Boyle is alot more of a player than JT Brown. Find me a NHL player for the minimum salary that is equal to Boyle b/c at $2M salary and savings of $1.25M we are looking at a player playing right around the NHL minimum.

Example: Erik Condra has a cap hit of $1.25M and is buried in Syracuse. Boyle is better than Condra.

JT Brown is a replacement level player

Boyle is alot more of a player than JT Brown. Find me a NHL player for the minimum salary that is equal to Boyle b/c at $2M salary and savings of $1.25M we are looking at a player playing right around the NHL minimum.

Example: Erik Condra has a cap hit of $1.25M and is buried in Syracuse. Boyle is better than Condra.
- uf1910

Sam Gagner
Jonathan Marchessault
Matt Cullen (1mil)
Yanni Gourde is probably going to be better than Boyle.

Lightning centers next season should be Stammer, Johnson, Point, Namestnikov, Gourde

My point, is that teams shouldn't overpay for depth options. 4th line minutes aren't a lot, and using internal options from Syracuse (such as Gourde) is a better option, and that gives you more dough for Johnson/Palat/Drouin/Defense/etc.

Sam Gagner
Jonathan Marchessault
Matt Cullen (1mil)
Yanni Gourde is probably going to be better than Boyle.

Lightning centers next season should be Stammer, Johnson, Point, Namestnikov, Gourde

My point, is that teams shouldn't overpay for depth options. 4th line minutes aren't a lot, and using internal options from Syracuse (such as Gourde) is a better option, and that gives you more dough for Johnson/Palat/Drouin/Defense/etc.
- j.boyd919

Marchy just scored 30 goals this year...you think he's gonna get the NHL minimum?

Gourde is a UFA this year and probably headed overseas unless someone gives him more than the NHL minimum

I'm not going anywhere near San Gagner no matter the cost

Cullen is a reasonable example

I'm not trying to say Boyle isn't a bottom 6er if not a true 4th line type player. But a replacement level player is a plugger (JT Brown). Boyle is more than that and thus should be paid a little more than the plugger types.

Would you accept Boyle at $1.5 b/c I guarantee he gets more than the minimum but doubtful he gets the $2M he got from us. I know we disagree on whether he's coming back but curious what you think he should get

Marchy just scored 30 goals this year...you think he's gonna get the NHL minimum?

Gourde is a UFA this year and probably headed overseas unless someone gives him more than the NHL minimum

I'm not going anywhere near San Gagner no matter the cost

Cullen is a reasonable example

I'm not trying to say Boyle isn't a bottom 6er if not a true 4th line type player. But a replacement level player is a plugger (JT Brown). Boyle is more than that and thus should be paid a little more than the plugger types.

Would you accept Boyle at $1.5 b/c I guarantee he gets more than the minimum but doubtful he gets the $2M he got from us. I know we disagree on whether he's coming back but curious what you think he should get
- uf1910

Wasn't necessarily talking about next season or what not, I'm just saying that the options are always there. Gagner just put up 50 points for under 1mil. I don't see Boyle as any more than a plugger. Some team will pay for his leadership/"defense"/experience, but it sure as poop wouldn't be my team. I watched the Pens give 4th liners (ala Craig Adams) contracts worth too much, with too much term.

What I THINK he should get.. 1mil/2 years (Cullen-esque contract). What I think he WILL get... 2.35mil/3 years, but a contending team close to the cap shouldn't do that. (Lightning/Pens/Hawks/etc.) but a younger team with some cap room might (TOR resign/EDM/CAR/etc.) but I still don't think it's a good move.

Marchy just scored 30 goals this year...you think he's gonna get the NHL minimum?

Gourde is a UFA this year and probably headed overseas unless someone gives him more than the NHL minimum

I'm not going anywhere near San Gagner no matter the cost

Cullen is a reasonable example

I'm not trying to say Boyle isn't a bottom 6er if not a true 4th line type player. But a replacement level player is a plugger (JT Brown). Boyle is more than that and thus should be paid a little more than the plugger types.

Would you accept Boyle at $1.5 b/c I guarantee he gets more than the minimum but doubtful he gets the $2M he got from us. I know we disagree on whether he's coming back but curious what you think he should get
- uf1910

Nah Boyle sucks. You just have to see past him being tall and good at faceoffs.

Wasn't necessarily talking about next season or what not, I'm just saying that the options are always there. Gagner just put up 50 points for under 1mil. I don't see Boyle as any more than a plugger. Some team will pay for his leadership/"defense"/experience, but it sure as poop wouldn't be my team. I watched the Pens give 4th liners (ala Craig Adams) contracts worth too much, with too much term.

What I THINK he should get.. 1mil/2 years (Cullen-esque contract). What I think he WILL get... 2.35mil/3 years, but a contending team close to the cap shouldn't do that. (Lightning/Pens/Hawks/etc.) but a younger team with some cap room might (TOR resign/EDM/CAR/etc.) but I still don't think it's a good move.
- j.boyd919

For what it's worth, when Gagner got his cheap 1 year deal from Columbus he only put up 8G/8A in 53 games for the Flyers the year before. He certainly is due a raise after the year he had but to me he's still fool's gold (18 of his 50 pts came on PP) and if comparing to Boyle, Boyle is far and away a better overall player. Maybe not in points production but Boyle isn't paid based on his point production. He's one of the better PKers in the game, obvious leadership intangibles, and certainly defensively responsible player whereas Gagner can put up points but pretty much sucks anywhere other than the offensive zone.

Also worth mentioning that Cullen is age 39 which certainly had a part in his contract/AAV not to mention with Pens cap situation coupled with age and being on the cup winning team certainly helped him stay with Pitt for that salary.

I don't disagree that contending teams shouldn't overpay for the plugger types, but I do disagree lumping Boyle into the true plugger category with players like JT Brown. For me $2M for what Boyle brings is reasonable. Marchy is a scoring line player or bust. Gagner just plain sucks. Cullen is in the limelight of his career. Boyle at 32 still has plenty of years ahead of him which in turn is what I'm saying. You're trying to give Boyle a contract that aged or poopty players get at the end of free agency when all other options are exhausted and/or never existed.

I still contend he's coming back and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he got the same 3 yr/$2M aav contract. We can agree to disagree but I'd take Boyle as a bottom liner over any of the players you listed outside of Marchy, and quite honestly Marchy shouldn't be a bottom liner either way. He was bottom liner here b/c of our depth at forward which is also why he left for Sunrise and the opportunity to be on a scoring line. Cullen is certainly reasonable at $1M but how much longer does he have?

Nah Boyle sucks. You just have to see past him being tall and good at faceoffs.
- Feds91Stammer

He's one of the better PKers in hockey.