Ryan Wilson: Pittsburgh Is In On Jimmy Vesey But Should They Be? Pittsburgh Is In On Jimmy Vesey But Should They Be?

Ryan Wilson: Pittsburgh Is In On Jimmy Vesey But Should They Be?
Pittsburgh Is In On Jimmy Vesey But Should They Be?
- Ryan_Wilson

Nah

Hell yes you go after him. Even if he doesn't become the top 6 player he's supposed to be, it will take NOTHING to get him.

"Pittsburgh should definitely meet with Vesey and get all the information they need in order to make the best decision for their club"

You realize the Penguins are pitching Vesey, not the other way around

"Pittsburgh should definitely meet with Vesey and get all the information they need in order to make the best decision for their club"

You realize the Penguins are pitching Vesey, not the other way around
- sbroads24

Yea that type of attitude isn't going to land the kid. They've scouted him they know if he can play

I feel so dirty. I actually agree with everything RW said.

The Pens have no chance. None. Zero.
- Bruiniak

I think there's a chance it's a pretty appealing situation.

Hell yes you go after him. Even if he doesn't become the top 6 player he's supposed to be, it will take NOTHING to get him.
- drummer829

How does it take nothing? There's a substantial financial risk for a team that is always very close to the cap. If Vesey wants bonuses that will be easily attainable it could cause cap issues for a team like Pittsburgh if he produces enough to achieve the easy bonuses but doesn't produce enough to warrant being paid 3M+.

I truly believe this kid will be the next coming of Edmonton and Justin Schultz, wherever he lands. He had the right to do what he did, but I'm not sure he will amount to as much of the build up as people are playing on him. He will either be a bust or close to a bust to me when all is said and done. I have been wrong before, but I think his expectations placed on him won't be met. I'm not sure I would push, even though we need some more youth in the lineup and in the organization.

How does it take nothing? There's a substantial financial risk for a team that is always very close to the cap. If Vesey wants bonuses that will be easily attainable it could cause cap issues for a team like Pittsburgh if he produces enough to achieve the easy bonuses but doesn't produce enough to warrant being paid 3M+.
- jaydogg1974

Thought bonus money is carried forward into following season?

Thought bonus money is carried forward into following season?
- dbell646

I'm aware that it carries into the next season but I'm not aware of how that's relevant. So they sign Vesey, give him the easy to achieve bonuses that he desires and he produces just enough to get his bonuses so the Pens take a wasted hit on the cap next season, how is that a good thing or no risk?

I truly believe this kid will be the next coming of Edmonton and Justin Schultz, wherever he lands. He had the right to do what he did, but I'm not sure he will amount to as much of the build up as people are playing on him. He will either be a bust or close to a bust to me when all is said and done. I have been wrong before, but I think his expectations placed on him won't be met. I'm not sure I would push, even though we need some more youth in the lineup and in the organization.
- Oneonta Penguin

While I agree completely that I don't think he will live up to the hype, I'm not sure that not living up to the hype being placed on him amounts to being a bust. I honestly don't think there's a chance that he even comes close to the level of play being hyped on him and it's possible that he busts out by being thrust into expectations he can't achieve, I do believe the talent is there that if he's developed properly he can/will become a serviceable middle 6 player in the NHL and there's nothing wrong with that. Mishandling him could definitely lead to him busting but I think if he's used properly he can be more of a Kevin Hayes than a Justin Shultz.

I'm aware that it carries into the next season but I'm not aware of how that's relevant. So they sign Vesey, give him the easy to achieve bonuses that he desires and he produces just enough to get his bonuses so the Pens take a wasted hit on the cap next season, how is that a good thing or no risk?
- jaydogg1974

First that's awesome because he's playing well enough to earn his bonus structure and 2nd aren't we in a much better cap situation next season? And if you know in June what you are carrying against the cap it's more manageable

I'm aware that it carries into the next season but I'm not aware of how that's relevant. So they sign Vesey, give him the easy to achieve bonuses that he desires and he produces just enough to get his bonuses so the Pens take a wasted hit on the cap next season, how is that a good thing or no risk?
- jaydogg1974

You're making the assumption the Pens (and other teams) will just give him everything he wants.

The Penguins have obviously have done enough scouting on the kid to think he warrants a conversation. Some teams seem to think he's worth guaranteeing top six TOI.......although any player should know guarantee's mean nothing in pro-sports.

There's risk in virtually every high pedigree young prospect/player.

I am happy with how the Pens are handling this. They are not making a big deal about the situation. They are talking to him and letting him decide if he wants to play here or not. That is just business. And make no mistake this is a business decision and nothing else.

I have to admit I was surprised to see we already have a Hobey Baker winner on the roster (Kevin Porter).

First that's awesome because he's playing well enough to earn his bonus structure and 2nd aren't we in a much better cap situation next season? And if you know in June what you are carrying against the cap it's more manageable
- dbell646

Playing well enough to earn his bonuses is only relevant if his bonuses are set at a high enough standard, which seems to be contradictory to the reports that he wants the bonuses to be easily attainable. If his bonuses were set around him being a 25g-50pt play then I would completely agree that him getting his bonuses money would be a good thing but I feel pretty confident that if the Pens want him to produce like a top 6 forward to receive his bonuses that they have very little chance of signing him because 1 of the 6 teams is going to make it much easier for him to get paid.

Yes they are in a much better cap situation next season but that still doesn't justify overpaying a player that isn't producing up to his pay grade, taking a 3M+ cap hit for someone that provides 15g-30pts isn't a good financial move regardless of how much cap space you have.

I thought there wasn't a lot of choice on the bonuses offered. That they are pretty much set amount for certain achievements and fairly difficult to achieve. I feel like only Panarin's/McDavid's rack up a lot of bonus money. didn't we look at this year and establish plot was a long-shot to hit significant bonus money.

Age of entering NHL for a college prospects is bad use of analytics. Good players leave college earlier so their are few NHL players still in college combined with a bunch of guys who do not have pro ability. Vesey doesn't fit the analytics because he could have turned pro a long time ago but chose not to for personal reasons that have no correlation to his hockey ability.

You're making the assumption the Pens (and other teams) will just give him everything he wants.

The Penguins have obviously have done enough scouting on the kid to think he warrants a conversation. Some teams seem to think he's worth guaranteeing top six TOI.......although any player should know guarantee's mean nothing in pro-sports.

There's risk in virtually every high pedigree young prospect/player.
- madmike71

Your right and maybe I will be proven wrong to be making that assumption but it surely seems that the leading candidates are prepared to bend over backwards and give him whatever he wants.

Again my position isn't against pursuing or even adding Vesey to the roster, I think both are prudent moves if handled properly, I'm just against them jumping the gun and getting into a bidding war with other teams to add a player that is not a can't miss type prospect like Panarin was last year. If Vesey is willing to come to Pittsburgh on our terms and compete for a spot then I'm all for adding him, I'm 100% against him coming to Pittsburgh on his terms and I believe teams like Chicago & Buffalo are more willing to add him on his terms.

Hell yes you go after him. Even if he doesn't become the top 6 player he's supposed to be, it will take NOTHING to get him.
- drummer829

I don't know where people are getting this from.

There is nothing to indicate he'll be that guy.

Lots of guys have put up good numbers as 22 and 23 year olds in college and been absolutely nothing (Jeremy Welsh). Vesey is probably a bottom 6 guy at best.

Playing well enough to earn his bonuses is only relevant if his bonuses are set at a high enough standard, which seems to be contradictory to the reports that he wants the bonuses to be easily attainable. If his bonuses were set around him being a 25g-50pt play then I would completely agree that him getting his bonuses money would be a good thing but I feel pretty confident that if the Pens want him to produce like a top 6 forward to receive his bonuses that they have very little chance of signing him because 1 of the 6 teams is going to make it much easier for him to get paid.

Yes they are in a much better cap situation next season but that still doesn't justify overpaying a player that isn't producing up to his pay grade, taking a 3M+ cap hit for someone that provides 15g-30pts isn't a good financial move regardless of how much cap space you have.
- jaydogg1974

I believe 2.5 is max with rookie contract including bonus. Guess we just don't agree on this I think it would be a great signing and I hope it happens.

Playing well enough to earn his bonuses is only relevant if his bonuses are set at a high enough standard, which seems to be contradictory to the reports that he wants the bonuses to be easily attainable. If his bonuses were set around him being a 25g-50pt play then I would completely agree that him getting his bonuses money would be a good thing but I feel pretty confident that if the Pens want him to produce like a top 6 forward to receive his bonuses that they have very little chance of signing him because 1 of the 6 teams is going to make it much easier for him to get paid.

Yes they are in a much better cap situation next season but that still doesn't justify overpaying a player that isn't producing up to his pay grade, taking a 3M+ cap hit for someone that provides 15g-30pts isn't a good financial move regardless of how much cap space you have.
- jaydogg1974

Yep the bonuses are all fixed by the league, but a team can choose not to offer the player these bonuses.

If Vesey becomes a top 6 forward his likely total bonus money would be $850k.

He can earn another $2 million in bonuses if he becomes a superstar. Those bonuses basically require him to be in the running for major trophies and/or top 10 in points. Very unlikely he achieves these goals, but I would gladly pay him around $4 million in total next year if he a MVP candidate.

http://www.secondcityhock...bonuses-analysis-nhl-2016

I believe 2.5 is max with rookie contract including bonus. Guess we just don't agree on this I think it would be a great signing and I hope it happens.
- dbell646

He doesn't know what he's talking about. Vesey is a legit free option and the bonuses are set by the league and fairly difficult to achieve.

I thought there wasn't a lot of choice on the bonuses offered. That they are pretty much set amount for certain achievements and fairly difficult to achieve. I feel like only Panarin's/McDavid's rack up a lot of bonus money. didn't we look at this year and establish plot was a long-shot to hit significant bonus money.

Age of entering NHL for a college prospects is bad use of analytics. Good players leave college earlier so their are few NHL players still in college combined with a bunch of guys who do not have pro ability. Vesey doesn't fit the analytics because he could have turned pro a long time ago but chose not to for personal reasons that have no correlation to his hockey ability.
- sditulli

To my understand the financial terms of bonuses are capped but how those bonuses are achieved is negotiated between the team and the player. If a team is willing to pay him all the allowable bonus money for scoring 1 goal I'm pretty sure that is their right. This is how capfriendly defines performance bonuses.

A Performance Bonus can be given to a player in addition to their salary. Performance bonuses are only paid to the player if they meet the requirements as defined by the bonus. Performance bonuses count against the salary cap; however, a team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses by the maximum performance bonus cushion amount of 7.5% of the upper limit. Not all players are eligible for Performance Bonuses, and to receive a bonus within their contract, a player must meet one of the following criteria:

The player is on an entry-level contract.
The player has signed a one-year contract and is over 35 years old.
The player has signed a one-year contract after returning from a long-term injury (has played 400 or more games, and spent 100 or more days on the Injured Reserve in the last year of their most recent contract).

Doesn't get real technical but it's all I found on a quick search.

http://www.tsn.ca/what-do...ntract-look-like-1.324876

Mcdavid's bonsus structure looks to be exactly the same as Panarin. Can't quite verify online that these are standardized, but it seems highly unlikely that Panarin and McDavid have nearly identical bonus structures if its not standardized.

http://www.wingingitinmot...e-cba-episode-2-the-draft

Looks like I found it here.