Dan Petriw: No Sleep IN Brooklyn?

From the other board

Take this for whatever you will. Laura Curran is the Democratic candidate for Nassau County Executive.


- eichiefs9

This is completely accurate. The corrupt and incompetent politicians in Nassau and the TOH completely created this situation by roadblocking every god d**n effort in the last 30 years to get a new or completely renovated arena built. Enough corrupt pieces of s**T weren't getting greased so the arena never got done.

Now, they're building a half-a**ed renovated version of what is currently there that, from the admittedly very limited things I've seen and read, is essentially a "lipstick on a pig" job of dressing up the same old dump with metal-looking wrapping paper on the outside and some new seats. its the same dump it was when the Isles left, only shinier. And we want this team to go back to that? Why? To go back to having to be a tenant of not only the corrupt county and town politicians, but also of Ratner, Prohkorov and Co? Because the commute is easier?

Even if they "retrofit" the stadium and cram another couple thousands seats into the NVMC, its still the same f**king building they left.

I think the biggest issue here that nobody is really considering is profitability TO THE ISLES' OWNERS. The Isles' owners didn't buy the team just for their love of hockey. They want to make money. Most of these owners OWN their own buildings and make money off of concerts, wrestling, supercross, Disney on ice s**t, etc. on days the team is off season or on the road. By going back to NVMC how do the Isles' owners make $$ as tenants in the smallest building in the league that they do not own?

The tenant thing didn't work for the Isles in the NVMC the first time around. The team was barely able to reach the salary floor each season and operated at a $20M/year loss (albeit, lots of that had to do with the bad SMG lease). The tenant thing works for the team in Brooklyn because of the guaranteed $53.5M per year the arena gives them. Does anyone really think that Nassau and the TOH are going to pay the Isles $53.5M per year to return to Nassau? Doubtful. Those politicians are so f**king greedy they will look to sap every last buck out of any deal they make.

The best alternative to Barclays is the Isles' owners getting their own building. Yes, there are places it can be built. Yes, the owners probably have the capital to get it done (i figure at least $500M minimum to build a new arena of adequate capacity and amenities). The problem is this: who and what else are going to fill up the 320 dates per year the Isles don't have home games? There are three world-class arenas already in the area that will be vying for concerts and all that jazz. Can the area really support a fourth arena? Because if not, then the arena won't generate enough $$ to keep the doors open just on Isles' hockey.

At the end of the day, i think this nonsense first with the owners saying they're going to "explore their options" and Barclays leaking that they're going to end the lease after 2019 is all posturing to get back to the table and renegotiate the deal. I don't see the Isles getting their own building and I don't see a return to being a tenant in a substandard building as a better deal for the Isles and their owners than being a tenant in Brooklyn. It may be better for the fan base, but not for the team and owners financially.

I said i wasn't going to post about this arena crap again and i did anyway. I can't help myself, I guess.

great points here ^^

From the other board


This is completely accurate. The corrupt and incompetent politicians in Nassau and the TOH completely created this situation by roadblocking every god d**n effort in the last 30 years to get a new or completely renovated arena built. Enough corrupt pieces of s**T weren't getting greased so the arena never got done.

Now, they're building a half-a**ed renovated version of what is currently there that, from the admittedly very limited things I've seen and read, is essentially a "lipstick on a pig" job of dressing up the same old dump with metal-looking wrapping paper on the outside and some new seats. its the same dump it was when the Isles left, only shinier. And we want this team to go back to that? Why? To go back to having to be a tenant of not only the corrupt county and town politicians, but also of Ratner, Prohkorov and Co? Because the commute is easier?

Even if they "retrofit" the stadium and cram another couple thousands seats into the NVMC, its still the same f**king building they left.

I think the biggest issue here that nobody is really considering is profitability TO THE ISLES' OWNERS. The Isles' owners didn't buy the team just for their love of hockey. They want to make money. Most of these owners OWN their own buildings and make money off of concerts, wrestling, supercross, Disney on ice s**t, etc. on days the team is off season or on the road. By going back to NVMC how do the Isles' owners make $$ as tenants in the smallest building in the league that they do not own?

The tenant thing didn't work for the Isles in the NVMC the first time around. The team was barely able to reach the salary floor each season and operated at a $20M/year loss (albeit, lots of that had to do with the bad SMG lease). The tenant thing works for the team in Brooklyn because of the guaranteed $53.5M per year the arena gives them. Does anyone really think that Nassau and the TOH are going to pay the Isles $53.5M per year to return to Nassau? Doubtful. Those politicians are so f**king greedy they will look to sap every last buck out of any deal they make.

The best alternative to Barclays is the Isles' owners getting their own building. Yes, there are places it can be built. Yes, the owners probably have the capital to get it done (i figure at least $500M minimum to build a new arena of adequate capacity and amenities). The problem is this: who and what else are going to fill up the 320 dates per year the Isles don't have home games? There are three world-class arenas already in the area that will be vying for concerts and all that jazz. Can the area really support a fourth arena? Because if not, then the arena won't generate enough $$ to keep the doors open just on Isles' hockey.

At the end of the day, i think this nonsense first with the owners saying they're going to "explore their options" and Barclays leaking that they're going to end the lease after 2019 is all posturing to get back to the table and renegotiate the deal. I don't see the Isles getting their own building and I don't see a return to being a tenant in a substandard building as a better deal for the Isles and their owners than being a tenant in Brooklyn. It may be better for the fan base, but not for the team and owners financially.

I said i wasn't going to post about this arena crap again and i did anyway. I can't help myself, I guess.
- Jethro09

Excellent post Jethro. Going back to the Coli may be good for many Isles fans, but what's in it for the owners? Seems no great options for the Isles at this point.

Excellent post Jethro. Going back to the Coli may be good for many Isles fans, but what's in it for the owners? Seems no great options for the Isles at this point.
- ses111

Agreed. If only they could fix the ice in Brooklyn, they could live with the obstructed view seats.....

Does this mean JT is gone? I would say they need him and will build a stadium near Citi Field.

Barcalys don't want to pay the money because they are making enough on other events if not more. A third stadium is needed as MSG is way too expensive for many families to attend events. Also being near Flushing area the growth of Asian type events is growing. The access to Long Island and queens affluent neighborhoods that can support events and hockey make it even a better bet for a stadium. Yes Suffolk county folk and Nassau south aren't as well serviced for Queens location but it's still better then downtown Brooklyn.

Excellent post Jethro. Going back to the Coli may be good for many Isles fans, but what's in it for the owners? Seems no great options for the Isles at this point.
- ses111

A total lack of financial exposure and risk. No need to pay back investors and/or recoup their own capital spent to build a half-billion dollar structure. No need to worry about scheduling non-hockey entertainment to keep the arena from turning into a giant money-pit.

Jethro's point about needing to fill the arena on nights that the Islanders aren't playing is a really good one. I doubt musical acts are going to come to NYC and want to play: MSG, Barclays, Prudential Center, the Coliseum, AND Belmont/Willets Point arena. At some point you're just flooding the market with another arena and diluting the chance that everyone gets to be viable. The Nets D-league team is going to the Coliseum. Are you going to move the Sound Tigers (or another AHL team) to the arena? Even if you did, you're not getting much revenue from an AHL team.

There are a lot of perks for Ledecky and Malkin. Sure, they don't own the arena but there is a lot of financial risk that comes with owning something. I'm sure they'd work out a deal that didn't (frank) them like the old contract with SMG did.

Does this mean JT is gone? I would say they need him and will build a stadium near Citi Field.

Barcalys don't want to pay the money because they are making enough on other events if not more. A third stadium is needed as MSG is way too expensive for many families to attend events. Also being near Flushing area the growth of Asian type events is growing. The access to Long Island and queens affluent neighborhoods that can support events and hockey make it even a better bet for a stadium. Yes Suffolk county folk and Nassau south aren't as well serviced for Queens location but it's still better then downtown Brooklyn.
- Nuck4U

Could you please define "Asian type events"?

Could you please define "Asian type events"?
- eichiefs9

I called wins vs Columbus and Habs, tonight going to be a tough task. For starters Caps are red hot and also we beat them last two times we played them. 3 in a row would be a tremendous feat.

if we pull it off, in the words of McFadden & Whitehead "aint no stopping us now"

I hope im wrong. LETS GO Islanders. Im been fine with good hard fought point. just as long as we beat Flyers, Toronto, Carolina etc

Even if they fixed the ice making system in the off season Barclays wouldn't do it because of lost revenue while the arena is down. Do you think the isles can negotiate that and find common ground and then fix it and stay?

LI is where this team belongs but if the Coliseum can't be an option what else could it be? The Belmont racetrack area?

Does this mean JT is gone? I would say they need him and will build a stadium near Citi Field.

Barcalys don't want to pay the money because they are making enough on other events if not more. A third stadium is needed as MSG is way too expensive for many families to attend events. Also being near Flushing area the growth of Asian type events is growing. The access to Long Island and queens affluent neighborhoods that can support events and hockey make it even a better bet for a stadium. Yes Suffolk county folk and Nassau south aren't as well serviced for Queens location but it's still better then downtown Brooklyn.
- Nuck4U

Barclays would love to keep the team, if they made more $$ off them. If they were paying out say, $40M as opposed to $53.5M, and they made more money from the Isles being there, then they'd want to keep them. Truth is, I still think they want to keep them and this is just a negotiating tactic. Better to have a guaranteed 41 occupied dates on your calendar then to hope you can make up those dates and revenue through other events that need to be scheduled.

IF both sides WANT to continue the relationship, there's a middle ground to be found. The Barclays can pay out less guaranteed per year for the team in return for the team perhaps getting some of the gate or concessions, should sales hit certain numbers. The Isles should also demand that if they are taking less $ to stay there that the arena MUST rip up the plumbing and put in state-of-the-art plumbing to support an NHL-quality sheet of ice.

There's a way to salvage this relationship and truth is, it may be the only relationship that makes any sense for the Isles ownership from a financial standpoint. Remember, its business. The arena and the owners are in it to make money.

Could you please define "Asian type events"?
- eichiefs9

A total lack of financial exposure and risk. No need to pay back investors and/or recoup their own capital spent to build a half-billion dollar structure. No need to worry about scheduling non-hockey entertainment to keep the arena from turning into a giant money-pit.

Jethro's point about needing to fill the arena on nights that the Islanders aren't playing is a really good one. I doubt musical acts are going to come to NYC and want to play: MSG, Barclays, Prudential Center, the Coliseum, AND Belmont/Willets Point arena. At some point you're just flooding the market with another arena and diluting the chance that everyone gets to be viable. The Nets D-league team is going to the Coliseum. Are you going to move the Sound Tigers (or another AHL team) to the arena? Even if you did, you're not getting much revenue from an AHL team.

There are a lot of perks for Ledecky and Malkin. Sure, they don't own the arena but there is a lot of financial risk that comes with owning something. I'm sure they'd work out a deal that didn't (frank) them like the old contract with SMG did.
- eichiefs9

If Ledecky and Malkin weren't making out great on this deal, then the Barclays wouldn't be threatening to end the relationship after 2019. A guaranteed $53.5M from the arena plus the cable contract is a huge chunk of guaranteed money to get every year without, as you put it, the headache of owning their own bldg, having to schedule events for the other 320 nights/year, etc. Yes, they're kind of capped at what they can make, but its guaranteed profit. That's piece of mind.

A total lack of financial exposure and risk. No need to pay back investors and/or recoup their own capital spent to build a half-billion dollar structure. No need to worry about scheduling non-hockey entertainment to keep the arena from turning into a giant money-pit.

Jethro's point about needing to fill the arena on nights that the Islanders aren't playing is a really good one. I doubt musical acts are going to come to NYC and want to play: MSG, Barclays, Prudential Center, the Coliseum, AND Belmont/Willets Point arena. At some point you're just flooding the market with another arena and diluting the chance that everyone gets to be viable. The Nets D-league team is going to the Coliseum. Are you going to move the Sound Tigers (or another AHL team) to the arena? Even if you did, you're not getting much revenue from an AHL team.

There are a lot of perks for Ledecky and Malkin. Sure, they don't own the arena but there is a lot of financial risk that comes with owning something. I'm sure they'd work out a deal that didn't (frank) them like the old contract with SMG did.
- eichiefs9

I'm not sure what kind of business the Coli people are expecting with this revamped building? Like you mentioned, what kind of musical acts are going to want to play this venue? This entire project does not make a lot of sense to me.

There is a ton of unknowns until we hear from Ledecky and Malkin and we find out exactly what they are looking for in terms of an existing or new building.

Could you please define "Asian type events"?
- eichiefs9

Cultural and Concert types that can draw large crowds if stadium access is cheaper then MSG. Even Bollywood type live shows from the Forrest Hills and Jackson Heights areas. Location is very key to opening up opportunities. It also brings in the Hispanic influences too. But the big money is in the Asian Community. Where cost barriers can be overcome for Korean and Chinese oriented events. That could be a good tax incentive mandate to open up doors to communities for use of congragating in a large climate controlled space. Local politicians would be behind this for sure. But that's a side benefit to the main stream events and opportunities for all sectors of the community. From going to Hockey games to Disney on ice. Big family draws that are more accesable then out of way Brooklyn and too far and expensive MSG.

I'm not sure what kind of business the Coli people are expecting with this revamped building? Like you mentioned, what kind of musical acts are going to want to play this venue? This entire project does not make a lot of sense to me.

There is a ton of unknowns until we hear from Ledecky and Malkin and we find out exactly what they are looking for in terms of an existing or new building.
- ses111

They still had a decent amount of big(ger) name acts coming to the old Coliseum and that place was a nightmare. Maybe they won't have the upper-echelon of musical talent kicking down their door, but I have no doubt they will get plenty of big draw musicians/bands.

Cultural and Concert types that can draw large crowds if stadium access is cheaper then MSG. Even Bollywood type live shows from the Forrest Hills and Jackson Heights areas. Location is very key to opening up opportunities. It also brings in the Hispanic influences too. But the big money is in the Asian Community. Where cost barriers can be overcome for Korean and Chinese oriented events. That could be a good tax incentive mandate to open up doors to communities for use of congragating in a large climate controlled space. Local politicians would be behind this for sure. But that's a side benefit to the main stream events and opportunities for all sectors of the community. From going to Hockey games to Disney on ice. Big family draws that are more accesable then out of way Brooklyn and too far and expensive MSG.
- Nuck4U

Fair enough. I'm still pretty confused but you seem to be well-versed on it, so I will defer to your opinion on this one.

Asian type events

They still had a decent amount of big(ger) name acts coming to the old Coliseum and that place was a nightmare. Maybe they won't have the upper-echelon of musical talent kicking down their door, but I have no doubt they will get plenty of big draw musicians/bands.
- eichiefs9

Maybe the Lighthouse was too big, but it was a chance not to be minor league. LI seems to have a serious fear of progress and they want to keep everything 1950's.

Maybe the Lighthouse was too big, but it was a chance not to be minor league. LI seems to have a serious fear of progress and they want to keep everything 1950's.
- ses111

I wish we could just talk hickey of girls again

If Ledecky and Malkin weren't making out great on this deal, then the Barclays wouldn't be threatening to end the relationship after 2019. A guaranteed $53.5M from the arena plus the cable contract is a huge chunk of guaranteed money to get every year without, as you put it, the headache of owning their own bldg, having to schedule events for the other 320 nights/year, etc. Yes, they're kind of capped at what they can make, but its guaranteed profit. That's piece of mind.
- Jethro09

They also have $500 million dollar of capital tied up in the team that they're expecting some ROI from. They're really not making out that great

I wish we could just talk hickey of girls again
- Upstate_isles

So do I Upstate. Just not meant to be with this team.

Maybe the Lighthouse was too big, but it was a chance not to be minor league. LI seems to have a serious fear of progress and they want to keep everything 1950's.
- ses111

Long Island has a serious problem of corrupt politics. Just like its brethren in Albany, they're all running the Island with their hands out, looking for that next payoff. Truth is that on Long Island if you pay enough politicians enough money you can build whatever and wherever you want. Wang and Co. weren't greasing the politicians and special interests enough and that's why the zoning laws didn't get changed for the Lighthouse.