Ryan Wilson: Another third period comeback Another third period comeback

Being able to come back in games and win is a great characteristic for a team to have.

Second.

Shultz and Ian Cole. Nice playmaking and shooting. Who picked that to happen. No. One.

Penguins should have used the good charts earlier. Clearly, they were using the bad charts early on.

Shultz and Ian Cole. Nice playmaking and shooting. Who picked that to happen. No. One.
- powerhouse

They've been the most consistent defensive pairing this season. They've done a solid job so far this season.

So even though we all know that Ian Cole is the stay at home, defensive stalwart of that pairing, his fancy stats (which will always be just about the same as Schultz's, considering they're partners and have been all year) can somehow allow us to conclude that he is in fact "driving play?"

Shultz and Ian Cole. Nice playmaking and shooting. Who picked that to happen. No. One.

Damn straight.

Should Daley's career go the sh!ts, have we a potential replacement waiting we can sign? (Schultzy)

The team obviously plays better infront of Flower. Murray would snatch a pretty nice return in a trade. Pull that trigger.

So even though we all know that Ian Cole is the stay at home, defensive stalwart of that pairing, his fancy stats (which will always be just about the same as Schultz's, considering they're partners and have been all year) can somehow allow us to conclude that he is in fact "driving play?"


- hardnosed

Our 3rd pairing > most teams bottom 6 for matchups and possession stuff. Usage is basically the reason, they face easier competition and can control better vs it.

Grinder:

I'm starting to think Murray may just be the one that goes. I have said I thought JR had a taker for Flower, but now he came out & said that the 2 starter rotation isn't working & Flower is still here makes me nervous.

Playing Flower may be him trying to showcase a trade, but if there are no takers & with Jarry coming through the ranks Murray may be the 1 that is traded.

As a response to your comment last thread - playing a 'starter' in a rotating roster isn't ideal for either player. So when I say they are being put in a situation that's not ideal, they are being rotated & not getting a chance to make the crease their own. Starters need to start on a regular basis, neither of ours are & it's causing problems for both in my opinion.

lol

Let a 100 flowers bloom!

Grinder:

I'm starting to think Murray may just be the one that goes. I have said I thought JR had a taker for Flower, but now he came out & said that the 2 starter rotation isn't working & Flower is still here makes me nervous.

Playing Flower may be him trying to showcase a trade, but if there are no takers & with Jarry coming through the ranks Murray may be the 1 that is traded.

As a response to your comment last thread - playing a 'starter' in a rotating roster isn't ideal for either player. So when I say they are being put in a situation that's not ideal, they are being rotated & not getting a chance to make the crease their own. Starters need to start on a regular basis, neither of ours are & it's causing problems for both in my opinion.
- Aussiepenguin

That's not going to happen. No chance.

That's not going to happen. No chance.
- madmike71

Murray isn't going anywhere. I have to think giving Fleury more starts is to allow him to get into a groove and up his value.

Murray isn't going anywhere. I have to think giving Fleury more starts is to allow him to get into a groove and up his value.
- Rinosaur

Teams don't actually do that. Sullys been letting the winning goalie keep playing. I don't actually think they are going to trade either of them.

Teams don't actually do that. Sullys been letting the winning goalie keep playing. I don't actually think they are going to trade either of them.
- Grinder47

That would make sense if he kept playing Fleury after a win instead of a loss.

Matt Murray.

Expansion draft is big risks with Schultz

Expansion draft is big risks with Schultz
- sditulli

Isn't Schultz an UFA? Don't you have to be under contract to be exposed in the draft?

I'm kind of wondering if the Pens might not be smart to expose Maatta. I'm trying to stay positive about him. He is playing better, but unless he improves a bit more, I'm not sure he's worth his contract.

madmike71: I was thinking the same thing. Maatta is young, his stickwork is great, and he is a smart player. But he is slow and will always be slow. He is easily exposed when an opposing player comes into the zone on his side of the ice. Even if Maatta has a step on him, all the other player has to do is lower his shoulder and skate around him. I've seen this several times this year and it leads to good scoring chances when there really isn't much there.

$4M is in the range (maybe the low end even) for a good mid-pairing defensemen these days, but I think Maatta came along in the wrong era where his lack of speed will always be a liability. Someone brought up Timonen the other day. I see a lot of Timonen in Maatta (not just because they are both Finnish), but Timonen had the benefit of playing before speed was the name of the game. I think this is why Maatta dropped so far in the draft.

If the Pens could re-sign Schultz for under $2.5M and they decide to protect 3 defensemen (instead of 4), I think I would protect Schultz and expose Maatta knowing full well that Schultz is probably closer to his ceiling than Maatta is to his and Schultz may never be a quality second-pairing defenseman.

PS: Schultz is still a RFA. They might be wise to extend him but I don't know how that would impact the expansion draft.

madmike71: I was thinking the same thing. Maatta is young, his stickwork is great, and he is a smart player. But he is slow and will always be slow. He is easily exposed when an opposing player comes into the zone on his side of the ice. Even if Maatta has a step on him, all the other player has to do is lower his shoulder and skate around him. I've seen this several times this year and it leads to good scoring chances when there really isn't much there.

$4M is in the range (maybe the low end even) for a good mid-pairing defensemen these days, but I think Maatta came along in the wrong era where his lack of speed will always be a liability. Someone brought up Timonen the other day. I see a lot of Timonen in Maatta (not just because they are both Finnish), but Timonen had the benefit of playing before speed was the name of the game. I think this is why Maatta dropped so far in the draft.

If the Pens could re-sign Schultz for under $2.5M and they decide to protect 3 defensemen (instead of 4), I think I would protect Schultz and expose Maatta knowing full well that Schultz is probably closer to his ceiling than Maatta is to his and Schultz may never be a quality second-pairing defenseman.

PS: Schultz is still a RFA. They might be wise to extend him but I don't know how that would impact the expansion draft.
- T-Train

I swear Maatta was a better skater his rookie year. I don't think he was always this slow. I'd love to watch some games from a couple of years ago to see if I'm correct.

I think Schultz is going to want more than 2.5. I'd be willing to pay maybe 3.5. Honestly, I don't think Maatta gets taken, but it might be a blessing if he was.

I swear Maatta was a better skater his rookie year. I don't think he was always this slow. I'd love to watch some games from a couple of years ago to see if I'm correct.

I think Schultz is going to want more than 2.5. I'd be willing to pay maybe 3.5. Honestly, I don't think Maatta gets taken, but it might be a blessing if he was.
- madmike71

I know what you're saying. I think it might boil down to Maatta having different skating abilities in different situations. I've seen him skate nimbly and quickly in tight areas when he has the puck. But when he is defending on a rush, it looks like his feet are mired in sand. I don't know if it has to do with not being able to turn his hips quickly enough going from backward skating to forward skating or not being able to explode out of the blocks or what the deal is.

Some suggested his issues were injury-related, and that might have been part of it, but those seem well in the past now. The other thing I thought of is that at this level, other teams scout your weaknesses and figure out how to exploit them. Maybe there is a book on Maatta now so teams are looking for it and making him look bad on a regular basis.

As for Schultz, he is playing well now and played reasonably well last year, too, but remember that he has pretty much always played in a sheltered 3rd pairing role. Can he succeed defending against tougher assignments and logging increased minutes on a regular basis? Nobody knows, so I would hesitate to give him any more than $3M per. Maybe he signs another one year deal with the Pens for low-ish money to see if he can replace Daley and then cash in or if he is better suited on the bottom pairing.

One thing I will say is that last year's playoffs opened my eyes as to the importance of the 3rd pairing. A lot of series seem to come down to one team's 3rd pairing getting exploited. The top six forwards and the top four defensemen oftentimes seemed to either neutralize each other or trade blows in an even battle. But then if a team had a weak 3rd pairing and the Pens were able to get the matchup they wanted, it turned the tables while the Pens 3rd pairing could usually hold their own. I had never really noticed this before and it was a real eye-opener. It made me have crazy thoughts like, "Maybe the 3rd pairing is more important than the top 4 so long as you have at least an adequate top 4."

That's not going to happen. No chance.
- madmike71

I was 1 of the first to jump on the trade Flower wagon & push for the emergence of Muzza - I call him Muzza for facts sake!

But, when you look at this with an open (Grinder) mind, there are certain advantages & disadvantages for trading both.

Flower - Murray is the better goalie I think & looks like a player that will carry a team to a Cup with an ageing Sid & Geno down the track. Opens up cap space for the short term. Usually can be relied on in all situations - Murray that is.

Murray - will bring in a haul! Flower isn't that bad & has carried the team before - yes yes Flyers yes yes. With Jarry coming through Flowers contract probably suits that timeline.

Edit: Oh, & if we do trade Murray we will probably end up being the laughing stock of the NHL!

I swear Maatta was a better skater his rookie year. I don't think he was always this slow. I'd love to watch some games from a couple of years ago to see if I'm correct.

I think Schultz is going to want more than 2.5. I'd be willing to pay maybe 3.5. Honestly, I don't think Maatta gets taken, but it might be a blessing if he was.
- madmike71

It really could be related to his thyroid removal. Low thyroid levels are related to lower cardiovascular and muscle function. Muscle needs energy and that is limited by low thyroid.

http://www.scielo.br/scie...cript=sci_arttext&tlng=en